IETF
v6ops
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Thursday, 2 August 2012< ^ >
oej has set the subject to: v6ops -- IETF83
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GMT+0
[15:41:44] joel jaeggli joins the room
[15:43:04] <joel jaeggli> v6ops ietf 84 thursday 0900 -
[15:44:44] joel jaeggli has set the subject to: v6ops ietf 84 thursday 0900
[15:52:27] dyork joins the room
[15:58:36] Wes George joins the room
[15:59:26] <dyork> Morning... do we have anyone remote?
[16:00:16] <joel jaeggli> meeting starting
[16:00:24] <joel jaeggli> note well
[16:01:22] <dyork> agenda discussoin
[16:01:28] <dyork> discussion, even
[16:01:33] Brian Haberman joins the room
[16:01:59] Juan Pedro Cerezo joins the room
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[16:02:11] <dyork> Ron Bonica at mic
[16:02:22] <joel jaeggli> discussing an interim
[16:02:44] <joel jaeggli> after sept ripe meeting
[16:02:45] <dyork> September 26th after RIPE
[16:03:17] <joel jaeggli> how many folks would be at ripe anyway
[16:03:23] <joel jaeggli> order of a dozen
[16:03:40] <dyork> Warren Kumari at mic
[16:04:21] <joel jaeggli> sidr would also be meeting then
[16:04:24] jinmei joins the room
[16:04:25] <dyork> Ron Bonica asking question of are there drafts that we would want to discuss with a larger community
[16:05:13] <joel jaeggli> 20-25ish hands
[16:05:19] <dyork> Saturday, September 29th
[16:05:34] <joel jaeggli> for question of how many people would come if it was scheduled
[16:05:53] <dyork> Design Guidelines document, Philip Matthews
[16:06:04] <joel jaeggli> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/84/slides/slides-84-v6ops-6.pdf
[16:06:14] <dyork> Slides: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-v6ops-6.ppt
[16:06:23] <joel jaeggli> slide 2 - what
[16:06:27] <dyork> Oh, cool... Joel... didn't know they were in PDF
[16:06:44] <dyork> Draft is at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-matthews-v6ops-design-guidelines-00
[16:07:02] Atarashi Yoshifumi joins the room
[16:07:37] Dominik Elsbroek joins the room
[16:08:36] Suz joins the room
[16:09:17] <joel jaeggli> slide scope
[16:09:21] ray joins the room
[16:09:36] ray leaves the room
[16:11:56] <dyork> Tim Chown at mic
[16:12:19] <joel jaeggli> tim chown - one of the authors of 5375 - lot of deploymen since then
[16:12:26] <dyork> Saurabh Srivastava at mic
[16:13:14] <joel jaeggli> fred - with respect to 5375 should people who want make changes to it file erratum on it?
[16:13:51] <dyork> (Saurabh not YET at mic... now he is)
[16:14:03] <joel jaeggli> tim - first thing to do before revving it is review it
[16:14:40] <joel jaeggli> sauranb - does coexistance need to be considered
[16:15:58] <joel jaeggli> dan york -
[16:16:53] <joel jaeggli> this document would be worthwhile - security considerations should be infilled.
[16:19:20] <Brian Haberman> @joel - Is someone proposing to use the errata system as an issue tracker?
[16:19:30] <joel jaeggli> joel -
[16:19:56] <joel jaeggli> @brian - fred, but not exactly
[16:20:06] Brian Haberman leaves the room
[16:20:06] <dyork> Joel now at the mic - is this a style guide from one person's view or a survey of existing design styles?
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[16:20:30] <dyork> Test... I'm seeming to have delays in Jabber traffic
[16:20:30] <dyork> Hmm
[16:21:02] <dyork> Wow... quite a delay in Jabber messages
[16:21:30] <joel jaeggli> slide next hop address in static route
[16:21:36] Dan York joins the room
[16:21:49] <Dan York> Trying via another jabber server
[16:23:14] <Dan York> ? at mic (from Cisco)
[16:23:21] <joel jaeggli> gunter V
[16:23:44] <joel jaeggli> link local addresses are frequently derviced from mac address
[16:24:07] <Dan York> Anastasios C. at mic
[16:24:28] <Dan York> ? at rear mic
[16:24:41] <joel jaeggli> will white
[16:24:43] <Dan York> Erik Kline at mic
[16:26:11] <Dan York> Joel Jaeggli speaking
[16:26:13] <joel jaeggli> eric - seems last paragraph doesn't follow logically.
[16:26:32] <Dan York> Fred Baker speaking
[16:27:23] <joel jaeggli> I wonder whether it's better to dicuss the principles by which the decision and to what to do is arrived at.
[16:27:50] <Dan York> Bob Hinden at mic
[16:31:27] <joel jaeggli> eric kline - are you going to nanog or ripe?
[16:31:43] <Dan York> Ron Bonica - "Amsterdam"
[16:31:56] <joel jaeggli> philip - v6ops was that starting point.
[16:33:05] <joel jaeggli> fred - icp guidance - is it time to last call it?
[16:33:08] <joel jaeggli> question
[16:33:31] <joel jaeggli> dan york - support it continue to be published.
[16:34:16] <Dan York> Erik Nygren at mic - has some comments
[16:34:39] <joel jaeggli> eric ? - comments in the cdn session calling out a company by name probably needs to be removed
[16:34:56] <joel jaeggli> next presentation
[16:35:13] <joel jaeggli> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/84/slides/slides-84-v6ops-7.pdf
[16:35:27] <joel jaeggli> Service Provider Wi-Fi Services Over Residential Architectures <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gundavelli-v6ops-community-wifi-svcs>
29-Apr-12, <draft-gundavelli-v6ops-community-wifi-svcs>
[16:35:39] <joel jaeggli> slide - motivation
[16:36:01] Suz joins the room
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[16:39:56] <joel jaeggli> slide sp wifi service for retail model
[16:41:36] <joel jaeggli> slide - sey service requirements
[16:42:49] <joel jaeggli> document scope
[16:43:09] <joel jaeggli> conclusions
[16:44:19] <joel jaeggli> dan york - it's in interesting draft - is this a v6ops doc ?
[16:44:33] <joel jaeggli> fred - let me ask a couple of questions
[16:44:45] <joel jaeggli> does this document belong here ?
[16:45:06] <joel jaeggli> we don't really have a viewpoint
[16:45:21] <joel jaeggli> in paris there was some interest.
[16:45:39] <joel jaeggli> continue to work it with interested parties and we'll see where that goes.
[16:45:48] <joel jaeggli> next presentation -
[16:46:05] <joel jaeggli> Enterprise Incremental IPv6 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chkpvc-enterprise-incremental-ipv6>
16-Jul-12, <draft-chkpvc-enterprise-incremental-ipv6>
[16:46:14] <joel jaeggli> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/84/slides/slides-84-v6ops-0.pdf
[16:47:18] <joel jaeggli> more recent guidance in this area is rfc 4852
[16:47:22] Dominik Elsbroek joins the room
[16:48:57] <joel jaeggli> slide - key highlights
[16:49:19] Satoru Kanno joins the room
[16:51:42] <joel jaeggli> fred - historically what the ietf has recomeded a pa prefix you recomended pi
[16:51:57] <joel jaeggli> I take it you have an opinion
[16:52:08] joel jaeggli leaves the room
[16:52:10] <Dan York> Tim Chown at mic
[16:52:56] <Dan York> Fred Baker - another elephant in the room is the routing table
[16:53:16] <Dan York> Lorenzo Colitti at mic
[16:55:09] <Dan York> If anyone is remote and needs a relay, please let us know
[16:55:14] <Dan York> Bob Hinden at mic
[16:55:40] <Dan York> Joel Jaeggli answers from mic
[16:57:34] <Dan York> Fred Baker answering at mic
[16:58:15] <Dan York> Fred - document should talk about different options
[16:58:21] <Dan York> Lorenzo at mic
[16:59:42] joel jaeggli joins the room
[17:00:00] <joel jaeggli> lorenzo - this is not multihoming
[17:00:32] <joel jaeggli> dave thaler - third bullet
[17:00:43] <Dan York> Lorenzo - NPT in Japan is a use case of how a pig can fly if there are enough economics behind it
[17:01:04] <joel jaeggli> disable security extentions - disagree as phrased
[17:02:15] <Dan York> Erik Kline at mic
[17:03:08] <joel jaeggli> fred - sounds like syslog
[17:03:17] <Dan York> Tim Chown at mic
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[17:03:47] joel jaeggli joins the room
[17:04:26] <joel jaeggli> lorenzo today you log nat bindings
[17:05:06] <joel jaeggli> saurab - autoconfig case, those are security or privacy issues
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[17:08:35] <joel jaeggli> tim chown - reviewing where we are in current practice allows us to idenitfy shortcomings
[17:08:47] hide.zebra leaves the room
[17:09:21] <joel jaeggli> dan york - think about the title. e.g. enterprise deployment guidelines
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[17:10:54] <joel jaeggli> merike k - I like this work. there's probably other general guidelines that you can point out differing opinions on.
[17:11:23] <joel jaeggli> external phase -
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[17:13:22] <joel jaeggli> philip - mathews - second bullet
[17:13:38] <joel jaeggli> question about isis vs ospf
[17:14:33] <Dan York> Fred speaking
[17:15:20] <Dan York> Lorenzo at mic
[17:15:24] <joel jaeggli> ospfv3 is a similar protocol not the same.
[17:16:50] <joel jaeggli> point-3 I don't agree with - there are other ways in v6. no comfortable making a recomnedation
[17:17:51] <joel jaeggli> feels - like it started a here's what we did morphed into here's how we did it
[17:18:33] <joel jaeggli> default timer is lower in vrrp
[17:19:21] <joel jaeggli> mark andrews - lots of enterprises knock out icmp completely, just does work completely
[17:19:33] <joel jaeggli> tim chown - 4860 talks about filtering policy
[17:19:51] <joel jaeggli> lorenzo - the thing that bit us the most
[17:20:01] <joel jaeggli> getting the acls right it was very hard
[17:20:38] <joel jaeggli> it is the thing that it is catches us out.
[17:21:41] <joel jaeggli> kk - is the document too ambitious.
[17:22:53] <joel jaeggli> fred - perception that a document of this class is desired
[17:23:47] <joel jaeggli> want three operators who have deployed ipv6 to review and comment on the draft.
[17:24:11] <Dan York> Erik Kline at mic
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[17:24:16] <joel jaeggli> eric kline - should have attempted it whether they were successful or not
[17:24:25] <joel jaeggli> tim chown -
[17:24:26] <Dan York> Tim Chown at mic
[17:24:41] <joel jaeggli> other documents be aware of and build on them
[17:24:54] <joel jaeggli> not too proscriptive
[17:26:04] <joel jaeggli> aurturo - volutunteered
[17:26:49] <joel jaeggli> lorenzo - it's not ok to say this is not deployable.
[17:28:16] Suz leaves the room
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[17:28:36] <Dan York> Ron Bonica at mic
[17:28:41] <Dan York> Joel Jaeggli at mic
[17:29:47] <joel jaeggli> ad - maybe it might be good to circulate to nanog/ripe
[17:30:14] <joel jaeggli> fred - those who want it to become a working group draft hum
[17:30:19] <joel jaeggli> some in favor
[17:30:24] <joel jaeggli> none opposed
[17:31:10] <joel jaeggli> next preso
[17:31:24] <joel jaeggli> A Reference Framework for DC Migration to IPv6 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lopez-v6ops-dc-ipv6>
19-Jun-12, <draft-lopez-v6ops-dc-ipv6>
[17:31:57] <joel jaeggli> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/84/slides/slides-84-v6ops-1.pdf
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[17:44:30] <joel jaeggli> dan york - I think it's another good one.
[17:45:17] <joel jaeggli> make a comment to the chairs - that this is a package of a documents. we should harmonize some names
[17:47:09] <joel jaeggli> fred - we have a long list of rfcs there are operational deployment requirements - proposing that we call them operational deployment guidance.
[17:47:37] <joel jaeggli> philips - jsut a question - does that apply to wireline incremental?
[17:49:19] <Dan York> Lorenzo C at mic
[17:49:31] <joel jaeggli> lorenzo - full disclusre wee did do this but it was 2008 and our own infrastrucure - in a multitenetant there's no way to pipe this in.
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[17:49:47] <joel jaeggli> do you want this to be phase one or an emergency phase 0
[17:50:08] <joel jaeggli> we shouldn't say that it's a sustainable solution.
[17:51:02] <joel jaeggli> diego - this is certainly switchable
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[17:54:38] <joel jaeggli> maturity level 1 really bothers me.
[17:57:46] <joel jaeggli> warren k - this doesn't work for use but it doesn't work for anyone.
[17:59:12] <joel jaeggli> lorenzo - we should talk about what wording we can use to to gain consensus on it.
[17:59:48] <joel jaeggli> place mautrity level on non—equal footing with 2 and 3
[17:59:56] Juan Pedro Cerezo joins the room
[18:00:30] <joel jaeggli> hum for wg acceptance
[18:00:43] <joel jaeggli> some in favor, none opposed.
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[18:11:03] <joel jaeggli> boris y - telus - consistency of quos control
[8/2/12 11:07:08] Joel Jaeggli: lorenzo - option b only exists because of bad job a specifiy per interface protocol counters.
[8/2/12 11:08:00] Joel Jaeggli: warren k - the ietf counters are built using a
[8/2/12 11:08:45] Joel Jaeggli: tim chown - just another example when mentioning that tradeoff (vendor gap)
[8/2/12 11:10:32] Joel Jaeggli: ? -
[18:11:57] <joel jaeggli> bill f - hardware issue
[18:12:06] <joel jaeggli> it's in the 2006 spec
[18:12:30] <joel jaeggli> marc blanchett - have seen it in providers we're supporting
[18:13:10] <joel jaeggli> beorn z - in favor of a
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[18:17:08] <joel jaeggli> joel j - a
[18:17:17] <joel jaeggli> er b sorry
[18:20:33] <joel jaeggli> ron b control plan acl -
[18:21:57] <joel jaeggli> lorenzo - a breaks traceroute - e.g. when there are multiple links.
[18:23:46] <joel jaeggli> marc blanchett - would be great to have one but I doubt the level of consensus will reise to than inclusive of nanog/
[18:25:49] <joel jaeggli> fred - expect to see ongoing work - should we be adopting this?
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[18:27:19] <joel jaeggli> hum, more in favor than opposed not strog though. lets continue working it
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[18:27:24] <joel jaeggli> we're adjourned
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