IETF
v6ops
v6ops@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, July 21, 2014< ^ >
Dan York has set the subject to: v6ops IETF 89
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[12:51:53] Dan York has set the subject to: v6ops IETF 90
[12:52:12] Dave Michaud -MeetEcho joins the room
[12:52:58] <Dan York> Good morning.
[12:52:59] Encel Sanchez joins the room
[12:53:13] <Dan York> Wes George and I will both be in here able to be jabber-scribing
[12:53:18] <Dan York> Do we have remote attendees?
[12:53:40] <Dave Michaud -MeetEcho> Dave Michaud here!
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[12:56:22] <Dan York> Agenda: https://tools.ietf.org/wg/v6ops/agenda
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[12:58:48] Lee Howard joins the room
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[12:59:08] <Lee Howard> Good morning
[12:59:22] Hosnieh Rafiee joins the room
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[13:00:05] <Dan York> Do we have any remote attendees?
[13:00:07] C Strotmann joins the room
[13:00:10] <Hosnieh Rafiee> Yes
[13:00:13] <Lee Howard> Who is our jabber scribe this morning?
[13:00:22] <Dan York> Lee - Wes and I are both doing it
[13:00:26] <Dan York> Hosnieh Rafiee: Great
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[13:00:54] <Lee Howard> Excellent, thank you both
[13:00:58] <Hosnieh Rafiee> still I have no audio or video
[13:01:01] <Hosnieh Rafiee> :)
[13:01:04] <Hosnieh Rafiee> I guess not started yet or
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[13:01:16] <Wes George> I told Fred that I figured jabber scribing was likely to be compulsory for me if you couldn't find a volunteer ;-)
[13:01:19] <Lee Howard> not started yet; we've been waiting for a video cable
[13:01:21] <Dan York> We're not started yet
[13:01:48] <Dan York> First discussion per the agenda will be these slides: https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/90/slides/slides-90-v6ops-0.pdf
[13:02:02] bz joins the room
[13:02:08] <Kevin Otte> aside: bummed MeetEcho isn't IPv6-enabled.
[13:02:10] <Hosnieh Rafiee> ok thanks
[13:02:35] <Hosnieh Rafiee> :)
[13:02:37] <Wes George> tes
[13:03:10] <bz> audio is very low volume;  check 1 check 1 is …  unplugged again
[13:03:11] Paul Chilton joins the room
[13:03:29] <Dan York> Getting started
[13:03:53] <Dan York> If you are remote and want something brought to the microphone, please preface it with MIC:
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[13:04:25] <Hosnieh Rafiee> hum... I still don't see
[13:04:34] <Hosnieh Rafiee> any audio
[13:04:35] <Hosnieh Rafiee> :(
[13:04:38] <Hosnieh Rafiee> or video
[13:04:41] <Dave Michaud -MeetEcho> I can see slides but no audio or video
[13:04:43] <Dan York> Hosnieh Rafiee: in Meetecho?
[13:04:52] <Dave Michaud -MeetEcho> yes in Meetecho
[13:04:52] <Hosnieh Rafiee> Yes
[13:04:59] <bz> Classic audio streaming is also dead
[13:05:15] <bz> was, but now is very very very silent and dead again
[13:05:16] <Dan York> Can you hear it at http://ietf90streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf902.m3u
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[13:05:21] <bz> noope
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[13:05:58] <bz> audio is there-ish now; still silent
[13:06:11] <Dan York> Did you hear me speaking on the mic?
[13:06:12] <Tobia Castaldi> sorry guys, the audio video guys are configuring the mixer
[13:06:16] <bz> Better
[13:06:32] <Hosnieh Rafiee> ok
[13:06:32] <Dan York> No audio now
[13:06:37] <Hosnieh Rafiee> no
[13:06:41] <Hosnieh Rafiee> I still don't have anything
[13:06:43] <Dan York> Getting ready for Ron to speak
[13:06:45] <Hosnieh Rafiee> shall I relogin
[13:06:54] <Dan York> Now do hear Ron Bonica?
[13:07:00] <Hosnieh Rafiee> nothing
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[13:07:05] <bz> 902 stream works now
[13:07:18] Hosnieh Rafiee joins the room
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[13:07:29] <kjotte> have audio, no video
[13:07:44] <joel jaeggli> yeah audio on channel2 is working
[13:07:47] Hosnieh Rafiee leaves the room
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[13:07:58] <Dan York> We're on slide 3 of https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/90/slides/slides-90-v6ops-0.pdf
[13:08:18] <Hosnieh Rafiee> I just receive "waiting for steaming error"
[13:08:22] <Dan York> Slide 4
[13:08:25] <Hosnieh Rafiee> anybody else has the same problem
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[13:08:55] <Carsten Strotmann> Hosnieh: I have audio, but not via meetecho
[13:09:02] Kevin Otte leaves the room
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[13:09:04] <kjotte> Hosnieh Rafiee: yes, I have audio from http://ietf90streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf902.m3u
[13:09:08] Dave Michaud -Meetecho joins the room
[13:09:13] <Dan York> Hosnieh Rafiee: Can you try listening on the regular audio stream?  at http://ietf90streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf902.m3u
[13:09:24] kjotte gave up on MeetEcho
[13:09:28] <Hosnieh Rafiee> ok
[13:09:45] <Dan York> Slide 5 (labeled 4/9)
[13:09:46] Shishio Tsuchiya leaves the room
[13:09:47] <Hosnieh Rafiee> I guess I do the same
[13:09:49] <Hosnieh Rafiee> :|
[13:09:54] <Dan York> Slide 6 (labeled 4/9)
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[13:10:06] <Dan York> Slide 7 - an Open Question
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[13:10:46] <Dan York> Ron asks: "has anybody experienced the conflict between SLAAC/DHCPv6 in apps?"
[13:10:51] Hosnieh Rafiee joins the room
[13:10:57] <Dan York> Slide 8 - Next Steps
[13:11:07] Tobia Castaldi joins the room
[13:11:23] <Dan York> Any comments remotely on this draft or slides?
[13:11:37] <Dan York> Joel Jaeggli at mic
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[13:12:55] <kjotte> commenter mic clipping
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[13:14:11] <Dan York> Lorenzo Colitti at mic
[13:15:08] <Dan York> Tim Winters at mic
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[13:16:11] <Dan York> Barbara Stark at mic
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[13:17:24] <Dan York> Andrew Yourtchenko at mic
[13:17:51] <james woodyatt> Audio from Barbara's mic is over-modulated.
[13:18:05] <Dan York> Erik Normark at mic
[13:18:37] <Dan York> Lorenzo back at mic
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[13:19:24] <Hosnieh Rafiee> hum... I cannot hear them
[13:19:31] <Dan York> Erik back at mic
[13:20:19] <wesgeorge> we were having problems with audio, confirmed that the IETF stream is working
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[13:20:58] <Nabil Benamar> is it necessary to keep the A Flag enabled while the M is set to 1 ?
[13:21:49] <Andrew Yourtchenko> Nabil: if you have A on and M on, then you get the DHCPv6+SLAAC addresses
[13:22:54] <Dan York> Brian Carpenter at mic
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[13:23:29] <Dan York> Ran Atkinson at mic
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[13:24:28] <Nabil Benamar> Andrew: Why should the A flag be enabled when we want DHCPv6 only (M flag)?
[13:24:51] <Dan York> Bernie Volz at mic
[13:24:58] <Dan York> Lorenzo Colitti at mic
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[13:25:50] <Dan York> Nabil - I'm assuming these questions are just for the side discussion here in the chat room.  If you want comments relayed to the mic please preface with MIC:
[13:25:59] <Dan York> Switching presentations here
[13:26:19] <Dan York> Now IPv6 Roaming Behavior Analysis:  https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/90/slides/slides-90-v6ops-9.pdf
[13:26:30] <Dan York> Gang Chen presenting
[13:26:48] <Dan York> Slide 2: Observation and Goals
[13:27:10] <Nabil Benamar> Oh, thanks Dan...this is indeed my first remote participation !!
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[13:28:40] <Dan York> Slide 3 - architecture
[13:29:08] <Dan York> Nabil Benamar: No problem!  We as Jabber scribes (Wes and I) are here to help you get your questions answered
[13:29:12] <Dan York> Slide 4 - updates
[13:29:37] Alejandro Acosta joins the room
[13:30:07] <Dan York> Nabil - if you ask a question one of us will go stand in the mic line and ask the question on your behalf.  Just do something like:
[13:30:32] <Dan York> MIC: what is the ....  (whatever)
[13:30:39] <Dan York> and we'll bring it to the mic
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[13:30:58] <Dan York> Whoops... up to slide 6
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[13:32:11] <Dan York> Lorenzo at mic
[13:32:39] <Dan York> Fred Baker is asking if we are ready to go to WGLC
[13:33:40] <Dan York> Hui Deng at mic
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[13:34:22] <kjotte> one of the audience mics is still clipping hard. Hui Deng is unintelligible
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[13:34:58] <Dave Michaud -Meetecho> MIC: With regards to roaming experience, there are still issues being discovered (not a lot of operators are ready for IPv6 roaming). For the sake of completeness of this draft, we may want to wait a bit before WGLC
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[13:35:42] <Dan York> Dave - sorry ... the chairs moved on.
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[13:35:56] <Dave Michaud -Meetecho> no problem, it had the same effect anyway
[13:35:56] <Dan York> Could you please send this to the list?
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[13:36:27] <Dan York> Yasuhiro Ohara now presenting
[13:36:31] <Dan York> https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/90/slides/slides-90-v6ops-1.pdf
[13:36:33] <Dave Michaud -Meetecho> Yes I will address this on the list
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[13:36:41] <Dan York> Slide 2 - Standpoint
[13:36:55] <Lee Howard> Sorry I missed that before moving on
[13:37:13] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 3: Summary
[13:37:23] <Lee Howard> I would at least like to reach out to operators with expertise who may not be regular IETF/v6ops attendees.
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[13:38:39] <Dan York> Lee - yes, I'm thinking that between you and some of our (ISOC) contacts we should be able to find some reviewers
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[13:38:49] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 4: About    
??JANOG
[13:39:23] <Alejandro Acosta> @Lee, probably you might be interesting in joining IETF-LAC mailing list There are many operators in the list and they do not usually come to IETF
[13:39:43] Teemu Savolainen leaves the room
[13:39:51] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 5: JANOG34    
??Logical    
??Network    
??Topo
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[13:40:47] <Lee Howard> Thank you, Alejandro, I will
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[13:44:12] <Dan York> We're up to slide 8
[13:44:31] <Dan York> Slide 9
[13:44:42] <Dan York> Slide 10 - network map with green and blue lines
[13:45:23] <Dan York> Slide 11 - DNS64@ULA-only
[13:47:14] <Dan York> Slide 12
[13:47:22] <Dan York> Slide 3
[13:47:28] <Dan York> er... 13
[13:47:37] <Dan York> Slide 14
[13:47:58] <Dan York> Lorenzo Colitti at mic
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[13:48:54] <Dan York> Summary slide
[13:49:19] <Dan York> Lorenzo at mic
[13:51:02] <Dan York> Steven Barth at mic
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[13:51:12] <Dan York> Next up - Brian Carpenter presenting
[13:51:29] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 1: Considerations of
[13:51:32] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 2: Topics discussed since last IETF
[13:51:33] <Nabil Benamar> MIC: Did you test the use of ULA addresses in the case of sensors (Internet of Things)
[13:51:36] <Dan York> Slides: https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/90/slides/slides-90-v6ops-2.pdf
[13:52:01] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 3: Main Revision #1:
[13:52:04] <Dan York> Nabil - unfortunately we moved on to the next preso :-(
[13:52:23] <Nabil Benamar> No Prob Dan...is
[13:52:27] <Lee Howard> Seeing that this is the second time a MIC comment has come in a few seconds after we've moved on, I will try to jump in at transitions from now on.
[13:52:54] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 4: Main Revision #2:
[13:53:20] Teemu Savolainen joins the room
[13:53:22] <Dan York> Nabil - Yasuhiro sat down near me and I asked him your question.  No, they did not test the use of ULA addresses with sensors
[13:53:59] Teemu Savolainen leaves the room
[13:56:00] <Dan York> Remote attendees - To help with the timing, if discussion is winding down and you have a question but it may take a moment to write it, perhaps you can do something like "MIC: (writing question)" or something like that
[13:56:02] <Nabil Benamar> Thanks a lot Dan...you are doing great work :)
[13:56:11] <Dan York> Ran Atkinson at mic
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[13:57:04] <Dan York> Lorenzo Colitti at mic
[13:57:50] <Dan York> Lorenzo likes the phrasing "unsafe design decision"
[13:57:55] <Dan York> Wes George at mic
[13:58:27] <Dan York> Lorenzo back at mic
[13:59:34] <Dan York> Slide 6 - Main Revision #4
[14:00:10] Steven Bibby joins the room
[14:00:37] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 8: Main Revision #Editorial
[14:01:21] <james woodyatt> Worth noting: a V6-only app on a dual-stack IPv4+ULA-only host will always use the ULA despite the availability of a higher priority IPv4 address.
[14:01:22] Jeff Carrell joins the room
[14:01:35] <Dan York> Ran Atkinson at mic
[14:01:43] <Dan York> james woodyatt: Do you want that relayed?
[14:02:09] <Dan York> Erik Kline at mic
[14:02:11] <Lee Howard> That is the opposite of what was previously reported at the mike.
[14:02:13] <james woodyatt> Not sure. I think so.
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[14:02:48] ietf@wtfismyip.com leaves the room
[14:02:53] <Dan York> ok, I can relay
[14:03:06] <james woodyatt> I was looking at RFC 6724, and it shouldn't force an IPv4 address to be used in a V6-only app.
[14:03:20] <Dan York> Tim Chown at mic
[14:03:27] <Dan York> Comments now?
[14:03:28] <james woodyatt> Gah. I've lost the audio stream.
[14:03:29] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 9: Comments?
[14:03:53] <Dan York> Mikael Abrahamsson at mic
[14:04:32] <james woodyatt> I have audio restored.
[14:05:03] <Dan York> james woodyatt: Do you still want that comment relayed?  (Seeing Lee's reply as well)
[14:05:20] <Lee Howard> Happy to hear it at the mic of you want
[14:05:21] <james woodyatt> Yes. Please.
[14:05:26] <Dan York> Erik Kline at mic
[14:05:30] <Dan York> ok... going to mic
[14:06:18] <Dan York> Ran Atkinson at mic
[14:06:21] Steven Bibby leaves the room
[14:07:07] <Dan York> Lorenzo at mic
[14:07:27] <Dan York> While I'm in the mic line, anyone else remote with comments?
[14:08:40] <Dan York> Yasuhiro Ohara at mic
[14:08:40] <james woodyatt> Dan— it might help to note that I am employed by Nest Labs now.
[14:09:12] <Dan York> ok - and the point is Worth noting: a V6-only app on a dual-stack IPv4+ULA-only host will always use the ULA despite the availability of a higher priority IPv4 address.
[14:10:03] Markus Stenberg leaves the room
[14:10:23] <james woodyatt> Yes. And my question: do we still want to "NOT RECOMMEND" ULA+NPTv6 in light of that observation. Personally, I do, but I bring it up anyway.
[14:11:02] Dave Thaler joins the room
[14:12:01] <Dan York> Lorenzo at mic
[14:12:08] <Dan York> Tim Chown at mic
[14:13:03] <Dan York> james woodyatt: there were several people nodding in agreement with Lorenzo, Tim and Brian who basically all agreed with you
[14:13:26] <Meetecho Scribe> Presentation stopped
[14:13:47] <Lee Howard> I see no outstanding notes before we transition
[14:14:06] becarpenter joins the room
[14:14:06] <Dan York> Now discussing http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jaeggli-v6ops-pmtud-ecmp-problem-01
[14:14:15] <Dan York> Slides: https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/90/slides/slides-90-v6ops-3.pdf
[14:14:25] <Dan York> Joel Jaeggli presenting
[14:14:33] <Dan York> Slide 2: Goals
[14:15:49] Alejandro Acosta leaves the room
[14:16:00] <Dan York> Slide 3 - Problem
[14:16:33] joel jaeggli leaves the room
[14:17:05] Shishio Tsuchiya leaves the room
[14:19:37] <Dan York> Slide 4
[14:19:41] <Dan York> Slide 5 - Next Steps
[14:19:49] Markus Stenberg joins the room
[14:19:58] <Dan York> Any remote comments?
[14:20:18] <Dan York> Lorenzo at mic
[14:21:12] Sheng Jiang joins the room
[14:21:16] Markus Stenberg leaves the room
[14:22:18] Jim Rampley joins the room
[14:24:16] <Dan York> Mikael Abrahamsson at mic
[14:24:59] <Dan York> Lorenzo at mic
[14:26:41] <Dan York> Andrew Yourtchenko at mic
[14:27:07] <Dan York> Mikael Abrahamsson at mic
[14:27:49] <Dan York> Fred Templin at mic
[14:28:20] <Lee Howard> ANy remote comments or questions?
[14:31:00] <Dan York> Dan York at mic
[14:31:05] <Dan York> Andrew Yourtchenko at mic
[14:31:12] <Dan York> Mikael back at mic
[14:31:23] <Dan York> Lorenzo at mic
[14:35:01] <kjotte> Looping back around to an earlier comment: Linux implements things that are still draft / aren't RFC. VXLAN comes to mind. If someone writes the code...
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[14:35:04] David Lamparter joins the room
[14:36:28] <Dan York> Hiroshi KITAMURA presenting
[14:36:45] <Dan York> Slides: https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/90/slides/slides-90-v6ops-7.pdf
[14:36:50] joel jaeggli joins the room
[14:36:54] <Dan York> Draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kitamura-ipv6-zoneid-free-03
[14:37:07] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 2: Analysis of the problems of using Zone-I
[14:40:26] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 3: Problem: on providing services via Link-
[14:40:29] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 4: Goals of ???Zone-ID Free??? function and
[14:41:27] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 5: Where is Zone-ID specification?
[14:41:31] fdupont joins the room
[14:42:17] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 6: How Zone-ID info. dealt with in the curr
[14:43:58] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 7: Design and Implementation of ???Zone-ID
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[14:44:51] Andrew Yourtchenko joins the room
[14:45:08] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 8: NO probing type (dominant)
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[14:47:04] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 9: Probing type ???Zone-ID Learning???
[14:48:05] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 10: Zone-ID Learning (send multiple NS probe
[14:48:53] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 11: Zone-ID Learning (send multiple NS probe
[14:49:25] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 12: Considerations on ???Zone-ID Learning???
[14:51:30] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 13: Target Socket functions and Implementati
[14:52:24] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 14: Implementation
[14:52:36] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 15: Summary
[14:53:49] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 16: Discussions
[14:53:52] <Dan York> Markus Stenberg at mic
[14:54:11] <Dan York> Andrew Yourtchenko at mic
[14:54:26] <Dan York> (er... he will be after Markus)
[14:55:55] Sheng Jiang leaves the room
[14:56:54] <Dan York> Dave Thaler at mic
[14:57:29] <james woodyatt> q1: the draft is categorized as Standards Track. is that because it means to update RFC 3542?
[14:58:06] <Dan York> Erik Nordmark at mic
[14:58:20] <Dan York> james - i am in line and can relay
[14:58:43] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 12: Considerations on ???Zone-ID Learning???
[15:00:24] <Dan York> Erik Kline at mic
[15:01:06] <james woodyatt> q2: the approach in this draft is not the only way to address this problem. another way is to provide such logic in a software interface that provides an adaptation above the advanced sockets interface. in light of that, why is this draft necessary?
[15:01:15] <james woodyatt> (those are my questions.)
[15:01:30] <Dave Thaler> My comment is Windows does basically what Andrew said.  it doesn't fail just due to lack of zone id, and doesn't probe multiple interfaces.
[15:02:01] <Dave Thaler> @James: I believe it would be inappropriate to be standards track in v6ops.  (if stds track should be 6man)
[15:02:11] <Dan York> Lorenzo Colitti at mic
[15:03:52] <Ole Troan> With regards to 6man, this was presented there a while back, and as far as I can recall there was no interest in working on this "problem".
[15:05:09] <james woodyatt> Dave is right.
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[15:05:43] <james woodyatt> I heard the response, but I don't think it answers my second question.
[15:07:37] <Dan York> Dan York at mic
[15:08:01] <Dan York> (Davin?) at mic?
[15:09:21] <Dan York> (not sure who is at mic)
[15:10:07] <Dan York> Andrew Yourtchenko at mic
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[15:10:14] <David Lamparter> Dan York: that was me
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[15:11:01] <Lee Howard> anything else before we move away from this topic?
[15:11:26] <Meetecho Scribe> Presentation stopped
[15:11:31] <james woodyatt> p: I do NOT want us to recommend that 6MAN look at this.
[15:11:37] <Dan York> David Lamparter: Ah, thanks.  I was in the process of sitting down and missed your name.  Thanks
[15:11:45] <Dan York> james woodyatt: do you want a relay?
[15:11:58] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 1: Operational Considerations
[15:12:02] <james woodyatt> It looks like we have moved on, so not necessary.
[15:12:12] <Dan York> ok
[15:12:24] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 2: Motivations
[15:12:28] <Dan York> james woodyatt: Ole Troan is here in the jabber toom
[15:12:32] <Dan York> s/toom/room/
[15:12:40] <james woodyatt> Hi, Ole.
[15:13:07] <Dan York> Draft being discussed: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-liu-v6ops-running-multiple-prefixes
[15:13:15] <Dan York> Slides: https://tools.ietf.org/agenda/90/slides/slides-90-v6ops-4.pdf
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[15:13:28] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 3: Scenarios
[15:14:11] <Ole Troan> Hi James
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[15:14:38] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 4: Operational Considerations
[15:16:26] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 5: Operational Considerations
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[15:18:03] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 6: Operational Considerations
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[15:19:35] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 7: Operational Considerations
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[15:21:10] <Meetecho Scribe> Slide 8: Acknowledgements
[15:21:54] <Lee Howard> Comments?
[15:21:58] <Dan York> Lorenzo at mic
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[15:24:28] <Dan York> Mikael at mic
[15:24:51] <Lee Howard> Nobody else at the mike—anybody else want to say or ask anything?
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[15:25:54] <Meetecho Scribe> Presentation stopped
[15:25:58] <Dan York> We're done.
[15:26:01] <Dan York> See you tomorrow
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[15:26:16] <james woodyatt> Excellent. Thanks!
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[15:26:42] <Meetecho Scribe> Bye all....
[15:27:00] <Meetecho Scribe> sorry for the audio quality during the first part o the session
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[15:27:46] <Meetecho Scribe> monday's first session is always a bet about audio room configuration :)
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