IETF
v6ops
v6ops@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, July 22, 2014< ^ >
Dan York has set the subject to: v6ops IETF 90
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[18:16:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> hi everybody, just FYI, a Meetecho room with integrated slides/audio/video is available: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf90/v6ops
[18:18:04] <Nabil Benamar> Thanks Lorenzo
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[18:21:15] <Lee Howard> Dan, you're still Jabbering for us?
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[18:23:16] <Dan York> Sure, I can do so
[18:23:21] <Lorenzo Miniero> Current Presenter: Sheng Jiang
[18:23:38] <Dan York> Do we have remote participants?
[18:23:54] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2 What isIPv6 Flow Label Reflection?
[18:23:57] <Nabil Benamar> yes
[18:24:15] <Dan York> (I say as I notice several of were remote yesterday... so unless they flew here overnight they probably are again.)
[18:24:25] <Dan York> s/of/who/
[18:25:11] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Benefits of Label Reflection
[18:25:23] <Lorenzo Miniero> *Flow Label
[18:27:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: The benefits of IPv6 Flow Label Reflection-2
[18:28:32] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: The benefits of IPv6 Flow Label Reflection-3
[18:29:21] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Why use IPv6 Flow Label Reflection
[18:30:37] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: Detail Process
[18:31:08] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Detail Process - NAT64 Environment
[18:32:21] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 11: Security Considerations
[18:34:49] <Dan York> Big mic line forming
[18:35:04] <kchittimaneni> what's the name of the person at the mic?
[18:35:07] <kchittimaneni> I missed that
[18:35:25] <Lee Howard> me, too
[18:35:45] <Dan York> I think it is David Lamparter
[18:36:44] <Dan York> Andrew Yourtchenko at mic
[18:37:58] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Detail Process - NAT64 Environment
[18:39:08] <Dan York> Erik Kline at mic
[18:41:26] <Dan York> Eric Vyncke at mic
[18:41:42] <Dan York> (the next person in line is NOT named Eric)
[18:42:08] <Dan York> Phillip Matthews at mic
[18:42:36] <Dan York> Jen Linkova at mic
[18:43:24] <Dan York> Phillip at mic
[18:44:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: Power consumption due to IPv6 multicast
[18:44:59] <Lorenzo Miniero> Current presenter: Yoann Desmouceaux
[18:45:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: Power consumption due to IPv6 multicast
[18:45:03] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Context
[18:45:31] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: IPv6 multicast
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[18:47:38] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Multicast and WiFi Power-Save
[18:48:42] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Multicast and WiFi Power-Save
[18:49:26] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Large-scale networks
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[18:51:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Solutions?
[18:51:24] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: Some solutions:
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[18:53:09] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Questions?
[18:53:12] <Dan York> (?) at mic
[18:54:24] <Dan York> Now Andrew Yourtchenko answering (?) at the mic
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[18:56:10] <Dan York> Fred Baker at mic
[18:56:16] <Dan York> Andrew Yourtchenko at mic
[18:56:32] <Dan York> Nalini Elkins at mic
[18:56:36] <Dan York> Mark Townsley at mic
[18:57:30] <Dan York> Ran Atkinson at mic
[18:58:11] <james woodyatt> Not true. Not true, Ran.
[18:58:32] <james woodyatt> Wi-fi uses beam-forming to get higher data rates on unicast.
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[18:58:47] <Dan York> Do you want me to relay?
[18:59:00] <Dan York> (there are 3 people in line behind Ran)
[18:59:00] <Nabil Benamar> MIC: I really like this work with many statistics in the draft like an academic research study. My question is that which of the possible suggested solutions is the easier to implement ?
[18:59:08] <Dan York> okay... I'll get in line
[18:59:18] <Dan York> james woodyatt: Do you want a mic relay?
[18:59:38] <Dan York> Andrew Yourtchenko at mic
[18:59:56] <james woodyatt> Relay this: a good message to take to IEEE is that we have good data now that says IPv6 multicast deserves special treatment in access points to be converted into 802.11-layer unicast to each group member.
[19:00:46] <Dan York> Lorenzo Colitti at mic
[19:01:43] <james woodyatt> Adding: this is not easy for 802.11 to address. beam-forming and disparate unicast physical rates for each group member make it a tough problem decide whether to multicast or to send multiple unicasts.
[19:03:05] <Dan York> Erik Nordmark at mic
[19:04:07] <Dan York> Barbara Stark at mic
[19:05:24] <Dan York> (I am next relaying for Nabil and James)
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[19:07:47] <james woodyatt> Thanks, Dan.
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[19:08:18] <Nabil Benamar> Thanks Dan
[19:08:36] <Dan York> Andrew Yourtchenko at mic
[19:09:14] <David Lamparter> someone in here just asked about mcast to unicast conversion, who was that?
[19:09:24] <james woodyatt> Me.
[19:09:50] <David Lamparter> ah, hi. how did you arrive at the idea that this is difficult to do?
[19:10:09] <Dan York> Bob Moskowitz at mic
[19:10:30] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
[19:10:43] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: Running Multiple PLATs in
[19:10:50] <Lorenzo Miniero> Current presenter: Chongfeng Xie
[19:10:51] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: Running Multiple PLATs in
[19:10:56] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Introduction
[19:11:06] <Dan York> NOTE: I have to step away for a minute.  If I'm not back before there are questions can someone else please relay the names into the chat room?
[19:11:30] <james woodyatt> Long story. I was the IPv6 subject matter expert at Apple on the AirPort base station firmware team, and this IPv6 Mcast problem was a constant headache.
[19:11:57] <Lee Howard> Dan: I'm sure we'll all fill in as best we can
[19:12:41] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Motivation of Multi-PLATs
[19:12:46] <james woodyatt> The high media and power consumption of IPv6 multicast was a common thread in a lot of problem reports.
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[19:13:59] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Multi-PLATs Architecture
[19:14:03] <james woodyatt> Trying to deal with it in the access point firmware implementation was what I often said would be necessary to do this right, but the response I always got was "too hard, too risky"
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[19:14:08] <Teemu Savolainen> The scenario 2, load balancing, should work with RFC7050: different subscribers are made to discover different Pref64::/ns.. (e.g. DNS64 synthesizing using different Pref64::/n for different subscribers)
[19:14:24] equinox is now known as David Lamparter
[19:14:33] <David Lamparter> james: sorry, wifi dropped
[19:14:38] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Enhanced CLAT for Multi-PLATs
[19:15:11] <David Lamparter> james: i was about to ask, did you talk to the big wifi vendors? most of them are already doing multicast to unicast conversion
[19:15:20] <james woodyatt> And I believe the "too hard" complaint, because I had access to the source code, and I could see that figuring out how to decide whether to multicast or to send multiple unicasts was sufficiently complex arithmetic that the puny little processor in the access point would be seriously burdened by it.
[19:15:38] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Prefix Management Server
[19:16:09] <Teemu Savolainen> Also RFC
[19:16:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Deployment Consideration
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[19:16:30] <james woodyatt> David, maybe they are in newer hardware that just hasn't gotten to me yet.
[19:16:52] <David Lamparter> james: i think they just cheat by roughly approximating
[19:17:15] <Teemu Savolainen> Also RFC7050 allows clients to discover multiple Pref64::/n. It will be then up to OS/application to choose which discovered Pref64::/n to use.
[19:17:26] <james woodyatt> I'm not optimistic that "rough approximation" will work very well.
[19:17:35] <David Lamparter> james: i can tell you it does ;)
[19:17:54] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: Demo System of Multi-PLATs
[19:17:56] <David Lamparter> (at least in the conference scenario we had)
[19:17:56] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Questions? Discussion?
[19:18:03] <james woodyatt> Well then, I wonder if the measurements taken in this Power Consumption draft were made with access points that do this.
[19:18:06] Erik Nordmark leaves the room
[19:18:08] <Lee Howard> ANdrew Yorurchenko at mic
[19:18:11] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Motivation of Multi-PLATs
[19:18:40] <james woodyatt> Because if so, then we have a real problem in IETF.
[19:18:50] <David Lamparter> good question actually... i was just assuming this would be "transparent" APs
[19:19:07] <james woodyatt> David, are you in Toronto?
[19:19:10] <David Lamparter> yeah
[19:19:26] <David Lamparter> i'll go grab the guy and ask
[19:19:50] <Lee Howard> Lorenzo Colitti at mic
[19:19:58] <David Lamparter> anyway. meeting is moving on, let's not hog the xmpp channel ;)
[19:20:09] <james woodyatt> Could you please relay this concern to the author of the draft? And email me today with an answer?  Please? <jhw@nestlabs.com>
[19:20:25] <David Lamparter> will do
[19:20:30] <james woodyatt> THanks.
[19:22:32] <Lee Howard> Jan Zorz at mic
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[19:23:41] <Lee Howard> Žorž
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[19:24:07] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
[19:24:24] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: DAD And Packet Triplication
[19:24:41] <Lee Howard> Andrew Yourtchenko presenting
[19:26:32] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Overview
[19:26:34] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Questions
[19:26:35] Juan-Pedro Cerezo Martin joins the room
[19:26:52] <Lee Howard> Lorenzo Colitti at mic
[19:28:04] <Lee Howard> Ole Troan talking
[19:29:23] <Lee Howard> Tim Chown talkig
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[19:30:54] <Dan York> I'm back
[19:30:58] <Lee Howard> Hazeyazma
[19:31:13] <Lee Howard> Hiroaki Hazeyazma presenting (I think that's the spellling, it went fast)
[19:31:19] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
[19:31:49] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: IPv4 Address Literal in URL
[19:31:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Remainder
[19:32:38] Erik Nordmark leaves the room
[19:32:54] <Dan York> That is right, Lee, per the slides
[19:33:10] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Remainder
[19:33:14] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: A proof of concept implementation
[19:33:25] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Example in IETF90 ietf-nat64 wifi
[19:33:28] <Lorenzo Miniero> Current presenter: Hiroaki Hazeyazma
[19:33:29] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Example in IETF90 ietf-nat64 wifi
[19:33:43] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Chrome Plug-in example
[19:33:46] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Chrome Plug-in example
[19:33:49] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: Evaluations of .v4.wide.ad.jp / plug-in
[19:34:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Update Summary from -00 to -01
[19:34:24] Louis Fourie joins the room
[19:34:30] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 10: Update Summary from -00 to -01
[19:35:15] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 11: Discussion
[19:36:14] <Dan York> Comments?
[19:36:20] Louis Fourie leaves the room
[19:37:18] <Dan York> Fred Baker is speaking to Xing Li about observations from a few years back
[19:37:22] <Dan York> Dave Thaler at mic
[19:40:06] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Chrome Plug-in example
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[19:41:20] <Teemu Savolainen> Why the browser plugin wouldn't implement RFC7050 and perform Pref64::/n discovery?
[19:41:32] <Dan York> Jen Linkova at mic
[19:41:44] <Teemu Savolainen> And then instead of adding .tld would change IPv4 literal to IPv6 literal
[19:46:00] <Lee Howard> Teemu: was that for Dan to relay?
[19:46:25] <Teemu Savolainen> Dunno, I'm not sure who is relay:) I'll send my comment to authors via email anyway:)
[19:48:54] <Dan York> Teemu - were you asking for a relay?
[19:49:24] <Dan York> Andrew Yourtchenko is at mic now
[19:49:36] <Dan York> Suzanne Wolf and Joel Jaeggli were speaking before
[19:50:16] <Dan York> Lorenzo Colittie at mic
[19:50:22] <Teemu Savolainen> I think the other comments are more significant, so no need to relay. I sent my comment to authors already.
[19:50:31] <Dan York> Okay
[19:50:55] <Dan York> Mikael Abrahamson at mic
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[19:50:59] <Dan York> Lorenzo back at mic
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[19:51:50] <Lee Howard> Any final thoughts?  The line is very short.
[19:55:54] <Dan York> And we're done!
[19:55:56] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentation stopped
[19:55:57] <Lee Howard> thanks, everyone!
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[19:55:58] <Dan York> See you at IETF 91
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[19:56:23] <Lorenzo Miniero> we'll make recordings of this session available soon on http://ietf90.conf.meetecho.com/
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