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[11:03:31] g.e.montenegro joins the room [11:04:31] Tore Anderson joins the room [11:04:34] "south 40" translates really well outside american culture. not. [11:04:37] Tore Anderson is now known as tore [11:04:53] jpc joins the room [11:04:57] tore leaves the room [11:05:10] Carsten Strotmann leaves the room [11:05:38] Ashida joins the room [11:05:39] Hyong-Jong Paik joins the room [11:05:41] fdupont joins the room [11:05:50] Meeting starting [11:06:19] kawashimam joins the room [11:06:21] Carsten Strotmann joins the room [11:06:22] Tore Anderson joins the room [11:06:27] Tore Anderson leaves the room [11:06:31] Atarashi Yoshifumi joins the room [11:07:38] Fred is asking who is speaking for the BBF liaison… no reply. [11:07:54] Sri presenting: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gundavelli-v6ops-l2-unicast-01 [11:08:15] Tore Anderson joins the room [11:08:23] Tore Anderson is now known as tore [11:08:27] tore leaves the room [11:08:32] rbonica joins the room [11:08:57] Presentation http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/v6ops-0.ppt [11:08:58] dudisaki joins the room [11:09:17] Randy Bush leaves the room [11:09:55] Ole Troan leaves the room: Disconnected. [11:10:51] Ole Troan joins the room [11:11:51] behcet.sarikaya joins the room [11:11:55] Andy Davidson (NetSumo) leaves the room [11:12:09] weiber joins the room [11:12:52] Sri asking for the document to be progressed quickly. [11:13:03] Fred agrees, and calls it a no brainer [11:13:29] Suresh Krishnan on the mike [11:13:31] Tore Anderson joins the room [11:13:37] Tore Anderson is now known as tore [11:13:57] tore leaves the room [11:14:23] who is at the mike? comment that this should apply to both IPv6 _and_ IPv4. [11:14:56] Phil Roberts [11:15:20] nordmark joins the room [11:15:45] Fred wants to take the document to last call. [11:15:54] Simon Perreault joins the room [11:16:11] Dave Thaler [11:16:22] asks if v4 should be added before LC? [11:17:11] HUI joins the room [11:17:52] next presentation: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-v6-in-mobile-networks-01 [11:19:05] Chris Griffiths joins the room [11:20:11] marshall joins the room [11:20:18] Hello [11:20:28] yo [11:20:34] Chris Griffiths leaves the room [11:20:43] I volunteered to jabber scribe - sorry I am late [11:21:04] PDN can carry v4 and v6 traffic [11:21:32] v4 address is deferred v6 address is assigned at creation [11:21:45] how DCHP is triggered is internal to the modem [11:21:51] joonhyung Lim joins the room [11:21:55] say, at the time of binding [11:22:13] this is another way to defer in a dual stack PDN [11:22:44] discussion on a splin MN [11:23:00] dongle may not support DCHP, but the attached laptop will [11:23:15] need to control when the DHCP request is triggered [11:23:20] this is an implementation nightmare, at least on common PC OSes [11:23:25] OK, then I'll rest on my laurels (Fred volunteered me for jabbering until you showed up) [11:23:34] Chris Griffiths joins the room [11:23:37] some deploymentsuse this [11:23:48] the draft have text reflecting these 3 cases [11:24:19] text added on v6 only deployments [11:24:23] Ashida leaves the room [11:24:35] but text added stating that dual stack is preferred [11:24:42] v6 only should be [11:24:53] "looked into" - say for mobiles [11:25:04] while doing this, issues with roaming [11:25:09] Chris Griffiths leaves the room [11:25:13] tore joins the room [11:25:24] if the roam network is v4 only, have to assign v4 addresses [11:25:31] anthony.baire joins the room [11:25:35] likewise, incoming v4 roamers [11:25:39] have to be supported [11:25:58] question as to when v6 only is likely [11:26:07] need - further input, especially on FMC [11:26:32] the section doesn't go into details [11:27:08] Dave Thaler : So, I didn't see the dual stack extra light [11:27:21] model - why is that not relevant ? [11:27:51] A : I didn't want to analyze any particular protocol [11:28:24] Thaler : Does the host get a (non-unique) v4 address immediately or does it wait for a unique one [11:28:27] mwm leaves the room [11:28:33] behcet.sarikaya leaves the room [11:28:34] Andy Davidson (NetSumo) joins the room [11:28:42] once you put a PC in there, many applications don't work with "on demand" [11:28:56] We know what works and what doesn't [11:29:47] A: This relies on the mobile node using the dongle as a modem, saying "I want to use this as on demand" [11:30:03] on demand means that the host has to be able to indicate this capability [11:30:18] Thaler : Why are you ONLY considering ondemand models [11:30:20] mwm joins the room [11:30:41] there are two models, and I expected a consideration of both - but you only do one - why ? [11:31:05] A : It is opt in from the mobile - you can always ask for an IPv5 address [11:31:42] Claude V : Juniper : Is this in alignment with the 3GPP guidelines [11:31:57] mwm leaves the room [11:32:03] FJB joins the room [11:32:25] Chris Griffiths joins the room [11:32:33] A; This document is, as the title says, a look at how to do dual stack, and PDN seems to be the way to do it [11:33:04] There are also v6 only deployments, due to the address criunch being felt in modems [11:33:07] mwm joins the room [11:33:31] Claude : Do we want to give guidance to 3GPP on how to do v6 deployments [11:33:54] A : If you want to deploy v6 today in mobile networks, these are the things that come up [11:34:08] we have a recommended model, dual stack [11:34:16] it looks like that is good enough [11:34:19] you can do it [11:34:28] mrichardson leaves the room [11:34:51] It also goes into what you need to do for v6 only deployments [11:34:52] satoru.matsushima@jabber.jp joins the room [11:35:05] things like NAT list maintenance, etc. [11:35:17] this document is to let the operators chose what they want to do [11:35:30] are you saying we should consider doing [11:35:33] recommendations [11:36:03] Claude : The network is always going to assign v6 addreses [11:36:15] and then use DHCP [11:36:38] A; DHCP is an option - the host has to say, I support this. That is there in the draft [11:36:57] Claude : Split MN - that is widely debated in 3GPP [11:37:21] A: This comes into play be [11:37:34] mrichardson joins the room [11:37:43] before addressing. You should always use v6 as a default [11:37:56] there are two ways to defer addressing [11:38:04] the PDN is not established [11:38:16] but, in a dual stack, the PDN is already there. [11:38:34] mobile handsets typically do not support DHCP [11:38:46] but laptops do [11:39:20] Claude ; Your USB dongle has DHCP. Does the stack sit in the dongle [11:39:23] dthaler joins the room [11:39:33] dthaler leaves the room [11:39:55] [11:40:10] There is a disjoint that I see. [11:40:22] I thought that the dongle had the DHCP "server", which really just translates to some mobile address protocol (maybe ppp). [11:41:13] A : The interface befween the terminal equipment and the dongle, typically the dongle has a driver. That sets what PDN you will use [11:41:44] there are two ways to do this - this dongle can support v4 v6, but I am only going to support v6, for example [11:42:11] Q : The capability of the dongle, the dongle doesn't support it but the host does [11:42:34] A; THe dongle becomes a bridge, with configuration to limit what the host can do [11:42:43] Fred Baker : I think that this has been discussion [11:42:56] I would like to get a couple of good reviews on this [11:43:08] [BTW, the presenter has been Rajiv Koodli, formerly of Starent and now of Cisco.] [11:43:19] Lars joins the room [11:43:29] DaveO joins the room [11:43:32] Dave, Kent, can you look at this and do a revew - also Jonne [?] [11:43:44] post these to the lists and we can have a discussion [11:43:53] I think that the document is reasonably close [11:44:21] We should be able to go to WGLC in September with these [11:44:28] Chris Griffiths leaves the room [11:44:38] Next : CPE Router question [11:45:01] Lars leaves the room [11:45:18] Hemant Singh : updates since Anaheim [11:45:24] bnsmith joins the room [11:45:36] now on [11:45:46] a few updates since Anaheim [11:45:59] RFC 3315 is loose on what a host should do [11:46:24] Lars joins the room [11:46:25] the DUID MUST NOT change between network interface or CE router resets [11:46:45] these are serious problems and promoted some changes [11:46:50] Chris Griffiths joins the room [11:47:08] one more thing was to not reference 4389 and ref 4861 instead [11:47:23] LE joins the room [11:47:28] Proxing v6 ND neighbor advertisement [11:47:50] 6man didn't want to move 4389 to standards track [11:48:03] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [11:48:03] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [11:48:03] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [11:48:08] Lars leaves the room [11:48:20] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [11:48:20] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [11:48:20] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [11:48:20] So, this is a big change [11:48:47] mrichardson leaves the room [11:48:57] Future Work : needs to be picked up by the WG [11:49:02] and fix any remaining issues [11:49:11] multi-homing being one [11:49:23] QUestions ? [11:49:46] Fred Baker : Please read and comment on this and see if there is anything else [11:50:12] Let's ask the question : how many people have read it [11:50:17] A few hands, maybe 10 [11:50:32] How many people feel this is ready to become a WG document [11:50:40] I see a couple of hands [11:50:52] How many people feel it's not ready yet ? [11:51:01] I see a number of hands [11:51:40] New presentation : Avoiding NAT 66 [11:51:43] LE is now known as Lars [11:51:43] Lars is now known as LE [11:51:51] Fred : They just sent me new slides [11:52:08] Dan Wing is the presenter [11:52:09] mrichardson joins the room [11:52:14] there is a BOF [11:52:18] new slides gonna get posted? [11:52:21] Why I am here ? [11:52:33] we are on Avoiding NAT66/draft-troan-multhoming...? [11:52:45] I believe so [11:52:59] Most people do not want NAT66 [11:53:01] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [11:53:01] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [11:53:17] can we reduce reasons to deploy NAT66 [11:53:33] sm joins the room [11:53:42] idea : acceleration standards and implementations to not need NAT66 [11:54:19] draft-mrw-behave-nat66 [11:54:27] NAT66 is not [11:54:45] - sharing ip addresses [11:55:01] Zhen Tsao joins the room [11:55:07] goal : give the host multiple prefixes and have it work correctly [11:55:14] not yet acheivable [11:55:28] here is a diagram showing what happens today [11:55:41] bnsmith leaves the room: v6ops@jabber.ietf.org [11:55:41] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:41] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:41] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:41] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:41] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:41] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:41] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:42] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:43] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:43] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:43] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:43] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:43] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:43] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:43] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:43] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:43] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:43] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:43] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:43] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:44] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:44] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:44] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:44] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:44] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:44] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:44] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:44] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:44] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:44] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:45] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:45] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:45] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:45] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:45] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:45] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:45] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:45] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:45] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:45] brian.bnsmith leaves the room [11:55:46] brian.bnsmith joins the room [11:55:58] jmohacsi joins the room [11:56:10] today : v4 a router will make a decision as to what goes where and with what address [11:56:19] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [11:56:21] so, the router decides policy [11:56:26] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [11:56:32] very good diagram to explain the world. [11:56:44] LE is now known as Lars [11:56:55] [11:57:11] same scenario in IPv6 [11:57:44] Jan Boogman joins the room [11:57:45] want v6 hosts get to the internet and v6 hosts inside another enterprisee [11:58:01] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [11:58:10] simple way is to map v4 attribiutes into v6 [11:58:16] and that means a NAT [11:58:35] we would like to avoid routers making policy decisions [11:59:00] to do that the host should have multiple prefixes and pick which one to sue [11:59:01] use [11:59:04] Chris Griffiths leaves the room [11:59:04] Chris Griffiths joins the room [11:59:05] :) [11:59:39] Today, DNS servers (say) almost always pick the wrong address to use [11:59:57] bnsmith leaves the room [12:00:05] We have identify if the host can or cannot handle multple prefixes correctly [12:00:10] bnsmith joins the room [12:00:49] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [12:01:02] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [12:01:02] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [12:01:03] Question : Let's say you have a single prefix - you can send some data to one prefix and some to another [12:01:19] A ; now you can't [12:01:44] Lars is now known as LE [12:01:53] the point is the VPN gateway at the enterprise end is *NOT* the *one* default gateway for the enterprise. [12:02:03] how does the host know what traffic should go to the VPN and what should go to the Internet [12:02:09] the enterprise has multiple egress gateways, and most of them are not the VPN gateway(s). [12:02:24] The enterprise would like to have enterprise addresses inside of the network [12:02:28] in v4 or v6 [12:02:40] [people at the mike are not saying their names clearly] [12:02:54] Q ; Why is NAT66 not desireable [12:02:56] it's not about de-aggregation. It's about enterprise network architecture. [12:03:03] [heresy !] [12:03:25] LE leaves the room [12:03:25] A; I am trying to find reasons to reduce the need for NAT66 [12:03:57] DaveO leaves the room [12:04:15] Q: Most protocols are used in enterprise networks [12:04:36] Dan : This also occurs at an ISP that is not [12:04:41] using a VPN [12:04:48] jinmei joins the room [12:04:59] FJB leaves the room [12:05:24] FJB joins the room [12:05:28] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [12:05:28] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [12:05:55] Chris Morrow : Working with a large corporate network, there are enterprises when you get v6 addresses for all sites, but you may ntot [12:06:23] I have not seen anyone solve this in v6 [12:06:38] thought: why not just establish a tunnel between the policy controller and the vpn endpoint? [12:07:10] It's nice to see a move about taking about enterprises can use v6 [12:07:36] Q : IPv6 is expected to give a separate address to every node [12:07:47] Chris Griffiths leaves the room [12:07:48] if you want private addressing [12:07:58] People can look at my draft [12:08:21] to Marshall: use ULA [12:08:36] Goert ? : THere is a sensible reason to use NAT66 in the environment [12:08:57] mrichardson leaves the room [12:08:57] (Gunter van der Velde) [12:09:29] I am not a big lover of NATs, but from a router perspective is makes sense [12:10:03] Q ; Can you go back to the previous slide? [12:10:21] Couldn't you just establish a tunnel [12:10:29] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [12:10:41] If the functions are not on the same box why not use a tunnel [12:11:20] You have a router that uses IPsec for some destinations and not the other [12:11:34] A; It works in one direction, but not the other [12:12:05] mrichardson joins the room [12:12:12] Elly Toman [?] : Why are we wasting time on an enterprise solution [12:12:28] Dan : This also happens at NTT Japan [12:12:35] Melinda leaves the room [12:12:40] Fred Baker : Enterprise networks are part of the Internet [12:12:58] HUI leaves the room [12:13:00] Q : Enterprises want to do things that don't make sense [12:13:18] They want to use one address block all over the world [12:13:50] Meanwhile, home users still cannot connect to v6 [12:14:28] Fred : The BAR BOF on Wednesday evening is based on the NTT problems [12:14:56] they do not want to deploy v6 [12:15:06] Fred : I am going call this question [12:15:20] Dan : Slide 12 shows a slide where this problem [12:15:29] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [12:15:29] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [12:15:37] Ted : What's broken is that the source address selection is being done wrong [12:15:59] Dan : Let's fix that, and we get rid of 3 reasons to have NAT 66 [12:16:34] satoru.matsushima joins the room [12:16:39] Next problem - next-hop route selection 41919 does this but there is a problem [12:17:05] another problem is DNS server selelction [12:17:23] queries need to go to the correct DNS server [12:17:45] finally, what does the host understand [12:17:54] scope of new work [12:18:05] Wes Beebee joins the room [12:18:09] page 16 - too much to write down [12:18:16] page 17 - related documents [12:18:35] BAR BOF 20:00 Wednesday somewhere in the MECC [12:19:28] Eric Nordmark [?] : Route selection and source selection are coupled, but you are doing these in 2 places [12:19:34] Dan : Good question [12:19:45] Fred : Common authorship helps [12:20:16] Tony Aim : Buried in my draft there is something that will help with route selection [12:20:22] Ole Troan leaves the room: Disconnected. [12:20:29] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [12:20:29] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [12:20:33] I will pill it out and make a new draft of it [12:20:39] Next : BBF [12:21:06] BBF Liaison: Functional Requirements for Broadband Residential Gateway Devices TR-124 Issue 2 [https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=922] [12:21:11] Carsten Strotmann leaves the room [12:21:24] Ole Troan joins the room [12:21:24] The Broadband Forum sent a letter to the IETF [12:21:34] Carsten Strotmann joins the room [12:21:50] Some of the interests was in documents from this WG [12:22:06] advanced router and firewall requirements [12:22:36] mrichardson leaves the room [12:22:52] Fred : A question I have for BBF is, what does it mean to be interested ? [12:23:12] liaison 922 is the relevant document [12:23:22] satoru.matsushima@jabber.jp leaves the room [12:23:27] they want comments from the IETF [12:23:42] other WG will also look at this [12:23:52] they want comments from us [12:24:00] comment to the list and we will collect them [12:25:15] Speaker : The BBF does not specify new protocols [12:25:31] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [12:25:31] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [12:26:31] mrichardson joins the room [12:26:44] we specialize in specifying bits and pieces that you have to [12:27:09] have to make a working system [12:27:16] dthaler joins the room [12:27:27] sm leaves the room [12:27:35] a single document that a vendor can respond to in a RFP [12:27:49] Dave Miles was the speaker [12:27:53] from the BBF [12:28:03] Chris Griffiths joins the room [12:28:07] Q : Where do you want comments sent ? [12:28:12] tony joins the room [12:28:29] A : We will track the v6 ops list, so send it there [12:29:07] Fred : We have 1/2 an hour [12:29:39] We will address [12:29:41] A Basic Guideline for Listing ISPs that Run IPv6 [http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kawamura-ipv6-isp-listings] 11-Jun-10, [12:29:45] dthaler leaves the room [12:30:00] Seiichi [12:30:06] Kawamura [12:30:12] is the presenter [12:30:30] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [12:30:45] There are several lists of ISPs with IPv6 working [12:30:53] ipv6forum [12:30:59] labs.ripe.net [http://labs.ripe.net] [12:31:12] www.sixxs.net [http://www.sixxs.net] [12:31:16] ipv6.he.net [http://ipv6.he.net] [12:31:24] some are just collections of names [12:31:36] what are the criteria ? [12:32:00] is there a valid v6 prefix with valid AS routing to it [12:32:07] is reverese DNS setup [12:32:32] some lists trust the implementers [12:32:34] etc [12:33:03] FJB leaves the room [12:33:11] FJB joins the room [12:33:21] mrichardson leaves the room [12:33:21] As I was routing this draft, I started going into details, there are common checking criteria [12:33:28] advantages : [12:33:39] less confusion for users [12:34:13] can act a as minimum requirement for ISPs [12:34:19] to give them ideas [12:34:34] there is a task force on v4 exhaustion in Japan [12:34:46] I was appointed to figure out things to check [12:35:30] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [12:35:30] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [12:35:40] Lee Howard : These are great. On the advanced reverse DNS. You don't say whether or not this is lame [12:35:58] I don't have PCRs for all of my customers [12:36:19] Also, there is a missing requirement to PROVIDE IPv6 service [12:36:30] an access provider should provide access [12:36:45] just having the web site on v6 is not enough [12:37:04] Lars : I strongly support that [12:37:25] mcharlesr joins the room [12:37:27] Also, I regard PMTUD as basic, not advanced. 100 % [12:37:55] Alan [?] Juniper : You want to distinguish between experiments and operational networks [12:38:08] I like the criteria very much. [12:38:20] narten joins the room [12:38:24] difference is - when you call the 800 number, is there someone who can talk about it [12:38:28] dthaler joins the room [12:38:38] do you get support [12:38:41] dthaler leaves the room [12:38:47] dthaler joins the room [12:39:16] A : So, I should put in customer support as advanced [12:39:17] not everyone cares about "1800" --- it's about whether I can get support. [12:39:23] Q ; 24 x 7 [12:39:36] good point from alain. There is a distinction between "production service" vs. "unsupported". There is a level of real commitment with the former, compared with the latter. [12:39:36] Andy Davidson (NetSumo) leaves the room [12:39:53] FJB leaves the room [12:39:54] Alex : You should have a web page that describes your IPv6 [12:40:01] FJB joins the room [12:40:06] this document would have been very useful a few months ago for the Canadian IPv6 task Force. I hope it will go forward in some form (Informational?) [12:40:14] I think fewer organizations will match this revised criteria - but I think it's better because it pushes people to really put IPv6 on par with IPv4... [12:40:30] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [12:40:30] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [12:40:38] Alex : what is your goal - there are already a lot of lists [12:40:59] comment Alex: I don't think a single web page do. It is much better if IPv6 is integrated in every service description [12:41:01] Lars joins the room [12:41:27] why 24/7? Is this document trying to DEFINE ISP requirements or are we trying document and capture them in a consistent manner? [12:41:29] I think he should publish as Informational. This is what the Japanese Task Force on IPv4 Address Exhaustion is doing. [12:41:49] Kurtis ; These lists are not authoriative [12:42:14] having a document like this, you would have a common criteria [12:42:39] Comment to infromational RFC: most people would take as a strict requirements.... [12:42:58] after the draft is ready, I would hope that you would approach these lists and get them to adopt it [12:43:39] Ed Jankowicz : I am a trial v6 user. The router I have says "You May Not Call Customer Service" about this [12:43:45] this is not either or [12:43:51] experiments are valuable [12:44:08] hide.zebra joins the room [12:44:14] I would encourage everything to be evaluated by these criteria [12:44:16] sm joins the room [12:44:19] re: capabilities. Nothing stops the listing making people from presenting these requirements as a matrix. These are just the columns, and you get a "star" for each. [12:44:42] Seiichi : Experiments are important [12:44:50] Or graded levels "Experimental" or "Production" [12:45:12] Q : I don't like basic and advanced [12:45:20] basic is pretty low [12:45:31] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [12:45:31] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [12:45:33] basic is really experimental [12:45:47] Seiichi : How many people would feel comfortable with that [12:45:49] I prefer "basic" and "production" [12:45:56] [fair number of hands] [12:46:06] how about just getting rid of the distinction, it's just a list of capabilities after all [12:46:35] Q: Can the ISPs have v6 spam fillters [12:46:51] Seiichi : Discussions on list [12:47:01] what slide are we at? [12:47:40] "DISCUSSIONS ON LIST" [12:47:49] is the title - there is no # visible [12:47:56] comment to naming: ipv6 capable server can be advanced for a pure transit provider, while reverse DNS and PMTUD is basic for a content provider [12:48:19] Q : I don't think you want to go too far on these criteria [12:48:21] fdupont leaves the room: Computer went to sleep [12:48:32] Q : I want to echo Ed's comment RE Support [12:49:25] FJB leaves the room [12:49:30] I have seem fantastic support [12:49:34] FJB joins the room [12:49:45] you get the "v6 guy" as opposed to a tier 1 guy [12:50:06] Andy Davidson (NetSumo) joins the room [12:50:19] Q : reverse DNS is a requirement [12:50:20] dthaler leaves the room [12:50:29] dthaler joins the room [12:50:31] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [12:50:31] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [12:50:59] the new vulneability is that if you have all hosts in the reverse DNS, you can scan all hosts [12:51:16] Seiichi : reverse DNS does have issues [12:51:37] anthony.baire leaves the room [12:51:39] We're using rather a western set of ideals when we consider support and availability of services. I'd prefer to think in terms of an organisation offering ipv6 access services "that they expect to work", and they use whichever process for measuring this situation, and supporting their users that they do for v4. [12:51:48] Q : We are building this so that we have v6 as a real service [12:51:58] comment to reverse dns entries: you are not allowing zone transfer. public servers you can scan an anyway [12:52:07] … or don't support them, in the way they do for v4. :-) [12:52:13] Chris Griffiths leaves the room [12:52:37] Kurtis : Full production is called parity [12:52:53] not all of these providers do all of this in v4 today [12:53:28] Q: Didn't John Currans draft have nomenclature like that (basic, full, etc.) [12:53:58] Atarashi Yoshifumi leaves the room [12:54:26] Q : Is one v6 server sufficient [12:54:42] Q: I would called "advanced" "extended" [12:54:55] Seiichi - basic and extended [12:55:03] Chris Griffiths joins the room [12:55:31] brian.bnsmith is now known as bnsmith [12:55:43] nordmark leaves the room [12:56:07] John [Comcast] : Full support will not happen overnight [12:56:14] it's part of the process [12:56:28] sm leaves the room [12:56:35] embrace it [12:56:55] Dave Thaler : A lot of the discussion has to do with levels of support and so on [12:57:05] it does refer to 4084 [12:57:17] but it does not refer to 5211 [12:57:37] I would not recommend using their terms [12:57:56] rhe@wiki.ja.net leaves the room [12:58:41] well I'm neither recommending for nor against using their terms [12:58:50] Fred Baker : What trajectory would you like to see [12:59:40] Fred : How many people feel this should become an RFC ? [12:59:56] Or should we just advise him ? [13:00:03] I see hands either way ? [13:00:21] Simon Perreault leaves the room [13:00:22] How many people feel this is inappropriate for this WG [13:00:32] bnsmith is now known as brian.bnsmith [13:00:34] about 1/2 a dozen [13:01:27] Q : A comment on names. 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