IETF
v6ops
v6ops@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, March 9, 2021< ^ >
nathalie has set the subject to: v6ops IETF 104 Prague
Room Configuration
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[16:00:05] <dee3@hot-chilli.net> hi
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[16:01:02] <mcr> I can jabber scribe.
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[16:01:28] <mcr> please prefix with mic: if you want it taken to the mic.
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[16:04:47] <mcr> did he say, class D, or did he say class E?
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[16:05:49] <Tim Chown_web_110> let the dinosaurs play in their swamp.
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[16:08:16] <George Michaelson_web_420> He said class-E and he cited an APNIC authored draft for class-E
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[16:13:52] <Barbara Stark_web_853> Ron: Can you full screen it?
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[16:14:41] <Tim Chown_web_110> +1
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[16:17:54] <Boris Khasanov_web_291> +1 too
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[16:18:43] <mcr> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/materials/slides-110-v6ops-processing-of-the-hop-by-hop-options-header-00 slides, so you can read the eyechart.
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[16:23:00] <सचिन गर्ग_web_157> How does one identify "lowest processing capability of nodes along the path"?
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[16:27:32] <Alexandre Petrescu_web_806> "How does one identify "lowest processing capability of nodes along the path"?" - maybe a PMTUDiscovery-like mechanism(?)
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[16:32:04] <Roland Bless_web_995> Originally RAO was kind of this distinction. Therefore, this draft should also consider RFC 6398 (Router Alert Option Considerations)
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[16:38:07] <Warren Kumari_web_596> Was the line closed?
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[16:38:36] <dee3@hot-chilli.net> Ryan: you are very strongly backlit and appear to be a true man of mystery.
[16:39:06] <dee3@hot-chilli.net> That's Gyan…
[16:39:09] <Alexandre Petrescu_web_468> Gyan - I know ok
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[16:44:57] <Warren Kumari_web_596> <no hats> If I define that "foo" must be in the fast path, that doesn't magically make all of my boxes suddenly implement foo in hardware....
[16:46:52] <mcr> the HBH options suffer from anti-fax effect: useful only when everyone has implemented it.  So, any single vendor spends money to implement, but gets possibly no benefit, except maybe lockin.  The Internet gets no benefit.  I think that really we have an economics problem, not a Control-Plane DOS problem.
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[16:48:22] <Warren Kumari_web_596> @Ron: Yes, but *really* wanting a pony doesn't make a pony appear. Yes, more devices have NPU, but you still don't know that my router rtr27 has a small NPE, or ASIC or that it's still running an an ancient version of software.
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[16:49:19] <Warren Kumari_web_596> +1 to MCR. If you'd offer to forklift my devices on each new HBH that needs hardware, I'll be fully onbard :-P
[16:49:40] <mcr> First, you want a pony. Now you want a forklift? which is it?
[16:49:44] <mcr> :-)
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[16:50:07] <Warren Kumari_web_596> A pony driving a forklift in a green-field...
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[16:51:25] <Warren Kumari_web_596> One of my favorite quotes: "Analogies are like bicycles: It doesn’t matter how many marbles it takes to
fill the outhouse, telco execs will always be making silly metaphors"
— Patrik Gilmore.
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[16:54:46] <mcr> ROFL.
[16:55:25] <Alexandre Petrescu_web_468> 5G as  a business motivator for IPv6?  I doubt that.  I still have to see a 5G deployment that uses IPv6... But yes, IPv6 is motivated at 3G and 4G operators who have no more IPv4 addresses.
[16:55:30] <mcr> so, please, getting this to full screen is not so hard.
[16:56:28] <Alexandre Petrescu_web_468> (when I say I need to see IPv6 on 5G is that a few weeks ago it was absent; maybe now it is, I am just looking for it)$
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[17:01:27] <mcr> not seeing Nalini or Michael Ackerman at this meeting.
[17:02:10] <mcr> We've left Enterprises far behind.
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[17:04:36] <Jordi Palet Martinez_web_987> One more possible explanation for the unused IPv4 addresses may be related to the addresses in AFRINIC that are under litigation. I think is about 2 million addresses. They should not be announced. Also the addresses still in the RIRs, not allocated, or under quarantine (once they are reclaimed because policy violations, lack of payment, etc.). And of course, those that are being "transferred" it may take a couple of months and that means that meanwhile may be aren't used until they are deployed in the new "resource holder"
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[17:05:53] <Alexandre Petrescu_web_468> The topic about ARCEP: it is an excellent and encouraging aspect to put in the IPv6 requirement to condition assigning a license.  But the week(if I can say so) point is that there is no way to check that that condition is respected.  If other regulator tries to make an IPv6 req then a check tool should be added - has the condition been respected, etc.
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[17:08:24] <Jen Linkova_web_172> Well. but it was IPv6-only *clients* ;)
[17:09:31] <Jen Linkova_web_172> so Ipv6-only clients in my networks are not a reason for someone else to deploy IPv6.
[17:09:42] <Jen Linkova_web_172> Evening??!
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[17:10:43] <mcr> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/materials/slides-110-v6ops-tcp-socket-hash-flow-label-00
[17:11:30] <mcr> @Jen, NAT64 boxes should insert multiple HBH options into the packets, so slow them down :-)
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[17:20:57] <mcr> I have direct experience where ECMP 5-tuple hashes expire from the ISPs network, and my SSH sessions are killed.  (IPv4)
[17:21:27] <mcr> not killed, just never forwarding any more packets, after ~~2min typical for web traffic. (This was before HTTP/1.1 was common)
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[17:34:54] <Tim Chown_web_110> how do you see who is speaking?
[17:36:11] <Alexandre Petrescu_web_196> "how do you see who is speaking?" - the speakers image or name in the participant list gets greened around, or circling while s/he speaks.
[17:36:22] <dee3@hot-chilli.net> The speaker's picture on the left is highlighted. You need to have meetecho in the participant list mode on the left, not chat.
[17:36:41] <Tim Chown_web_110> aha, thanks dee3
[17:37:04] <Meetecho> If you want to see both, you can detach the Jabber chat in a floating window
[17:37:08] <Tim Chown_web_110> is it possible to pin both chat and particpants to see both at once?
[17:37:14] <Tim Chown_web_110> thanks :)
[17:38:02] <Alexandre Petrescu_web_196> yes, one needs to 'Detach' chat and thhen select participant list; it makes for 2 windows that can be supeerposed.
[17:38:26] <Tim Chown_web_110> am there now, thank you
[17:38:36] <Alexandre Petrescu_web_196> (one detaches the chat column by clicking on its upper right corner)
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[17:40:49] <Alexandre Petrescu_web_196> (about meetecho interface: maybe one can invent an alphabetical order definition that includes non-latin script, so that the non-latin names dont appear systematically at the end)
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[17:44:03] <Alexandre Petrescu_web_196> About the IPv6 addressing discussion: it is interesting that scope discussion mentions the risk of using GUAs on a link-scope (unnecessary opening holes).
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[17:52:08] <Alexandre Petrescu_web_196> My box does offers DHCPv6 or SLAAC but not both.  So if I turn on DHCPv6 I can no longer use my Android tablet.
[17:52:11] <Luigi Iannone_web_671> There is related document that will be discussed in the IntArea WG: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-jia-intarea-scenarios-problems-addressing-00
Differently from this one it is not IPv6-centric, it takes a more general stance. I think the two are somehow related.
[17:53:18] <Eduard V_web_217> It does not look like a simplification. If so big complexity with many addresses then maybe better to return to one IP address?
[17:53:48] <Luigi Iannone_web_671> But then you lose something, like privacy for example
[17:54:19] <Eduard V_web_217> yea, but at least it would work
[17:55:39] <Luigi Iannone_web_671> but will not provide what some people are looking for.... I think the point here is that would be nice to choose  if you wish stability and reliability and do not care about privacy then you should be able to have it that way...
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[17:56:33] <Eduard V_web_217> I did mean: where is the balance between functionality and complexity?
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[17:57:08] <Luigi Iannone_web_671> Ah...  tough question indeed....
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[17:59:05] <Eduard V_web_217> RFC 8028 is not detailed enough to be MUST. It is a good wish in the current form. I do agree that it should be MUST.
[18:00:21] <Jen Linkova_web_172> The network manager profile thingy I mentioned: https://developer.gnome.org/NetworkManager/stable/nm-settings-keyfile.html
[18:01:17] <Dave Thaler_web_245> the RFC fernando mentioned is https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5014
[18:01:24] <Dave Thaler_web_245> Informational
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[18:03:04] <Dave Thaler_web_245> IPV6_ADDR_PREFERENCES socket option
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[18:04:36] <Barbara Stark_web_853> Just making sure... we're talking about the TAPS WG?
[18:04:41] <Dave Thaler_web_245> yes
[18:04:57] <Bill Fenner_web_310> (informational since IETF doesn't specify socket APIs as standards)
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[18:05:14] <Dave Thaler_web_245> right
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[18:05:36] <Dave Thaler_web_245> and indeed the way the IETF specified it would not be how it would be standardized, even for C
[18:06:47] <Dave Thaler_web_245> (as we learned from RFC 3678)
[18:07:09] <Alexandre Petrescu_web_196> (about address types: on-demand, stable, see definition of Types of IP Addresses in RFC8653)
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[18:09:25] <Jen Linkova_web_172> How many of 35 are asleep? ;))
[18:09:31] <Barbara Stark_web_853> Or didn't know to click on the poll button at top and then click one of the radio buttons.
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[18:10:10] <Luigi Iannone_web_671> is not intuitive
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[18:10:25] <Yahya_web_692> bye everyone
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