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[07:19:55] Brian Kardell waves from US east coast
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[07:20:39] <ekinnear> Hi all, I’ll be your Jabber scribe, please prefix anything you want relayed at the mic with “mic:”
[07:20:39] <Chris Lemmons> /waves from Colorado
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[07:20:46] <Chris Lemmons> Will do.
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[07:20:57] <ted.h> The blue sheets are in motion
[07:20:58] Dan York waves from US east coast
[07:21:07] <ted.h> Thank you fine gentleman
[07:21:19] Brian Kardell wonders if his mic is on, or how to tell - doesn't see it in the ui
[07:21:50] <Jonathan Lennox> Meetecho: can you help Brian?
[07:22:00] <Jonathan Lennox> (If you type "Meetecho" in the chat they will appear.)
[07:22:13] <Dan York> Brian - I don't see it either, and haven't for other sessions.  I'm using Firefox.
[07:22:27] <Meetecho> Brian Kardell: did you join as Participant or Observer?
[07:22:38] <Brian Kardell> participant
[07:22:42] <Meetecho> Participant is what you need to be, if you want to chime in
[07:22:43] <Dan York> Participant for me
[07:22:55] <Meetecho> But mic won't appear until you use the hand icon to join the queue, and chairs approve you
[07:23:12] <Dan York> Right... but the controls to turn off audio and video aren't visible.
[07:23:13] <Brian Kardell> great, thanks, that is precisely what I wanted to know
[07:23:34] <Meetecho> Dan York: you're muted by default, you're not sending anything
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[07:23:49] <Meetecho> The video you see of yourself in the UI is a local preview
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[07:24:23] <Dan York> Understood... I just wanted to shut off the video entirely :-)
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[07:24:39] <Meetecho> Dan York: then you need to switch to Obverver, there's a switch under your name
[07:24:50] <Dan York> Ah, gotcha.  Thanks.
[07:24:51] <Meetecho> You can switch back to Participant later on
[07:24:53] <Chris Lemmons> I was looking for that setting and gave up. I put a piece of cardboard over my camera. :D
[07:25:12] Martin Thomson joins the room
[07:25:15] <Meetecho> When you're participant, we ask for the camera right away since we'll need it when you're granted the floor
[07:25:27] <Meetecho> But we don't send it anywhere until that happens
[07:25:38] <Dan York> Okay, thanks for explaining.
[07:25:41] <Meetecho> It stays in your browser
[07:25:45] Martin Thomson has set the subject to: not to be confused with webpack (https://webpack.js.org/)
[07:26:08] <ted.h> The ISOC community network landing page is: https://www.internetsociety.org/issues/community-networks/ for folks who want to see it.
[07:26:16] <ekinnear> Matt Johnson presenting
[07:26:34] Eric Kinnear joins the room
[07:26:40] <ted.h> (This is not what Matt is presenting, just of interest)
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[07:28:02] <ekinnear> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-wpack-community-networking-01
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[07:31:34] <Pete Resnick> Is there anything in the DTN work that applies to what these folks are doing?
[07:32:23] <ted.h> @Pete You mean the Bundle protocol specifically or the basic ideas of delay tolerance?
[07:33:03] <Pete Resnick> Well, I was thinking of the bundle stuff, but I guess I should mean more generally.
[07:33:54] <ted.h> The short answer is that the ideas can help with cache fill and peer-to-peer use cases.  
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[07:34:49] <Chris Lemmons> Sounds like a local pre-seeded caching proxy.
[07:35:32] <Eric Kinnear_9852> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-wpack-amp-use-cases-00
[07:35:41] <Eric Kinnear_9852> Devin Mullins presenting
[07:35:52] <Brian Kardell> thanks for listening folks - sorry for the false "I think we're done"s -- it's late here :)
[07:36:23] <Chris Lemmons> Thanks for talking. It's late bordering on early here. :)
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[07:36:41] <Dan York> Brian - thanks for sharing that use case
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[07:37:34] <Chris Lemmons> Aye. If WPACK doesn't work out for your use case, a local caching proxy, pre-seeded with content, might satisfy your use case in a slightly different way.
[07:40:27] <Eric Kinnear_9852> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-wpack-bundle-sharing-00
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[07:45:56] <Eric Kinnear_9852> Mark Nottingham at the mic
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[07:49:36] <Chris Lemmons> ... I typed too slow. :)
[07:51:49] <Eric Kinnear_9852> (Even if not typing quickly, happy to relay pending the queue not being closed) :)
[07:52:11] <Chris Lemmons> I think others have handled my observations.
[07:52:29] <Chris Lemmons> The room seems to have sufficient skepticism about some of the problem space.
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[07:52:54] Brian Kardell keeps getting sleepily confused at references to 'Brian's use case' that is , in fact, a different Brian
[07:53:10] <Eric Kinnear_9852> 👍
[07:53:15] <ted.h> There's also a Brian in line, so brace yourself.
[07:53:24] Brian Kardell lol
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[07:54:09] <Pete Resnick> I think she's right that the community networks is the better base case architecturally. I wonder if the commercial motivation is for the other cases.
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[07:54:52] <Chris Lemmons> I'm relatively confident that I know the answer to that. :/
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[07:58:45] <Chris Lemmons> Anybody else having audio or video trouble?
[07:59:20] <ekinnear> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-wpack-wpack-proposed-solution-01
[08:00:53] <Dan York> Chris - audio and video are working fine for me
[08:01:01] <Chris Lemmons> Ok.
[08:01:27] <Chris Lemmons> We're in the maintenance window for my cable operator. It's probably that.
[08:01:36] <Chris Lemmons> Thanks
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[08:10:59] <Dan York> I did. read the workshop report :-)
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[08:13:52] <Chris Lemmons> <- hopping in mic line...
[08:14:30] <ekinnear> Ack
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[08:17:07] <Eric Kinnear_9852> Next up, what am I saying at this mic :)
[08:17:48] <Chris Lemmons> mic: This work seems designed directly for the Google AMP presentation. The other use cases appear to be trying to pick up on a solution that seems to solve 80% of their use case. The question is really whether we want to take on those extra 20%s of work. I think we should start with the basic work and if we discover that we want to and can expand the scope, we can consider rechartering at that time.
[08:18:15] <Eric Kinnear_9852> Thanks
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[08:21:27] <Chris Lemmons> mic: It would make me sad, too. But I'd rather succeed at one thing than fail at lots of things. If we can do the building block thing, I might be persuaded.
[08:22:14] <Eric Kinnear_9852> Ended the queue, but I believe Ted is here to see your response
[08:22:24] <ted.h> Karaoke time!
[08:22:29] <Dan York> What was the answer to the applicability to the archiving case?
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[08:23:42] <joehall> yes
[08:23:47] <joehall> (was the answer)
[08:23:51] <Dan York> thx
[08:23:58] <Meetecho> Is the session over?
[08:24:02] <joehall> no
[08:24:06] <Brian> nope, contining
[08:24:12] <Brian> continuing even
[08:24:16] <Meetecho> Sorry, was confused by chairs swapping :D
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[08:24:48] <joehall> @dan the trick is right now they have 7-day validity, and a la ESCAPE report, it’s going to be pretty hard to support stuff for years
[08:25:02] <joehall> we love you @meetecho
[08:25:13] <Meetecho> :)
[08:26:21] <joehall> this hotel moves a ton of freaking plates
[08:26:43] <ted.h> @joehall  It's a religious observance, as I understand it.
[08:27:01] <Brian Kardell> depending on your definition of web applications, this seems like it could be a true statement. perhaps if it we simply more explicit in meaning?
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[08:35:11] <Chris Lemmons> mic: Perhaps we want to separate the security and privacy steps? Or have some language around which properties we consider most important?
[08:35:26] <Chris Lemmons> Nevermind, we've moved on.
[08:35:59] <Eric Kinnear_9852> Okay, let me know whenever
[08:36:05] <Chris Lemmons> Thanks.
[08:37:40] <Chris Lemmons> It's worth noting that newspapers have monitized ads without knowing which pages of the newspaper people read or how many people read each page. Estimates have been sufficient for contracts and monitization in the past and might again be in the future.
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[08:42:02] <Martin Thomson> To the last point: discovery needs to be clearly articulated in the draft - discovery is challenging and likely contentious, so it might be that we decide that it isn't going to happen, or that only a very narrow set of cases is covered, but it needs to be clear.
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[08:43:50] <Yoav Weiss> hum
[08:43:51] <Chris Lemmons> Hum yes.
[08:43:54] <Dan York> Hum yes for understanding
[08:44:02] <Yoav Weiss> hum
[08:44:03] <Chris Lemmons> Hum yes.
[08:44:04] <Dan York> Hum yes for 1a
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[08:44:39] <Dan York> Hum yes for 2
[08:44:40] <Eric Kinnear_9852> (2)
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[08:44:43] <Yoav Weiss> hum yes
[08:44:45] <Chris Lemmons> Hum yes for 2.
[08:44:50] <Eric Kinnear_9852> 3 from jabber
[08:44:54] <Chris Lemmons> Hum yes for 2.
[08:44:55] <Eric Kinnear_9852> (for yes)
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[08:45:00] <Eric Kinnear_9852> (3)
[08:45:01] <Dan York> Hum yes on 3
[08:45:01] <Chris Lemmons> Hum yes for 3.
[08:45:29] <Chris Lemmons> Hand up for reviewing docs.
[08:45:35] <Dan York> Would review docs
[08:45:48] <Eric Kinnear_9852> (4)
[08:45:51] <Yoav Weiss> hum yes for 4
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[08:46:02] <Chris Lemmons> Hum yes for for deliverables...
[08:46:25] <Dan York> weak hum yes for 4 (because it seems deliverables are still evolving)
[08:46:48] <joehall> weak hum?
[08:46:50] <joehall> lol
[08:46:59] <Dan York> :-)
[08:47:06] <Dan York> Trying to show volume in text
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[08:47:30] <Chris Lemmons> Thanks to the jabber relay!
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[08:47:38] <Chris Lemmons> Much appreciated.
[08:47:42] <Eric Kinnear_9852> That's all, thanks everyone!
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[08:47:54] <Dan York> Thank you, Eric!
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