IETF
weirds@jabber.ietf.org
Wednesday, 1 August 2012< ^ >
cm-msk has set the subject to: WEIRDS BoF at IETF 83
Room Configuration

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[16:03:17] <Andrew Sullivan> I'm taking minutes. Is anyone scribing here or handling remote questions/
[16:03:18] <Andrew Sullivan> ?
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[16:04:43] <matthijs> I am
[16:04:59] <matthijs> I am scribing
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[16:05:08] <matthijs> Slide: Document Organization
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[16:05:54] <matthijs> Agenda: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/agenda
[16:06:09] <matthijs> Main Slide Deck: http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/84/slides/slides-84-weirds-0.pdf
[16:06:22] <matthijs> Andy Newton at the mic
[16:07:07] Francisco Arias joins the room
[16:07:33] <matthijs> Jim Galvin at the mic
[16:08:16] <matthijs> John Klensin
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[16:09:29] <matthijs> Slide: Supporting Objects: "MUST" support
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[16:11:12] <matthijs> Pete Resnick at the mic
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[16:12:26] <matthijs> Andrew Sullivan at the mic
[16:12:46] <matthijs> Peter Koch at the mic
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[16:14:36] <matthijs> ? at the mic
[16:14:50] <Andrew Sullivan> Marco Sanz
[16:15:01] <Andrew Sullivan> (I think I might just have misspelled his name, though)
[16:15:23] <matthijs> It's better than I could come up with ;-)
[16:15:32] <matthijs> (so thanks for the addition)
[16:15:43] <matthijs> John Klensin at the mic
[16:16:44] <matthijs> Chris Wright at the mic
[16:19:28] <matthijs> Chris Wright volunteers to rewrite the text on Supporting Objects
[16:19:38] <matthijs> on to slide "Service Differentiation"
[16:20:36] <matthijs> Presentation on Authentication Issues: http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/84/slides/slides-84-weirds-1.pdf
[16:20:52] <matthijs> by Sean Shen
[16:21:15] <matthijs> Slide Backgrounds
[16:21:42] <matthijs> slide: Discussions in the Mailing List
[16:22:09] Olaf Kolkman joins the room
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[16:23:40] <matthijs> slide: Questions for Confirmations, Concensus or Discussion
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[16:25:49] <matthijs> slide 3. Requirements, service diff...
[16:26:29] <matthijs> slide 4. Data granularity in authentication
[16:26:56] <matthijs> slide 5.
[16:27:16] Andy joins the room
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[16:28:12] <matthijs> slide 6. 7.
[16:29:25] <matthijs> Discussion time 15 minutes
[16:29:51] <matthijs> Ray Bellis at the mic
[16:30:21] <matthijs> Pete Resnick at the mic
[16:30:38] <wseltzer> +1
[16:30:51] <matthijs> Shean Shen comments
[16:31:09] <matthijs> Pete Resnick again
[16:32:33] <matthijs> Andy Newton on the mic
[16:33:28] <matthijs> Chris again on the mic
[16:34:16] <matthijs> Peter Koch at the mic
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[16:36:31] <matthijs> Shaen Shen comments
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[16:37:30] <matthijs> ? at the mic
[16:37:50] <resnick> Alessandro Vesely
[16:37:58] barryleiba joins the room
[16:38:08] <matthijs> John Levine at the mic
[16:40:51] <matthijs> andrew sullivan at the mic
[16:41:40] <matthijs> shaen shen comments
[16:41:40] barryleiba leaves the room
[16:42:22] <resnick> I think Sean uses "Sean" for his English name and "Shuo" for his Chinese name.
[16:42:58] <matthijs> sorry for the misspellings
[16:43:17] <resnick> No worries; just adding to the record.
[16:44:12] <matthijs> alex at the mic
[16:44:18] <SM> OAuth is a HTTP mechanism nowadays?
[16:46:00] <matthijs> chris answers at the mic about oauth
[16:46:10] <matthijs> john klensin at the mic
[16:47:51] <miek.gieben> matthijs at the mic
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[16:49:13] <matthijs> peter koch at the mic
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[16:50:28] <matthijs> Olaf summarizes
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[16:51:42] <matthijs> Alex at the mic
[16:52:09] <ray> IMHO, no authentication methods that require multiple HTTP round-trips, or call outs to third parties...
[16:52:13] <matthijs> Andy Newton at the mic
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[16:53:46] <matthijs> John Klensin at the mic
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[16:55:59] <matthijs> Alex at the mic
[16:56:23] <matthijs> Alex is Alexander Mayhrofer
[16:56:30] <matthijs> Marco Sanz at the mic
[16:56:52] <ray> +1 to what Marco said
[16:56:58] <miek.gieben> indeed
[16:56:59] <matthijs> Allesandro Vesely at the mic
[16:57:15] ykjung joins the room
[16:58:06] <matthijs> though cookies is not really RESTful, we might have to think about what's more important: keep being RESTful or fix the goals
[16:58:16] <matthijs> (not necessary in favor of cookies)
[16:58:22] <matthijs> Chris Wright at the mic
[17:00:08] <matthijs> John, me and Pete were at the mic
[17:00:20] <matthijs> Pete asks opinion of the wg chairs
[17:01:11] <ray> oh god no, not tokens! ;-)
[17:01:17] <Andrew Sullivan> hehe
[17:01:35] <matthijs> Andy Newton at the mic
[17:02:16] <matthijs> next slide from the Main Slide Deck: RESTful Versioning and Exxtensions
[17:02:25] <matthijs> Andy Newton presentation
[17:02:26] Chris leaves the room
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[17:03:25] <matthijs> Slides: http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/84/slides/slides-84-weirds-3.pdf
[17:03:57] <matthijs> already at slide 3 "Protocol" Versioning
[17:04:21] <ray> how can you make multiple versions of {"key":"value", ...} ?
[17:04:26] tlr leaves the room
[17:04:53] <matthijs> slide 4: Common Data Structures
[17:05:33] <matthijs> slide 5: Basic Extensibility via Naming
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[17:06:12] <matthijs> slide 6
[17:06:40] <matthijs> slide 7
[17:07:18] <matthijs> slide 8
[17:07:45] <matthijs> slide 9: Prefix Circus
[17:07:59] jinjian joins the room
[17:08:52] <matthijs> Alexander Mayrhofer at the mic
[17:08:56] Chris leaves the room
[17:09:12] <matthijs> Ray Bellis at the mic
[17:09:54] <matthijs> Murray clarifies
[17:10:03] <matthijs> Barry at the mic
[17:10:17] <matthijs> Andrew Sullivan at the mic
[17:11:10] <matthijs> Olaf comments
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[17:12:09] <matthijs> confused Andrew at the mic
[17:12:39] <matthijs> and Olaf again
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[17:12:56] <matthijs> Andy Newton summons Andrew Sullivan
[17:14:14] <ray> Andrew appears with a flash and a puff of smoke...
[17:14:45] <matthijs> too bad there is no remote video ;)
[17:15:36] <matthijs> Chris Wright at the mic
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[17:19:04] <matthijs> Marco Sanz at the mic
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[17:20:35] <matthijs> Olaf asks Andy for his opinion
[17:20:43] <matthijs> no strong opinion, let's move on
[17:21:00] <matthijs> next slide in the Main Slide Deck: URI Templates
[17:21:23] <matthijs> presented by Murray Kucherawy (one of the chairs)
[17:22:40] christoffer.holmstedt joins the room
[17:23:22] <matthijs> Andy Newton at the mic
[17:24:08] <matthijs> in discussion with Murray
[17:24:18] <matthijs> John Levine at the mic
[17:25:40] <matthijs> ? from LACNIC at the mic
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[17:26:16] <Francisco Arias> Arturo Servin from LACNIC
[17:26:17] <matthijs> Alexander Mayrhofer at the mic
[17:27:27] <matthijs> Murray answers
[17:27:51] <matthijs> Chris Wright at the mic
[17:28:49] <matthijs> Arguing that with REST you should be able to follow links
[17:29:17] <matthijs> that is the Connectedness property, but I am not sure it it is the most fundamental property
[17:29:41] <matthijs> ? at the mic
[17:29:52] <matthijs> (I am bad in names)
[17:30:06] <Francisco Arias> that was Byron Ellacott
[17:30:06] <bje> Byron Ellacott
[17:30:09] <bje> :-)
[17:30:44] <matthijs> next slide from the Main Slide Deck: Object Inventory
[17:31:54] <matthijs> presentation by Ning Kong
[17:31:56] <matthijs> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/84/slides/slides-84-weirds-4.pdf
[17:32:52] <matthijs> we are at slide 3: Background
[17:33:13] <resnick> We have multiple elephants in the room? How very crowded! ;)
[17:33:25] <matthijs> slide 4: Methodology
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[17:34:54] <matthijs> slide 5: Methodology (2)
[17:36:43] <matthijs> slide 6: Analysis
[17:37:05] <matthijs> slide 7: Analysis (2)
[17:39:08] <matthijs> slide 8: Analysis (3)
[17:39:29] <matthijs> slide 9: Anaylis (4)
[17:39:31] <bje> what did the other 4.84% of responses give, if it did not contain "Domain Name" ?
[17:39:36] <matthijs> slide 10: Analysis (5)
[17:39:38] <bje> (not for mic)
[17:40:23] <matthijs> slide 11: Analysis (6)
[17:40:42] <matthijs> lot of Analysis slides
[17:41:22] <matthijs> slide 12
[17:41:55] <matthijs> slide 13: Analysis on Admin Contact
[17:42:19] <matthijs> slide 14 (tech) and 15 (billing)
[17:42:42] <matthijs> slide 16 (name server & registrar)
[17:43:06] <matthijs> slide 17 (top 10)
[17:43:43] <matthijs> slide 18
[17:43:57] <matthijs> slide 19 (top 20)
[17:44:17] <matthijs> slide 20 (part of extensions)
[17:44:25] <matthijs> oops too fast
[17:44:45] Chris leaves the room
[17:45:09] <matthijs> slide 20 now
[17:45:37] <matthijs> slide 21 (limitations)
[17:48:04] <matthijs> slide 22 (final slide)
[17:48:20] ray leaves the room
[17:48:27] <matthijs> Additional comment by Olaf
[17:49:56] <matthijs> Chris again
[17:50:57] <Andrew Sullivan> Just to clarify: I was intending to say that we're planning to use it for domain names, but not at the TLD.
[17:51:08] <matthijs> Olaf interfers
[17:51:22] <Andrew Sullivan> Dyn has a large number of registrations of effectively "public" registrations under, say, dyndns.org
[17:51:35] <Andrew Sullivan> and we get LE and other types of queries about those registrations, too
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[17:53:37] <matthijs> Alex Mayrhofer at the mic
[17:53:45] Chris joins the room
[17:54:38] <matthijs> Andy Newton at the mic
[17:57:23] <matthijs> Peter Koch at the mic
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[18:00:26] <matthijs> John Levine at the mic
[18:01:49] <matthijs> Pete Resnick at the mic
[18:04:57] <matthijs> Byron at the mic
[18:05:26] <matthijs> Chris Wright at the mic
[18:06:49] <matthijs> next topic: Discovery
[18:07:13] <matthijs> Next steps and specifics are being dropped from the agenda
[18:07:26] ykjung joins the room
[18:07:45] <matthijs> John Levine presents http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/84/slides/slides-84-weirds-2.pdf
[18:07:55] <matthijs> slide 3 already
[18:08:20] <matthijs> slide 4
[18:08:54] <matthijs> 5
[18:09:34] <matthijs> 6,7
[18:09:58] <matthijs> 8
[18:11:00] <matthijs> 9
[18:11:22] <matthijs> 10
[18:11:46] <matthijs> 11
[18:12:16] <matthijs> 12
[18:12:50] <matthijs> 13
[18:12:57] <Andrew Sullivan> One of the problems with IRIS was supposed to be that it used NAPTR records, I will just point out.
[18:13:40] <matthijs> and beep
[18:14:18] <matthijs> 14
[18:15:20] <matthijs> 15
[18:15:46] <matthijs> 16
[18:16:24] <matthijs> 17
[18:16:35] <matthijs> 18
[18:16:53] ray joins the room
[18:16:57] <ray> URI record?
[18:17:10] <matthijs> 19
[18:17:45] <Andrew Sullivan> URI records have a code point, but have never actually been standardized (or anyway, the document wasn't published when I looked 2 weeks ago)
[18:17:47] amreesh.phokeer joins the room
[18:17:53] <matthijs> a new RRtype is definitely worth considering, imo
[18:18:01] <ray> [thanks, Andrew]
[18:18:27] <matthijs> back to slide 11 (the options so far)
[18:18:29] <Andrew Sullivan> if our problem is that people can't look up NAPTR, then a new RRTYPE is even less desirable
[18:18:49] <matthijs> true
[18:18:56] <matthijs> dismiss that comment ;)
[18:19:01] <matthijs> John Klensin at the mic
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[18:20:47] <SM> Oh that was clear enough:)
[18:21:02] <matthijs> Peter Koch at the mic
[18:22:39] <matthijs> John Crane at the mic
[18:23:01] SM leaves the room
[18:23:09] <suzworldwide> Crain, actually
[18:23:29] <matthijs> Byron Ellacot at the mic
[18:23:51] SM joins the room
[18:23:53] <matthijs> thanks suzworldwide for the correction
[18:24:36] <matthijs> Chris Wright at the mic
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[18:25:49] <matthijs> John Klensin at the mic
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[18:31:02] <matthijs> Olaf asks if bootstrapping is in scope at this moment
[18:31:06] <matthijs> John Klensin at the mic
[18:31:17] <matthijs> Chris at the mic
[18:31:51] <matthijs> Ray Bellis at the mic
[18:32:07] <matthijs> Andy Newton at the mic
[18:32:16] <matthijs> and that will be the last
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[18:32:43] <matthijs> that's all folks
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