Tuesday, 31 July 2012< ^ >
Tobias has set the subject to: XMPP WG | | IETF83 Meeting, March 28, 2012
Room Configuration

[18:12:27] Florian Zeitz joins the room
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[21:36:47] stpeter has set the subject to: XMPP WG | | IETF 84 | audio:
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[22:17:51] <hildjj> mic test?
[22:18:48] <MattJ> Audio down, or is it just me?
[22:18:52] <fippo> mh... I get a 404 error from
[22:18:57] <MattJ> I get a 404
[22:19:56] <hildjj> we're sending someone to check on it.
[22:19:58] <stpeter> hmm, I just realized that I won't be able to present any of my slides because I can't provide audio-in
[22:20:05] <hildjj> oh.
[22:20:05] <stpeter> hildjj: all the audio feeds have been delayed
[22:20:19] <stpeter> the feed will start soon, I'm sure
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[22:20:52] <stpeter> hildjj: but I have only a few slides, so one of the chairs can present them and I can type here :)
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[22:21:00] <hildjj> that will work ok, i suppose.
[22:21:05] <hildjj> i love giving slides cold.
[22:21:15] <stpeter> next time we should use Jingle ;-)
[22:21:30] <hildjj> we could also pick a random member of the audience...
[22:21:43] <m&m> I choose Adam Roach
[22:21:46] <stpeter> sure :)
[22:22:01] <Jonathan Lennox> He's the one who just went to fix the audio...
[22:22:02] <stpeter> audio working for me
[22:22:17] <stpeter> the feed is good
[22:22:41] <stpeter> the audio feed is working fine
[22:22:49] <stpeter>
[22:23:19] <stpeter> if you guys want to try that Skype thing you can poke me via petersaintandre
[22:23:22] <MattJ> wfm++
[22:23:30] <stpeter> what are they checking up front?
[22:23:36] Zash joins the room
[22:23:49] <stpeter> all the feeds have been starting late
[22:23:54] <stpeter> I'll ping the noc about that
[22:23:55] <hildjj> stpeter: ok, great.
[22:24:01] <hildjj> we're moving ahead.
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[22:25:18] <richard.barnes> i note that the even though the audio isn't working, the xmpp is :)
[22:25:44] <stpeter> richard.barnes: actually, audio seems fine here
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[22:25:50] <richard.barnes> oh good
[22:25:55] <MattJ> Yep, loud and clear
[22:26:11] <Zash> Skype :(
[22:26:12] <richard.barnes> slide: SIP-XMPP Mapping
[22:26:37] <hildjj> we'll pull stpeter in via skype when needed, but ben's doing a fine job at these.
[22:26:59] <stpeter> Zash: yeah
[22:27:30] <hildjj> mary said "that's why you wanted me taking notes"
[22:27:59] <richard.barnes> any agenda bashes?
[22:28:18] Florian Zeitz joins the room
[22:28:38] <richard.barnes> matt miller presenting on e2e
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[22:32:50] <MattJ> Who's speaking?
[22:33:02] <stpeter> Richard Barnes at the mic
[22:33:09] <hildjj> richard says: doc is on right track, way it's using jose is still a hack, but that's a jose problem.
[22:33:45] <hildjj> m&m says: problem is sending keys, richard more-or-less agrees.
[22:34:06] <hildjj> action: move jose closer to what is needed, particularly with defining key wrapping
[22:35:25] <hildjj> anything else from the room on e2e, btw?
[22:35:30] <Florian Zeitz> MIC: So, I'm not very up to date on the JOSE discussion, but do we have any chance of getting around base64url (which is different from the base64 we use everywhere else) and possibly even JSON.
[22:35:59] <richard.barnes> what do you mean getting around JSON?
[22:36:22] <stpeter> well, JOSE is not going to discard JSON :)
[22:36:33] <Florian Zeitz> Well, ideally not having to parse it, but I'm aware that JOSE is very much JSON
[22:37:20] <hildjj> anything else?
[22:38:33] <richard.barnes> florian: i'm hoping to remove the base64url requirements from JOSE and specify it as pure JSON. that way XMPP could decide to serialize it with whatever encoding they want. but there are others that disagree (notably the document author).
[22:39:14] <richard.barnes> matt presenting on server federation
[22:41:21] <Florian Zeitz> richard.barnes, I noticed they depend on the base64 encoding mostly to get something that will not change due to parsers reserializing. I sort of get that, but it's really unfortunate for XMPP having two parsers, and then on top of that to base64 variants :/
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[22:45:56] MattJ hears fippo smiling to himself
[22:46:06] <fippo> hildjj: I think that's a matter of services like enforcing basic 6125 and rejecting things like certificates which have been expired for two years
[22:46:44] <MattJ> I agree it's something of a deployment policy issue whether to allow "insecure" dialback
[22:47:17] <stpeter> MattJ: indeed
[22:47:28] <fippo> mattj: it's works with and even has an certificate which is expired. it's not broken, we don't need to fix it
[22:48:43] <stpeter> fippo: force-tls is, IMHO, more likely initially for client-to-server
[22:48:55] <richard.barnes> florian: agreed. but they actually don't need all the base64 they're doing, so it may be that it can be reduced
[22:49:59] <MattJ> Dialback has the same issue
[22:50:21] <MattJ> Well... I guess it's slightly better there
[22:51:30] <fippo> hildjj: I still don't understand why you want me to give hints on how you should check my identity. I do not even know what proof types you implement and even if we had a common prooftype (like 6125) I can not be sure that you can use it to verify my identity.
[22:52:35] <MattJ> 'POSH'?
[22:52:57] <stpeter> PKIX Over Secure HTTP
[22:53:06] <MattJ> How obvious :)
[22:53:28] <stpeter> MattJ:
[22:53:32] <MattJ> Thanks
[22:53:47] <hildjj> fippo: i want to give you hints on how you can check *my* identity.
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[22:55:05] <stpeter> to Wes's point, I think we would prefer DANE
[22:55:07] <hildjj> any issues from here? i missed a chunk of log?
[22:55:11] <fippo> hildjj: but you don't know about my policy. it's nice as hints (and we might use the bidirectional stream features stuff that dave cridland raised for that), but it's no more than a hint which might be ignored
[22:55:11] <stpeter> (longer term)
[22:56:01] <MattJ> I'm curious to
[22:56:07] <MattJ> But I need to read more of the specs
[22:56:15] <hildjj> fippo: agree that it's just hints.
[22:56:44] <MattJ> +1
[22:56:49] <stpeter> not for mic, I agree with Richard that we need to do another round on the specs
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[22:57:32] <Zash> .
[22:57:37] <MattJ> :D
[22:57:44] <MattJ> Good here
[22:57:50] <Zash> :D
[23:02:42] <hildjj> y
[23:02:45] <richard.barnes> questions for peter?
[23:03:06] <MattJ> +1
[23:03:07] <Zash> :D
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[23:05:31] <MattJ> Is the problem perhaps only *mixing* of scripts?
[23:05:56] <richard.barnes> MattJ: for mic?
[23:05:57] <MattJ> i.e. I might allow an entirely cyrillic username, but not a part latin, part cyrillic one
[23:06:00] <MattJ> I guess, yes
[23:06:03] <MattJ> Thanks
[23:06:42] <MattJ> It sounds easier than the confusables checks
[23:06:50] <MattJ> (no need to mic)
[23:09:35] <Zash> .SE only allows ascii + swedish chars and another alphabet
[23:09:48] <stpeter> Zash: yes, that's what I would expect
[23:10:55] <hildjj> that's bernard
[23:13:02] <MattJ> Generally I would imagine confusion between symbols of the same script rare-to-nonexistent
[23:13:19] <Zash> Hah
[23:13:26] <stpeter> ? ;-)
[23:13:41] <hildjj> confusables gets that, peter
[23:13:43] <MattJ> I just dug up the last impersonator's JID: ѕ
[23:13:43] <richard.barnes> stpeter: l==1 in confusables table
[23:14:10] <MattJ> Indistinguishable in my font
[23:14:17] <richard.barnes> MattJ: me too
[23:14:27] <Zash>
[23:14:28] <m&m> Joe should sing
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[23:14:39] <stpeter> right, much of this depends on fonts on the device
[23:14:59] <m&m> /nod
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[23:15:16] <MattJ> Thanks
[23:15:23] <stpeter> yay, an early ending :)
[23:15:46] <stpeter> now we need to finish up the PRECIS work so we can move on with our lives :)
[23:16:03] <hildjj> stpeter: +1
[23:16:17] <MattJ> The PRECIS ѕeѕѕion is tomorrow?
[23:16:20] fippo prepares to throw a xep-220 diff at stpeter
[23:16:20] <stpeter> yes
[23:16:38] <Florian Zeitz> stpeter, just FYI, I had some comments on 6122bis, based on rereading it today. Would you slap me if I've not send them to the list by next week (because I'm busy until Friday)
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[23:16:44] <stpeter> MattJ:
[23:16:47] <yone> Tomorrow's Afternoon session II (1510-1710)
[23:16:51] <stpeter> Florian Zeitz: no hurry
[23:16:53] <MattJ> yone, thanks
[23:17:03] <Florian Zeitz> stpeter, no, just I *will* forget ;)
[23:17:11] <stpeter> heh ok I will ping you :)
[23:17:15] <MattJ> Florian Zeitz, you read it - I don't think anyone can blame you for that :)
[23:18:46] <Florian Zeitz> MattJ, there is considerably longer and more confusing things out there. Most of the brainfsck is in the precis documents
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[23:18:57] <stpeter> Florian Zeitz: if you are able to read and comment on the PRECIS specs, that would be great :)
[23:19:17] <stpeter> ok, I need to go, bbl (if I can get the Internet access working at my new house!)
[23:19:38] <Florian Zeitz> good luck :)
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[23:19:49] <stpeter> :)
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[23:21:27] <MattJ> Ok, JOSE is also tomorrow
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[23:24:37] <Florian Zeitz> BTW, fun story nobody cares about: I came out of Aachen main station, from a delayed train. Managed to get the stream for this meeting running on my phone, and the first thing I heard was "we're trying to get the audio streams running"
[23:25:08] <MattJ> :)
[23:25:47] <Florian Zeitz> I did manage to get home before the meeting actually started :P
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