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[10:56:29] <Meetecho> Yep, we can hear you!
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[10:57:36] <Robin Wilton> Greetings, fellow virtual IETFers :^)
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[10:58:00] <Nancy Cam-Winget> Good morning Robin
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[10:58:24] <Hannes Tschofenig> I guess you couldn't hear me
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[10:59:24] <Robin Wilton> Sorry Nancy, that was a mistake... wrong icon.
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[11:01:17] <Quynh Dang> This is my first time using this online tool. How do I know if I am on mute or not ? Thanks.
[11:01:24] <Dave Thaler> yes
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[11:02:01] <Dave Thaler> you're on mute if you see a hand and a triangle on the two mic icons.  You're not muted if you see a square on one.
[11:02:02] <Meetecho> Quynh Dang: you're muted by default. The UI where your name s changes when you're granted the floor. Please check the video tutorial we recorded for more info
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[11:03:05] <Robin Wilton> Happy to take notes, Nancy
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[11:03:07] <mcr> I will take notes too.
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[11:03:51] <Quynh Dang> Perfect! Thank you Robin and Meetecho!
[11:03:54] <Hannes Tschofenig> This is a pretty nice tool.
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[11:04:19] <Quynh Dang> Thanks Hannes!
[11:05:10] <Dave Thaler> @meetecho, any way to get the chat window to scroll automatically to keep new chats in view?
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[11:07:14] <Dave Thaler> if Ming isn't on yet do you want to reorder?
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[11:10:10] <Mingliang Pei> hi
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[11:14:26] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I'm so used to only seeing 6125 and 7525 for certificate-validation
procedures that it's almost strange to see 2818 listed as well.
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[11:15:29] <Tirumaleswar Reddy.K> bcp56bis still refers to 2818
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[11:16:53] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Thanks Dave!
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[11:26:14] <Hannes Tschofenig> MUST NOT is fine for me
[11:26:28] <Akira Tsukamoto> Must not is fine
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[11:31:37] <Akira Tsukamoto> Fine to move the section 3 to Architecture doc
[11:31:50] <大居 司> I second this.
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[11:35:29] <mcr> type maybe.
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[11:36:54] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Ming, please feel free to type a status update if you know more about
your audio situation.
[11:37:17] <Mingliang Pei> i am here
[11:37:28] <Mingliang Pei> yes
[11:37:35] <Akira Tsukamoto> Ming, we can not here
[11:37:37] <Mingliang Pei> i am speaking now
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[11:37:51] <Meetecho> Mingliang Pei: do you see the waveform moving under your name?
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[11:38:15] <Meetecho> I suspect the mic is muted at the OS level (or maybe the wrong one was chosen when joined?)
[11:38:18] <mcr> It sounds like your audio RTP stream got killed by some security device.  Maybe reload.
[11:38:25] <mcr> We did hear him briefly.
[11:38:44] <Meetecho> Got it, then yes, something killing the stream may be what's happening
[11:38:59] <mcr> (this is why we need to have both local feedback, and network feedback to speakers...)
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[11:40:23] <Mingliang Pei> hi I am back
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[11:42:38] <Hannes Tschofenig> Welcome back, Ming!
[11:42:51] <Meetecho> Mingliang Pei: when you get the audio floor again, please check if you see the waveform moving while you talk (it will appear under your name, upper left corner)
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[11:45:22] <Hannes Tschofenig> (a) sounds right to me too
[11:45:37] <大居 司> (a) might be good.
[11:45:44] <Russ Housley> +1
[11:45:46] <Hannes Tschofenig> Do we really need to change the architecture document?
[11:46:15] <Akira Tsukamoto> Maybe (a), both (a) or (b) are tough to implimenting..
[11:46:22] <Hannes Tschofenig> Fair enough.
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[11:46:49] <大居 司> Sorry, I ("Tsukasa OI") didn't know "Full Name (Unicode)" field is displayed here.
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[11:48:09] <Hannes Tschofenig> IMHO TEEP examples of SUIT have to be described in the TEEP protocol document. We just have not managed to add something yet
[11:48:21] <mcr> agreed
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[11:48:33] <Brendan Moran> I'm happy to provide examples, but I think they need to be in TEEP, not SUIT.
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[11:50:07] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> (not for mic) if we have automated tooling to validate the example
SUIT manifests (CDDL verifier?), that will help the directorate/IESG
reviewers
[11:50:34] <Hannes Tschofenig> Didn't we discuss the use of filenames already?
[11:51:00] <Hannes Tschofenig> Just as Brendan said. We should include that in the draft
[11:52:25] <Hannes Tschofenig> @Ben: We a tool to create manifests written by Brendan, maybe it also does the verification part as well. He should ask him.
[11:53:00] <Hannes Tschofenig> s/We a tool to create ../ Brendan wrote a tool to create manifests, ...
[11:53:32] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Even knowing that the manifest examples were automatically generated
is helpful (but a dedicated validation step is still best)
[11:54:09] <Hannes Tschofenig> We talked about the use of the component ids on the mailing lists.
[11:55:12] <Hannes Tschofenig> @Ben: You are right that it would be very difficult for a review to verify the examples given that we are using layers of technologies - COSE/CBOR/CDDL/SUIT
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[11:56:27] <Brendan Moran> We don't currently have a verifier tool. We do have CDDL. We do have binary versions of the examples. I do not currently pipe the examples through the CDDL, but I expect to be adding that shortly.
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[11:56:50] <Hannes Tschofenig> The answer to this question depends on whether people want to use TEEP for SGX
[11:56:59] <大居 司> My opinion for #13: (b) ((a) would be okay too)
[11:57:13] <Hannes Tschofenig> If so, then I would go for (a)
[11:57:42] <Hannes Tschofenig> (a) would be easy to add to the spec
[11:57:51] <Kuniyasu Suzaki> A) looks good.
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[11:58:41] <Hannes Tschofenig> I wanted to point out that I added another issue to the TEEP protocol at https://github.com/ietf-teep/teep-protocol/issues/43
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[11:58:55] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Brendan: great news; thanks!  I think we still have some time for that
to happen before the reviews I'm thinking about would be happening.
[11:58:56] <Hannes Tschofenig> I believe I posted it to the list some time ago but it kind of got lost in the discussions
[11:59:00] <Dave Thaler> thanks hannes
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[12:00:39] <Dave Thaler> we covered this one already
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[12:00:57] <Hannes Tschofenig> I guess you should go, Dave
[12:01:53] <mcr> Is Ming behind Great Firewall?
[12:02:49] <Brendan Moran> @ben: if you raise an issue in GitHub.com/https://github.com/ARMmbed/suit-manifest-generator or https://github.com/suit-wg/manifest-spec then it might be easier to track.
[12:03:26] <Hannes Tschofenig> CA definition - Isn't there something in the PKIX RFC?
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[12:03:50] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Surely there's a definition in RFC 4949
[12:03:53] <Russ Housley> +1
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[12:04:13] <Brendan Moran> I prefer Authority in these scenarios
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[12:04:37] <Brendan Moran> Author vs Administrator
[12:05:10] <Russ Housley> Certification Authority is used in X.509 and RFC 5280
[12:05:23] <Hannes Tschofenig> We should use the PKIX terminology instead of inventing our own. Makes no sense for a term like CA
[12:06:15] <Tsukasa OI> +1 for Hannes (about terms)
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[12:06:46] <Hannes Tschofenig> If we add an example to the TEEP protocol then the topic of key transport/key agreement will be clearer
[12:06:48] <Akira Tsukamoto> We lost Ming again?
[12:06:57] <Tsukasa OI> I think so.
[12:07:18] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Unfortunate that Ming is having such persistent network issues.
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[12:12:06] <Hannes Tschofenig> Referring to trusted displays is useful because this is a common use case in a TrustZone-based system
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[12:12:38] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Okay, opened https://github.com/suit-wg/manifest-spec/issues/28 to
help us remember the example-validation topic
[12:13:50] <Dave Thaler> +1 to hannes comment above in chat.  no need to mic relay
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[12:15:13] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I think we lost Ming again, yes
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[12:16:53] <Akira Tsukamoto> Kohei is going to talk first, I will talk page 8 and 9
[12:17:44] <Hannes Tschofenig> FWIW I am still working on the encrypted TA binaries. The other stuff took longer than expected and I am actually on sabbatical leave doing other stuff as well
[12:19:05] <Dave Thaler> mine is both TAM and TEEP Agent side implementations, in C (for TA) and C++ (for the broker)
[12:21:45] <Hannes Tschofenig> Here is the setup I am using: TAM based on Java with COSE/CBOR implementation by Jim and SUIT manifest tool by Brendan. The TEEP Agent is written in C and uses the CBOR &amp; COSE libraries from Laurence with crypto provided by Mbed TLS. For the SUIT parser I used the code from Brendan.
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[12:22:34] <Dave Thaler> correction: mine is not C#
[12:22:45] <Dave Thaler> as noted about mine is C/C++
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[12:28:29] <Dave Thaler> I'm using Laurence's CBOR/COSE libraries and mbedtls for crypto too.
[12:28:32] <ko-isobe> Thanks for pointing out my miswritten
[12:29:59] <Dave Thaler> FYI, Keystone is in the process of being submitted to the Confidential Computing Consortium (which I have talked about in TEEP before, but the keystone submission is new)
[12:30:50] <Nancy Cam-Winget> will keystone be open source?
[12:30:55] <Dave Thaler> yes, already is
[12:31:15] <Kuniyasu Suzaki> Keystone HP https://keystone-enclave.org/
[12:31:29] <Nancy Cam-Winget> great!
[12:31:57] <Dave Thaler> https://github.com/keystone-enclave is the actual github rep
[12:32:06] <Hannes Tschofenig> Btw, a few persons were missing in the list, namely
[12:32:08] <Hannes Tschofenig> * Brendan
[12:32:35] <Hannes Tschofenig> * Koen
[12:32:36] <Dave Thaler> TEEP Protocol should be later
[12:32:45] <Dave Thaler> will not be ready by Aug for WGLC
[12:33:05] <Hannes Tschofenig> It was great to have some many folks at the recent hackathon. While the virtual version was good it is still very, very different from the f2f version we had earlier this year in Berlin.
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[12:33:52] <Hannes Tschofenig> I would also agree that August is not realistic for WGLC of the TEEP protocol because I will be off grid in August
[12:34:19] <ko-isobe> I'll fixed my slides! Is there any non-written persons? Hannes
[12:34:54] <Hannes Tschofenig> I would put the completion date for the architecture doc in September
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[12:35:42] <Hannes Tschofenig> @ko-isobe: Michael Richardson was there as too
[12:35:59] <mcr> what did I do?
[12:36:14] <mcr> I wasn't really there.
[12:36:27] <ko-isobe> ok
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[12:36:39] <mcr> I was there in body, but not spirit :-(
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[12:37:41] <Hannes Tschofenig> Are we in a rush with the transport?
[12:37:48] <Dave Thaler> my opinion is transport spec should have same date as arch date
[12:38:39] <Hannes Tschofenig> As we are making progress the protocol spec and the implementation we learn more about the transport
[12:39:33] <Dave Thaler> we have implementations already of the transport (because it worked for OTrP)
[12:39:38] <Dave Thaler> unlikely to change in my view
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[12:41:32] <Hannes Tschofenig> Your logic makes sense, Dave. Let's make progress with the protocol and then we are able to finish both in the near future
[12:41:57] <Hannes Tschofenig> My hope is that we finish the protocol by November
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[12:42:18] <Hannes Tschofenig> Thank you all. Enjoy the summer
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[12:42:26] <Akira Tsukamoto> Thank you!
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