Monday, March 21, 2022< ^ >
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

[11:37:59] Meetecho joins the room
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[11:45:03] WU, YI-TING_web_690 joins the room
[11:45:03] Cullen Jennings_web_892 joins the room
[11:45:03] Lorenzo Miniero_web_338 joins the room
[11:45:41] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_338> I wonder if I'll be the only one on-site in this big room! :D
[11:45:56] alexamirante joins the room
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[11:58:18] Sergio Garcia Murillo_web_988 joins the room
[11:58:46] <Sergio Garcia Murillo_web_988> hi everyone!
[11:58:54] Dedlyne Cloiseau_web_698 joins the room
[11:58:54] <Juliusz Chroboczek_web_441> Hello.
[11:58:57] <Simon Romano_web_617> Hello!
[11:59:33] Murray Kucherawy_web_197 joins the room
[11:59:35] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_338> Hi all
[11:59:39] <Juliusz Chroboczek_web_441> Lorenzo, I'll do my best t put silly comments in the chat so you don't feel alone :-)
[11:59:46] Mathis Engelbart_web_918 joins the room
[11:59:47] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_338> :D
[12:00:01] Adam Roach_web_849 joins the room
[12:00:16] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_338> We're 5 in the room now, we're getting warmer
[12:00:19] Suhas Nandakumar_web_566 joins the room
[12:00:25] Ali Begen_web_500 joins the room
[12:00:33] Ludovic Roux_web_274 joins the room
[12:00:41] Trent Adams_web_364 joins the room
[12:00:48] <Dedlyne Cloiseau_web_698> Hi everyone / Bonjour tout le monde / Greetings from Haiti
[12:01:04] Mayumi Ohsugi_web_814 joins the room
[12:02:02] David Baldassin_web_585 joins the room
[12:02:22] <Murray Kucherawy_web_197> Can I do a quick audio test?
[12:03:05] <Juliusz Chroboczek_web_441> Wow, there are actual *people* in the room.
[12:03:33] Dedlyne Cloiseau_web_698 leaves the room
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[12:03:53] Bernard Aboba_web_463 joins the room
[12:03:55] Ines Robles_web_299 joins the room
[12:04:10] Ted Hardie_web_891 joins the room
[12:04:55] <Adam Roach_web_849> We need Sean and Nils mannequins to put in the chair chairs. :)
[12:05:43] Jonathan Lennox_web_321 joins the room
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[12:06:31] <Sergio Garcia Murillo_web_988> a bit of echo from the room
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[12:07:09] <Spencer Dawkins_web_133> Adam - but certainly not Sean and Nils blow-up dolls, right?
[12:07:09] Giles Heron_web_212 joins the room
[12:07:25] <Juliusz Chroboczek_web_441> Famous last words :-)
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[12:08:08] <Jonathan Lennox_web_321> Sergio is very backlit
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[12:08:17] <Juliusz Chroboczek_web_441> @Meetecho, the echo from the room is pretty bad.
[12:08:54] Youngkwon Lim_web_440 joins the room
[12:09:42] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_338> I only see chair slides and my slides in the meeting materials
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[12:10:10] <Ted Hardie_web_891> That matches what I see, and I just reloaded the meeting materials.
[12:10:11] <Jonathan Lennox_web_321> I see two decks - chair slides, and impelementation in janus.  Same in the datatracker meeting maeterials
[12:10:11] <Simon Romano_web_617> They should be there now...
[12:10:26] Spencer Dawkins_web_590 joins the room
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[12:14:40] <Ted Hardie_web_891> These are still not visible in the room.  Perhaps just talk to the points, given that we are now 15 minutes into the hour?
[12:15:07] Qin Wu_web_508 joins the room
[12:15:11] <Meetecho> Juliusz, echo should be reduced now, please let us know if it's still bad
[12:15:56] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_338> Slides need to be reimported, if they were updated
[12:16:10] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_338> I can try to do it now, if they were updated on the datatracker too
[12:16:38] Nick Banks_web_185 leaves the room
[12:16:45] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_338> I've just impoirted them again
[12:16:56] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_338> There should be two chair slides now, one of them should be the new one
[12:17:07] Cheol-Min Kim_web_267 joins the room
[12:17:48] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_338> Yay!
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[12:19:01] <Nils Ohlmeier_web_972> Sorry I got hit by the Chrome loosing permissions bug.
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[12:20:44] <Sean Turner_web_171> Apologies - that was pretty much a chair problem ;)
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[12:24:01] <Adam Roach_web_849> FWIW, this all looks right to me. The bit about not sending etags in other methods (e.g., DELETE) is more of a "there's no reason to" rather than "should not," but everything else is fine.
[12:24:33] <Jonathan Lennox_web_917> Is there a difference between no if-match and if-match: "*"?
[12:24:52] Cheng-Kang Chu_web_903 joins the room
[12:25:49] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_338> I had the same doubt (mentioned in my slides later)
[12:28:09] <Juliusz Chroboczek_web_441> I still feel the restart/candidate distinction should be explicit in the request.  It would allow the server to detect inconsistencies, and make everything easier to debug.
[12:28:16] <Adam Roach_web_849> From the HTTP perspective, there's a difference in that "If-Match: *" requires that the corresponding resource already exists. That seems correct for our scenario.
[12:28:35] <Ted Hardie_web_891> I thought if-match matched eTags with strong matching (byte for byte).  Wouldn't that mean "*" would only match the literal *?
[12:29:06] <Ted Hardie_web_891> Ah, Adam's answer corrects this impression.
[12:29:11] Cheng-Kang Chu_web_903 leaves the room
[12:32:07] Ryan Cross_web_472 leaves the room
[12:34:09] <Jonathan Lennox_web_917> To type up my issue in case I was unclear at the mic - if you have more than one ice-restart PATCH request in flight at once, it'll be unclear to the server which one was sent first.  This ambiguity is bad; one simple solution would simply be to forbid this, but as Sergio points out that might be bad if your device fell off its network (because it might not get the response to the first ice-restart).  If so we'd need another way to resolve the ambiguity.
[12:34:52] <Juliusz Chroboczek_web_441> Jonathan, Ted, the behaviour of "*" is specified in RFC 7232 Section 3.1.
[12:35:01] <Adam Roach_web_849> I am stealing the word "umptysquat" for my future use.
[12:35:14] Ines Robles_web_299 leaves the room
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[12:38:39] <Jonathan Lennox_web_917> I've raised my ICE restart issue on the github repo
[12:39:19] <Nils Ohlmeier_web_972> Thank you Jonathan
[12:42:53] <Juliusz Chroboczek_web_441> Fine with me.
[12:43:31] <Adam Roach_web_849> To be fair, the issue that Julisz raises has bedeveled HTTP users pretty much since the early '90's. I don't think we can fix it in here. :)
[12:44:17] Suhas Nandakumar_web_566 leaves the room
[12:44:24] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_338> :D
[12:46:27] <Adam Roach_web_849> Lorenzo's mic is way to quiet here
[12:46:33] <Adam Roach_web_849> s/to/too/
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[12:46:47] <Juliusz Chroboczek_web_441> Error handling in general.  It's always depressing when you finish a first prototype and then start doing the error handling.
[12:47:07] <Juliusz Chroboczek_web_441> There's a whole language designed around the premise that you should crash instead of handling errors (Erlang).
[12:49:49] Youngkwon Lim_web_675 leaves the room
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[12:56:06] <Adam Roach_web_849> As a footnote to what Lorenzo says about OBS -- they're planning on adding WHIP support this year, with a target of Q3; see
[12:57:08] <Adam Roach_web_849> (This is the main OBS project rather than the Millicast fork)
[12:59:18] <Sean Turner_web_691> great!
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