IETF
suit
suit@jabber.ietf.org
Friday, July 30, 2021< ^ >
mcr has set the subject to: SUIT at IETF 108
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
[18:31:35] Meetecho joins the room
[18:45:07] Alessandro Toppi_web_653 joins the room
[18:45:07] Hannes Tschofenig_web_650 joins the room
[18:47:00] meetecho-alexamirante joins the room
[18:47:13] Dave Thaler_web_915 joins the room
[18:47:17] meetecho-alexamirante has set the subject to: SUIT at IETF 111
[18:48:43] <Hannes Tschofenig_web_650> Hi all
[18:49:16] David Waltermire_web_168 joins the room
[18:50:08] David Waltermire_web_168 leaves the room
[18:50:12] David Waltermire_web_570 joins the room
[18:50:18] David Waltermire_web_570 leaves the room
[18:50:22] David Waltermire_web_852 joins the room
[18:50:26] David Waltermire_web_852 leaves the room
[18:50:30] David Waltermire_web_409 joins the room
[18:50:36] David Waltermire_web_409 leaves the room
[18:50:40] David Waltermire_web_975 joins the room
[18:50:43] David Waltermire_web_975 leaves the room
[18:50:47] David Waltermire_web_613 joins the room
[18:50:49] Masashi Kikuchi_web_634 joins the room
[18:50:51] David Waltermire_web_613 leaves the room
[18:50:55] David Waltermire_web_177 joins the room
[18:51:00] David Waltermire_web_177 leaves the room
[18:51:00] Koen leaves the room
[18:51:04] David Waltermire_web_104 joins the room
[18:51:04] Koen joins the room
[18:51:10] David Waltermire_web_104 leaves the room
[18:51:14] David Waltermire_web_968 joins the room
[18:51:18] David Waltermire_web_968 leaves the room
[18:51:22] David Waltermire_web_563 joins the room
[18:51:27] David Waltermire_web_563 leaves the room
[18:51:31] David Waltermire_web_712 joins the room
[18:51:32] David Waltermire_web_712 leaves the room
[18:51:36] David Waltermire_web_652 joins the room
[18:51:42] David Waltermire_web_652 leaves the room
[18:51:46] David Waltermire_web_407 joins the room
[18:51:48] David Waltermire_web_407 leaves the room
[18:51:52] David Waltermire_web_499 joins the room
[18:51:56] David Waltermire_web_499 leaves the room
[18:52:00] David Waltermire_web_424 joins the room
[18:52:02] David Waltermire_web_424 leaves the room
[18:52:06] David Waltermire_web_496 joins the room
[18:52:12] David Waltermire_web_496 leaves the room
[18:52:16] David Waltermire_web_634 joins the room
[18:52:23] David Waltermire_web_634 leaves the room
[18:52:27] David Waltermire_web_671 joins the room
[18:52:46] David Waltermire_web_671 leaves the room
[18:52:50] David Waltermire_web_934 joins the room
[18:52:55] David Waltermire_web_934 leaves the room
[18:52:59] David Waltermire_web_781 joins the room
[18:53:03] David Waltermire_web_781 leaves the room
[18:53:07] David Waltermire_web_503 joins the room
[18:54:15] David Waltermire_web_503 leaves the room
[18:54:26] Tsukasa OI_web_380 joins the room
[18:54:34] Roman Danyliw_web_634 joins the room
[18:54:51] Marie-Hélène Bouchard_web_326 joins the room
[18:55:23] Greg Schumacher_web_941 joins the room
[18:55:27] Tero Kivinen_web_438 joins the room
[18:55:29] <Tsukasa OI_web_380> Hi!
[18:55:40] Michael StJohns_web_497 joins the room
[18:55:44] Henk Birkholz_web_914 joins the room
[18:55:56] Michael Richardson_web_980 joins the room
[18:56:07] <Henk Birkholz_web_914> Hello everybody!
[18:56:17] David Brown_web_190 joins the room
[18:56:51] Marco Tiloca_web_127 joins the room
[18:56:59] Takahiko Nagata_web_771 joins the room
[18:57:21] Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay_web_973 joins the room
[18:57:35] <Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay_web_973> hello
[18:57:38] Christian Amsüss_web_466 joins the room
[18:57:39] tim costello_web_771 joins the room
[18:57:45] Yutaka Oiwa_web_956 joins the room
[18:57:54] Dave Robin_web_808 joins the room
[18:58:16] Rich Salz_web_863 joins the room
[18:58:43] Kuniyasu Suzaki_web_139 joins the room
[18:58:43] <Henk Birkholz_web_914> You seem to be quite tornado resilient, Jess
[18:58:57] <Henk Birkholz_web_914> Happy to see that!
[18:59:13] Ken Takayama_web_907 joins the room
[18:59:33] <Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay_web_973> lol, yeah, we were perfectly fine. The tornado didn't even touch down.
[18:59:40] Brendan Moran_web_908 joins the room
[18:59:51] <Christian Amsüss_web_466> i can participate in note taking
[19:00:07] <Christian Amsüss_web_466> (but my network connection is still a bit flaky, so it'd be good to be in a pair when i flake out)
[19:00:09] Rikard Höglund_web_799 joins the room
[19:00:28] Clint McKay_web_796 joins the room
[19:00:36] Trent Adams_web_518 joins the room
[19:00:45] Dominique Barthel_web_605 joins the room
[19:01:02] Dan Harkins_web_388 joins the room
[19:01:14] Steffen Fries_web_945 joins the room
[19:01:32] Ira McDonald_web_938 joins the room
[19:01:46] Peter Koch_web_301 joins the room
[19:01:59] Hanning Zhao_web_961 joins the room
[19:02:27] Ching-Heng Ku_web_821 joins the room
[19:02:48] Christian Amsüss_web_466 leaves the room
[19:03:14] Juan-Carlos Zúñiga_web_749 joins the room
[19:03:39] Kohei Isobe_web_185 joins the room
[19:03:45] Gabriel Montenegro_web_269 joins the room
[19:03:57] Jiri Novotny_web_722 joins the room
[19:04:00] Akira Tsukamoto_web_239 joins the room
[19:04:20] Alexey Melnikov_web_648 joins the room
[19:04:21] Christian Amsüss_web_291 joins the room
[19:04:26] Russ Housley_web_288 joins the room
[19:04:37] Tadahiko Ito_web_187 joins the room
[19:05:40] Geng-Da Tsai_web_289 joins the room
[19:05:46] <Roman Danyliw_web_634> I see the slides now
[19:06:00] Mike Boyle_web_471 joins the room
[19:07:38] Erik Nordmark_web_389 joins the room
[19:07:42] Michael Jenkins_web_199 joins the room
[19:08:08] Antti Kolehmainen_web_910 joins the room
[19:08:16] <Ira McDonald_web_938> slides are NOT advancing
[19:08:35] David Waltermire_web_792 joins the room
[19:08:40] <Kohei Isobe_web_185> freezed slide?
[19:08:40] Hanning Zhao_web_961 leaves the room
[19:08:57] Hanning Zhao_web_897 joins the room
[19:09:06] <Alexey Melnikov_web_648> +1
[19:09:19] <David Waltermire_web_792> Sorry. My internet connection  has been very unstable.
[19:09:35] <Tero Kivinen_web_438> He is advancing in the slideshow, but that is not shared window...
[19:09:46] <Tero Kivinen_web_438> so the actual window which is shared do not get updated.
[19:09:52] <Alessandro Toppi_web_653> He's probably sharing the editor window
[19:09:57] <Henk Birkholz_web_914> And skipping audio codes quality
[19:10:01] Hanning Zhao_web_897 leaves the room
[19:10:03] <mcr> @Tero, exactly.  This is like screen sharing 101.
[19:10:05] Hanning Zhao_web_129 joins the room
[19:10:34] Michael StJohns_web_497 leaves the room
[19:10:49] Christian Amsüss_web_291 leaves the room
[19:10:53] Christian Amsüss_web_761 joins the room
[19:11:07] <Tero Kivinen_web_438> I really like the PDF sharing feature built in to the meetecho, as it does not has those issues...
[19:11:48] Oliver Borchert_web_539 joins the room
[19:12:02] <mcr> also doesn't waste 40% of the screen.
[19:16:18] David Waltermire_web_792 leaves the room
[19:16:31] David Waltermire_web_390 joins the room
[19:16:55] Takao Kondo_web_393 joins the room
[19:17:33] David Waltermire_web_390 leaves the room
[19:17:37] David Waltermire_web_571 joins the room
[19:22:52] Henk Birkholz_web_914 leaves the room
[19:22:56] Henk Birkholz_web_925 joins the room
[19:24:49] Marco Tiloca_web_127 leaves the room
[19:24:55] Marco Tiloca_web_569 joins the room
[19:25:39] <Ira McDonald_web_938> extension, please
[19:25:47] <Alexey Melnikov_web_648> Extension seems sensible
[19:26:06] <David Waltermire_web_571> +1
[19:26:10] <Dave Thaler_web_915> chat feedback noted
[19:27:43] Geng-Da Tsai_web_289 leaves the room
[19:28:48] Tsukasa OI_web_380 leaves the room
[19:29:15] Tsukasa OI_web_531 joins the room
[19:29:17] <mcr> I don't really understand the question/issue.  I guess the point is that since the payload is part of the manifest, that why/how could it not be integral, while the manifest was okay, so do we ever really need to verify it.
[19:29:41] <Hannes Tschofenig_web_650> You should ask that at the mike
[19:29:59] Tsukasa OI_web_531 leaves the room
[19:30:06] Tsukasa OI_web_333 joins the room
[19:30:40] <mcr> On this topic (do they have github issue numbers?) since we are using self-describing CBOR, then we can mix string and integer keys.
[19:31:16] <mcr> and the error handling on when the string->integer fails, or someone decides to use hex numbers, etc..
[19:31:21] <Christian Amsüss_web_761> +1 on using strings rather than ints
[19:31:38] <Henk Birkholz_web_925> At some point fragments might be interested
[19:31:51] <Henk Birkholz_web_925> So for this round that seems fine
[19:32:00] <Henk Birkholz_web_925> Ints
[19:35:04] <mcr> @Russ, can you remind us about the size of the HSS-LMS signature size?
[19:35:35] <mcr> We have to be testing HSS-LMS today, before we need it.
[19:35:44] <David Waltermire_web_571> Should we list MTI in the base spec vs a crypto spec?
[19:36:32] <mcr> there is the code size issue for the additional signature form, and if we can have only one, then the concern is for the signature size.
[19:38:01] <Dave Thaler_web_915> @DavidW did you want to ask that at the mic?
[19:38:45] Hanning Zhao_web_129 leaves the room
[19:38:52] <David Waltermire_web_571> Yes. Should we be concerned about lo ger term agility?
[19:39:12] <David Waltermire_web_571> Longer-term that is
[19:41:18] <Dave Thaler_web_915> can you get in queue then? :)
[19:42:51] <Rich Salz_web_863> yeah i left the queue
[19:43:02] Thomas Fossati_web_515 joins the room
[19:43:06] <David Waltermire_web_571> Nope
[19:43:29] <Roman Danyliw_web_634> Baking in crypto agility makes sense
[19:44:20] <mcr> I really think we should make HSS-LMS be the MTI for any device with an expected lifetime of more than about 2 years.  (Where smartphones fit into "2 years" is a marketing problem)
[19:44:21] <Ira McDonald_web_938> crypto agility w/out h/w acceleration is an impractical dream
[19:44:33] <Alexey Melnikov_web_648> So how do you go about finding out the answer about whether people implement?
[19:46:59] Marco Schrieck_web_959 joins the room
[19:47:03] Kohei Isobe_web_185 leaves the room
[19:47:07] Kohei Isobe_web_225 joins the room
[19:47:37] <Roman Danyliw_web_634> @Brendan: Totally agree.  We need implementers to help us understand the engineering envelope
[19:47:54] Akira Tsukamoto_web_239 leaves the room
[19:48:08] Akira Tsukamoto_web_592 joins the room
[19:48:43] Akira Tsukamoto_web_592 leaves the room
[19:48:54] <Roman Danyliw_web_634> @mcr: the NIST CCOE might entertain such an evaluation project
[19:49:27] Akira Tsukamoto_web_248 joins the room
[19:50:16] <mcr> no. we'll never be able to change.  The assymetric algorithms will wind up as SHOULDs anyway.
[19:50:49] <Christian Amsüss_web_761> note takers didn't get MUST and SHOULD part
[19:51:29] Henk Birkholz_web_925 leaves the room
[19:51:52] Akira Tsukamoto_web_248 leaves the room
[19:52:04] <Alexey Melnikov_web_648> mcr has a point
[19:52:05] Henk Birkholz_web_265 joins the room
[19:52:34] <David Waltermire_web_571> We should work this.out.on the list.
[19:52:36] <Ira McDonald_web_938> how do we migrate? retire one and shift to the other?
[19:52:41] <Alexey Melnikov_web_648> Try Hackathon with HSS-LMS and see how much push back you get?
[19:52:48] <Hannes Tschofenig_web_650> +1
[19:52:51] Akira Tsukamoto_web_861 joins the room
[19:53:17] <David Waltermire_web_571> I like having a separate crypto draft to address this.
[19:53:41] <mcr> @Ira, if we have HSS-LMS as MUST, then we likely never need to shift. That's where the win is.   If we start it anywhere else, then the shift is very hard, and if we ever need to do it, it's too late.  This is very much like a Climate Change or Y2K kind of decision.  
[19:54:03] <Tadahiko Ito_web_187> I am interested in operation of stateful hash algorithim.
[19:54:43] <Hannes Tschofenig_web_650> I don't know because I don't have the performance data yet
[19:55:20] <Ira McDonald_web_938> 13 out of 53 is 20 percent
[19:55:31] <Alexey Melnikov_web_648> You still need to check this on the mailing list
[19:55:36] <mcr> Based upon what claim by Brendan and Russ, HSS may be faster for verify-and-then-boot systems.
[19:55:45] <Roman Danyliw_web_634> ^^ What Alexey said
[19:56:12] <David Waltermire_web_571> I would prefer to ask Dave's question about additional arguments on the liat.
[19:56:38] SeongHan Shin_web_187 joins the room
[19:56:48] <Dave Thaler_web_915> yes, just want to get proposed consensus here and confirm on the list
[19:56:49] <David Waltermire_web_571> list. There are none, we go with the consensus here.
[19:57:10] Henk Birkholz_web_265 leaves the room
[19:57:13] <David Waltermire_web_571> Ok
[19:57:16] <mcr> yes, of course: we need to discuss it on the list. I doubt we'll get very many different/vocal answers.  To answer this, we need to do more running code.
[19:58:14] <Ira McDonald_web_938> LMS got a bunch of fresh implementors due to NIST PQC competition - and some very good analysis work
[19:58:26] <mcr> LOL.
[19:58:36] <Dave Thaler_web_915> it would be ideal for IETF 113...
[19:59:00] David Waltermire_web_571 leaves the room
[19:59:01] Gabriel Montenegro_web_269 leaves the room
[19:59:09] David Waltermire_web_179 joins the room
[19:59:22] Marco Schrieck_web_959 leaves the room
[19:59:30] <mcr> Brendan, you'll never a big advance on the "Secrets of SUIT" if you make the spec understandable!! ;-)
[19:59:44] Gabriel Montenegro_web_230 joins the room
[20:00:09] <Hannes Tschofenig_web_650> @Brendan: That's not how we do it. We make specs difficult to read so that we can sell consulting gigs and book deals
[20:00:57] Bron Gondwana_web_594 joins the room
[20:01:07] <Hannes Tschofenig_web_650> (That was supposed to be understood as a joke btw...)
[20:01:08] <Christian Amsüss_web_761> HT you may want to go to IEC ;-)
[20:01:11] <mcr> I suggest that we start by moving non-core commands to a later section (or a normative appendix), and then we could consider if that worked.
[20:01:48] <Hannes Tschofenig_web_650> I think that this re-structuring is a good idea
[20:01:52] <mcr> @Roman, shorter documents also get through the IESG faster?
[20:01:54] <Ira McDonald_web_938> MCR - I think instead we should prune the core draft as Brendan has suggested
[20:02:15] Trent Adams_web_518 leaves the room
[20:02:27] <mcr> @Ira, I'm really just suggesting a way to get to that point.
[20:03:13] <Michael Jenkins_web_199> megacluster!
[20:03:15] <mcr> Could we declare this spec as an Implementation Draft?
[20:03:26] Akira Tsukamoto_web_861 leaves the room
[20:03:36] <mcr> @Michael, in theory, it won't have to get processed as a cluster, because the references will be only unidirectional.
[20:03:52] Gabriel Montenegro_web_230 leaves the room
[20:03:56] Gabriel Montenegro_web_152 joins the room
[20:03:57] <Michael Jenkins_web_199> @mcr - thanks for the clarification. That helps.
[20:04:11] Akira Tsukamoto_web_166 joins the room
[20:04:15] Bron Gondwana_web_594 leaves the room
[20:04:21] Gabriel Montenegro_web_152 leaves the room
[20:04:25] Gabriel Montenegro_web_973 joins the room
[20:05:32] <Ira McDonald_web_938> In the core spec, briefly enumerate/describe *all* of the known use cases that are addressed in companion specs
[20:05:42] <Roman Danyliw_web_634> @mcr, shorter = faster, maybe.  It depends.  If the topic is spread across multiple docs it's sometimes easier for it all to be in one place.  There is a spin-up cost for each doc
[20:05:48] <mcr> @Ira: +1. mostly what I am going to say.
[20:07:49] Erik Nordmark_web_389 leaves the room
[20:07:55] Erik Nordmark_web_511 joins the room
[20:10:29] <Dave Thaler_web_915> yeah shorter time for the base spec, longer time for the pieces split off since the spin up cost and intro text
[20:12:10] <Alexey Melnikov_web_648> +1 mcr
[20:15:03] <David Waltermire_web_179> We should address the specifi  docs in the charter update.
[20:15:46] Juan-Carlos Zúñiga_web_749 leaves the room
[20:15:51] <mcr> @David, about that NCCoE suggestion about a NIST workshop on managing HSS-LSM "PKI"...
[20:17:39] <Russ Housley_web_288> @DaveW: Yes, that will be a new portion in the charter
[20:18:15] <David Waltermire_web_179> @mcr I can make that suggestion to the responsible people at NIST.
[20:18:59] <Russ Housley_web_288> @MCR: HSS/LMS and XMSS are the two hash-based signature algorithms that have been approved by NIST.  Both are stateful.
[20:20:53] Marco Tiloca_web_569 leaves the room
[20:20:59] Marco Tiloca_web_289 joins the room
[20:21:25] Steve Olshansky_web_866 joins the room
[20:24:56] Marco Tiloca_web_289 leaves the room
[20:25:01] Marco Tiloca_web_385 joins the room
[20:25:52] <Ira McDonald_web_938> best-in-class automotive s/w update tools do *unique* signatures on firmware for each target vehicle, not just for one source OEM repository
[20:27:48] Taiji Kimura_web_513 joins the room
[20:28:04] <mcr> @Ira, so not just encrypted to each vehicle separately, but signed with a per-vehicle signing key?   does that mean that each vehicle gets their own custom blob?
[20:29:12] Christian Amsüss_web_761 leaves the room
[20:31:59] <Tadahiko Ito_web_187> if it were unique, it seems we might end up many signatures for manifest. it seems we need care on state management of HSS/LMS.
[20:32:53] Trent Adams_web_166 joins the room
[20:33:17] Behcet Sarikaya_web_352 joins the room
[20:33:20] Michael Rosa_web_602 joins the room
[20:33:25] Christian Amsüss_web_881 joins the room
[20:33:54] <Ira McDonald_web_938> The signature key can be a hash of a back-office key and a vehicle's ECU-specific identity key.  Other mixing techniques are used.  OEMs do this partly to defeat hackers illegitimately turning on value-add features without paying for them.
[20:33:55] <Christian Amsüss_web_881> hannes, my connection is just super flaky, can you take over minutes?
[20:34:15] Henk Birkholz_web_195 joins the room
[20:34:19] Henk Birkholz_web_195 leaves the room
[20:34:25] <Christian Amsüss_web_881> (just came online after having missed a few minutes, not sure if holding, lots of ESD in the air here right now)
[20:36:58] <Hannes Tschofenig_web_650> Can someone help me with the minutes?
[20:38:58] Marco Tiloca_web_385 leaves the room
[20:39:03] Marco Tiloca_web_989 joins the room
[20:39:19] <mcr> logged in, I'll help as I can.
[20:39:23] <Hannes Tschofenig_web_650> Thanks
[20:39:32] <mcr> I thikn that this attack needs a diagram :-)
[20:41:22] BEHCET SARIKAYA joins the room
[20:41:23] <Dave Thaler_web_915> :)
[20:42:22] Cigdem Sengul_web_220 joins the room
[20:42:36] <mcr> Do those that care about encryption of firmware, have any concerns that a PQ event would allow all historical firmware contents to be revealed?
[20:45:37] Christian Amsüss_web_881 leaves the room
[20:46:09] <Hannes Tschofenig_web_650> Never heard about that concern. We should ask around
[20:48:33] Alex Ospina_web_401 joins the room
[20:50:17] <mcr> @Hannes, I have to pay attention to APN open mic now.
[20:50:49] <Hannes Tschofenig_web_650> Ack. No problem
[20:51:28] Behcet Sarikaya_web_352 leaves the room
[20:51:35] BEHCET SARIKAYA leaves the room
[20:51:43] Trent Adams_web_166 leaves the room
[20:53:03] <Roman Danyliw_web_634> @brendan: sounds like at least a format
[20:53:16] <Alexey Melnikov_web_648> Format sounds fine.
[20:53:40] <Alexey Melnikov_web_648> There doesn't seem to be an interaction (i.e. no protocol)
[20:53:56] <Brendan Moran_web_908> Rollercoaster!
[20:54:02] tim costello_web_771 leaves the room
[20:54:26] Alessandro Toppi_web_653 leaves the room
[20:54:32] Akira Tsukamoto_web_166 leaves the room
[20:54:32] Alessandro Toppi_web_952 joins the room
[20:54:38] Akira Tsukamoto_web_596 joins the room
[20:55:15] Rob Hamilton_web_466 joins the room
[20:55:49] Cigdem Sengul_web_220 leaves the room
[20:56:35] Rob Hamilton_web_466 leaves the room
[20:56:43] <Alexey Melnikov_web_648> Is Roman the responsible AD for both SUIT and RATS ;-)?
[20:56:53] <Roman Danyliw_web_634> I am, that's why I'm not so concerned
[20:56:58] <Hannes Tschofenig_web_650> ;-)
[20:57:38] Cigdem Sengul_web_994 joins the room
[20:58:20] <Alexey Melnikov_web_648> ADs have some leeway in interpreting charters.
[20:59:57] <Roman Danyliw_web_634> +1 on vaguer extensions
[21:01:18] Jiri Novotny_web_722 leaves the room
[21:01:18] Ira McDonald_web_938 leaves the room
[21:01:39] Gabriel Montenegro_web_973 leaves the room
[21:01:39] Rich Salz_web_863 leaves the room
[21:01:39] Dave Robin_web_808 leaves the room
[21:01:48] Steve Olshansky_web_866 leaves the room
[21:01:52] <Roman Danyliw_web_634> Thanks DaveT, Russ and DavidW for leading the discussion
[21:01:53] Greg Schumacher_web_941 leaves the room
[21:01:54] Peter Koch_web_301 leaves the room
[21:01:57] Dan Harkins_web_388 leaves the room
[21:01:59] Michael Rosa_web_602 leaves the room
[21:01:59] Takao Kondo_web_393 leaves the room
[21:01:59] Antti Kolehmainen_web_910 leaves the room
[21:02:00] Dominique Barthel_web_605 leaves the room
[21:02:01] Roman Danyliw_web_634 leaves the room
[21:02:01] Alexey Melnikov_web_648 leaves the room
[21:02:02] Russ Housley_web_288 leaves the room
[21:02:02] SeongHan Shin_web_187 leaves the room
[21:02:02] Mike Boyle_web_471 leaves the room
[21:02:03] Clint McKay_web_796 leaves the room
[21:02:04] Alex Ospina_web_401 leaves the room
[21:02:05] Marie-Hélène Bouchard_web_326 leaves the room
[21:02:05] Michael Richardson_web_980 leaves the room
[21:02:07] Marco Tiloca_web_989 leaves the room
[21:02:07] Hannes Tschofenig_web_650 leaves the room
[21:02:07] Cigdem Sengul_web_994 leaves the room
[21:02:07] Ken Takayama_web_907 leaves the room
[21:02:08] Kuniyasu Suzaki_web_139 leaves the room
[21:02:08] David Waltermire_web_179 leaves the room
[21:02:09] Taiji Kimura_web_513 leaves the room
[21:02:09] Michael Jenkins_web_199 leaves the room
[21:02:09] Takahiko Nagata_web_771 leaves the room
[21:02:09] Tsukasa OI_web_333 leaves the room
[21:02:15] Tero Kivinen_web_438 leaves the room
[21:02:18] Erik Nordmark_web_511 leaves the room
[21:02:18] Yutaka Oiwa_web_956 leaves the room
[21:02:19] Tadahiko Ito_web_187 leaves the room
[21:02:19] David Brown_web_190 leaves the room
[21:02:23] Dave Thaler_web_915 leaves the room
[21:02:23] Masashi Kikuchi_web_634 leaves the room
[21:02:23] Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay_web_973 leaves the room
[21:02:23] Brendan Moran_web_908 leaves the room
[21:02:23] Rikard Höglund_web_799 leaves the room
[21:02:23] Steffen Fries_web_945 leaves the room
[21:02:23] Ching-Heng Ku_web_821 leaves the room
[21:02:23] Oliver Borchert_web_539 leaves the room
[21:02:23] Thomas Fossati_web_515 leaves the room
[21:02:23] Kohei Isobe_web_225 leaves the room
[21:02:23] Alessandro Toppi_web_952 leaves the room
[21:02:23] Akira Tsukamoto_web_596 leaves the room
[21:03:01] Meetecho leaves the room
[21:03:37] meetecho-alexamirante leaves the room
[21:21:41] BEHCET SARIKAYA joins the room
[21:27:14] mcr leaves the room
[22:16:00] BEHCET SARIKAYA leaves the room