sidr - Wednesday, 1 August 2012

sidr

sidr@jabber.ietf.org

Wednesday, 1 August 2012< ^ >

christopher.morrow has set the subject to: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr/trac/wiki/InterimMeeting20120629

Room Configuration

GMT+0
[15:27:28] Arturo Servin Ü joins the room
[15:40:51] padma.krishnaswamy joins the room
[15:49:43] melkins joins the room
[15:49:57] Arturo Servin Ü leaves the room
[15:52:32] Arturo Servin Ü joins the room
[15:54:58] <padma.krishnaswamy> anyone on here- please- how do we get the audio stream?
[15:57:27] <Arturo Servin Ü> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr/agenda
[15:57:56] <Arturo Servin Ü> there is a link there. Also, http://ietf84streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf842.m3u
[15:58:05] <padma.krishnaswamy> thanks
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[16:01:50] <melkins> is it just me, or is the audio feed just coming out of the right channel only?
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[16:03:51] mlepinski joins the room
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[16:05:09] <weiler> can you hear sandy at all?
[16:05:22] <weiler> melkins: it's not just you. R channel only.
[16:05:36] <weiler> is it annoying enough that you want us to try to change it?
[16:05:39] <melkins> yes, sandy is clearly understandable
[16:05:47] <Anuja Sonalker> I can hear sandy very well too
[16:06:04] <melkins> no, just switched to external speakers instead of headphones
[16:06:12] <John Scudder> Taking minutes here: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr/minutes
[16:06:31] Wes George joins the room
[16:06:40] <Wes George> I'll be scribin
[16:06:43] <Wes George> anyone remote?
[16:06:44] <padma.krishnaswamy> Do remoters scroll along their downloaded slides? No visual channel to accompany the audio?
[16:06:46] Stewart Bryant joins the room
[16:06:51] mguod joins the room
[16:07:00] Rob Austein joins the room
[16:07:01] <weiler> padma: correct.
[16:07:01] <Wes George> yes, I'll send links to each preso as w estart and identify slide numbers
[16:07:12] <Wes George> if you want something said at the mic, please preface it with mic:
[16:07:13] Melinda joins the room
[16:07:13] <melkins> Wes George: yes there are a couple remotes here, thanks.
[16:07:18] <padma.krishnaswamy> thanks.
[16:07:20] <Anuja Sonalker> +1
[16:08:14] Andrew Chi joins the room
[16:08:31] <Wes George> we're currently reviewingg WG draft status, in http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/agenda/agenda-84-sidr
[16:08:44] <Wes George> no page number so I'm not sure which slide
[16:09:06] <Wes George> Sandy Murphy speaking
[16:09:07] <melkins> note: the pdf of the chair slides seems to be corrupt http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/84/slides/slides-84-sidr-8.pdf
[16:09:12] bje leaves the room
[16:10:51] <Wes George> I have not seen any problem with the slides, just pulled them up (but I'm using MSoffice)
[16:11:04] <weiler> melkins: reported audio channel thing.
[16:11:43] <Wes George> we are on slide 8
[16:11:48] jayb@jabber.org is now known as Jay Borkenhagen
[16:11:56] <melkins> neither chrome nor evince can open that slide deck for me. oh well.
[16:12:23] <Wes George> it gave me the PPT when I clicked the link
[16:12:27] <Wes George> have you tried that?
[16:12:31] <weiler> melkins: evince works fine for me.
[16:12:40] <Wes George> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-sidr-8.ppt
[16:12:55] <Wes George> slide 9
[16:13:04] <Wes George> slide 100
[16:13:07] <Wes George> er 10
[16:13:13] <Wes George> slide 11
[16:13:17] <Wes George> 12
[16:13:46] <Wes George> 13
[16:15:11] <Wes George> discussion in the room - pdf is missing slides, switching to ppt
[16:15:12] Jeffrey Haas joins the room
[16:15:19] <Wes George> randy bush at mic
[16:15:28] <Wes George> morrow: it's expired
[16:15:49] <Wes George> ok, now on slide 14 of the ppt
[16:16:05] <Wes George> draft dependencies big scary diagram
[16:16:11] <Wes George> slide 15
[16:16:14] <Wes George> more scary diagram
[16:16:57] Rob Austein leaves the room
[16:17:08] Rob Austein joins the room
[16:17:18] <Wes George> steve kent now presenting http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-sidr-3.pdf
[16:17:21] <Rob Austein> Not that scary. DNS or MPLS much scarier
[16:17:26] <Wes George> slide 2
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[16:18:01] Benno Overeinder joins the room
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[16:18:15] <Wes George> slide 3
[16:18:42] <weiler> about 10 sec lag on the audio stream. chairs need to keep that in mind when closing queues.
[16:19:09] <alexey.melnikov> As a side note: if people believe that document states in datatracker are not accurate/correct, please let WG chairs know
[16:20:26] <Wes George> slide 6
[16:21:24] <Wes George> slide 7
[16:21:25] <Wes George> questions?/
[16:22:46] <Wes George> steve k now presenting http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-sidr-2.pdf
[16:22:49] <Wes George> slide 2
[16:24:29] <Wes George> slide 3
[16:24:57] iainwp leaves the room
[16:25:53] <Wes George> slide 4
[16:26:13] iainwp joins the room
[16:26:30] <Wes George> slides 5, 6, 7 quickly
[16:26:31] <Wes George> slide 8
[16:27:26] ggm joins the room
[16:27:55] Andrew Newton joins the room
[16:28:36] <Wes George> slide 9
[16:29:16] <Wes George> slide 10
[16:29:20] <Wes George> slide 11
[16:30:03] <Wes George> slide 12
[16:30:05] <Wes George> slide 13
[16:31:34] <Wes George> slide 14
[16:31:46] <Wes George> questions?
[16:32:12] <Wes George> rob austein: regarding standardizing syntax - good approach, take it as two steps
[16:32:22] <Wes George> when you try to standardize something based on one existing implementation you get it wrong
[16:32:37] <Wes George> more useful to make syntax public make it a draft recommendation - try it, let us know what's wrong
[16:33:22] <Wes George> Matt Lepinski now presenting http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-sidr-5.ppt
[16:33:32] <Wes George> audio ok?
[16:33:40] <Wes George> slide 2
[16:33:44] <Wes George> overview
[16:33:50] <Jay Borkenhagen> yes - audio is still very good
[16:34:38] <Wes George> slide 3
[16:35:02] <Wes George> slide 4
[16:35:08] <Wes George> "couple of notes..."
[16:36:58] <Wes George> next slide "confederations"
[16:39:17] <Wes George> next slide "open issue - duplicate detection"
[16:40:11] Chris Spears joins the room
[16:40:49] <Wes George> randy bush at mic: a rekeying is going to change the ski
[16:40:58] <Wes George> you will recognize something that's not really a dupe
[16:41:05] <Wes George> when you say sig bits, what do you really mean
[16:41:26] <Wes George> all the implementer has to do is to look at all of the gloop and the ski, if those are the same, it's a dupe
[16:41:33] <Wes George> sorry %s/and/in
[16:41:44] <Wes George> clearly identifiable, nothing to see here
[16:41:50] <Wes George> keyur patel at mic
[16:42:01] <Wes George> please reflect this in text in document
[16:42:27] <Wes George> steve kent: perhaps we should consider explicitly including hash on which sig was calculated
[16:42:30] <Wes George> would make it faster
[16:42:41] <Wes George> steve bellovin - can't trust hash
[16:43:06] <Wes George> sorry, I can't type fast enough to capture
[16:43:10] <Wes George> it's kent and bellovin
[16:43:34] <Wes George> rob austein
[16:43:55] <Wes George> router guys know how to recognize duplicates, just need explanation on those signatures
[16:44:25] <Wes George> kent: and it couldn't be done any better because they know how to do it?
[16:44:37] <Wes George> sam weiler - is there an attack?/
[16:44:51] <Wes George> if you revoke and change ski, could an attacker replay old ski
[16:46:37] <Wes George> sriram: you have a prev update, and anew update which is a duplicate
[16:46:48] <Wes George> in terms of verification status, 4 combos invalid/valid
[16:47:23] <Wes George> if it's invalid/invalid, no propagate, if it's valid/valid, don't propagate, but if it changes (valid/invald or vice versa) then we need to propagate
[16:47:24] <padma.krishnaswamy> mic: is ML suggesting RPKI state sync with RIB in- what woud trigger a sig check trawl thru RIB in?
[16:47:32] <Wes George> ack
[16:48:24] <Wes George> randy: RPKI update
[16:48:42] <padma.krishnaswamy> :)
[16:48:49] <Wes George> jeff haas
[16:49:24] <padma.krishnaswamy> mic: how would that rpki update be noticed by router?
[16:49:35] <Wes George> ack
[16:51:00] <Wes George> randy: how does the router notice a bgp update?/
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[16:51:16] <Wes George> external tcp stream sends it data
[16:51:29] <Wes George> if it's amatter of how it matches it up to data in rib-in, look at pfx-validate
[16:51:34] <Wes George> is there something more to the question?
[16:51:39] <padma.krishnaswamy> yes but will
[16:51:43] <padma.krishnaswamy> take on list
[16:51:46] <Wes George> sandy murphy
[16:52:52] <padma.krishnaswamy> yes
[16:53:31] <Wes George> doug m
[16:53:37] <padma.krishnaswamy> this fels like a ouija board.
[16:53:57] <Wes George> or magic 8 ball - ask again later, answer unclear ;-)
[16:54:28] <padma.krishnaswamy> know more about ouija than the last, little enough about both but feel disembodied and unable to spell
[16:54:32] <Rob Austein> Answer totally clear, just some people don't understand the answer :)
[16:54:44] <Wes George> slide "bottom line"
[16:55:00] <Wes George> lol, now I get the reference.
[16:56:38] <Wes George> sandy murphy speaking
[16:56:39] <Wes George> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-sidr-7.ppt
[16:56:43] <Wes George> interim summary
[16:57:11] <Wes George> Agenda slide
[16:57:37] <Wes George> slide "measurements and data"
[16:58:39] <Wes George> slide "measurements and data....recounted"
[16:59:58] <Wes George> slide "measurements and data.... randy bush"
[17:02:10] <Wes George> slide
[17:02:42] David Cooper leaves the room
[17:02:59] <Wes George> slide "measurements and data ... consensus"
[17:03:42] Anuja Sonalker_ joins the room
[17:04:56] Anuja Sonalker leaves the room
[17:05:20] <Wes George> eric osterweil - good that we're modeling larger sets
[17:05:38] <Wes George> could we take this microbenchmark to simulate today's internet - use CIDR report?
[17:06:54] <Wes George> sandy:
[17:07:26] <Wes George> randy - being characteristically terse
[17:09:59] <Wes George> eric o
[17:11:40] <Wes George> tim b
[17:12:37] mikeb joins the room
[17:13:54] <Wes George> chris morrow
[17:15:02] leaf.y.yeh joins the room
[17:15:04] <Wes George> randy bush again
[17:18:05] <Wes George> tim b - asked on list, got little response
[17:18:23] <Wes George> stress separation between current deployment, which works, but looking to future
[17:18:40] <Wes George> I'm not saying that the system is broken, more trying to find how to make things better
[17:18:43] <Wes George> rob austein
[17:18:59] <Wes George> potential for a success disaster
[17:20:36] <Wes George> danny mac
[17:20:57] Melinda leaves the room
[17:21:35] <Wes George> sandy murphy
[17:22:49] <Wes George> slide "alternative communication designs"
[17:23:35] <Rob Austein> What I said was "potential for a success disaster". Let's not be alarmist :)
[17:24:06] <Wes George> slide
[17:25:25] <Wes George> slide "alt communication designs... consensus"
[17:25:48] leaf.y.yeh leaves the room
[17:25:58] <Rob Austein> Hah, WG chairs did not include slide numbers, tsk tsk
[17:26:21] <Wes George> indeed
[17:26:30] <Wes George> slide "bgpsec protocol
[17:27:05] <Wes George> end
[17:27:09] danny joins the room
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[17:27:35] <Wes George> Roque Gagliano now presenting http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-sidr-6.pdf
[17:27:59] <Wes George> oops, carlos martinez presenting
[17:28:02] <Wes George> slide 2
[17:28:05] <Wes George> audio ok?
[17:28:23] <melkins> yes, although the volume level is slightly low
[17:28:45] <Wes George> ok let me know if it gets hard to understand
[17:29:15] <Wes George> slide 3
[17:29:44] Chris Spears joins the room
[17:29:50] <Jay Borkenhagen> audio fades in and out -- probably as speaker turns head to look at slides vs room
[17:29:54] <Wes George> ok
[17:30:12] <Rob Austein> Better?
[17:30:18] <melkins> yes
[17:30:24] <Jay Borkenhagen> much
[17:30:43] <Wes George> we're having a meta conversation about the fact that I didn't use the mic to fuss at the speaker about his mic
[17:30:45] <Wes George> :-)
[17:31:21] <melkins> I heard you liked process, so I put some process in your process.
[17:31:31] <Wes George> lol
[17:31:46] <John Scudder> :-)
[17:31:56] <Wes George> slide 4
[17:32:27] <Wes George> slid e5
[17:32:31] <Wes George> or slide 5 even
[17:33:23] <Wes George> slide 6
[17:33:34] ggm leaves the room
[17:33:36] <Wes George> questions?
[17:33:41] <Wes George> responses to questions on slides/
[17:33:43] <Wes George> ?
[17:34:19] <Wes George> rob austein: oppose
[17:34:24] <Wes George> solving problem in wrong place
[17:34:40] <Wes George> we know how to build robust DNS, one name doesn't mean one DNS server
[17:34:51] <Wes George> don't see benefit
[17:34:58] <Arturo Servin Ü> DNS have 13 roots by the way
[17:35:42] <Wes George> randy bush - +1 to Rob
[17:35:49] <Arturo Servin Ü> why we cannot have more than one repository?
[17:36:00] <Wes George> Ruediger Volk - don't let work on this stop fixing the current publication problems
[17:36:07] <Wes George> arturo - d oyo uwant that at the mic?
[17:36:14] <Arturo Servin Ü> i am in another WG
[17:36:19] <Wes George> tim b
[17:36:23] <Rob Austein> You can have multiple repositories. Multiple IP addresses for same name, TCP anycast, etc
[17:36:45] <Arturo Servin Ü> TCP anycast not sure if would work
[17:37:06] <Rob Austein> I'm not fond of TCP anycast myself, but multiple IP addresses are simple.
[17:37:08] <Wes George> terry manderson - want more discussion, not ready for WG adoption
[17:38:00] <Wes George> andrew chi - what does an rp do when presented with multipe uri
[17:39:14] Melinda joins the room
[17:39:16] <Wes George> Benno overeinder presenting http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-sidr-4.pdf
[17:39:22] Anuja Sonalker_ leaves the room
[17:39:49] <Wes George> slide 2
[17:39:57] Chris Spears leaves the room
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[17:41:10] <Wes George> slide 3
[17:42:11] sandy joins the room
[17:42:20] <Wes George> slide 4
[17:43:15] <Wes George> slide 5
[17:44:37] <Wes George> randy bush
[17:46:14] <Wes George> rob austein
[17:46:47] <Wes George> doug montgomery - practical approaches to a phased deployment?
[17:47:02] <Wes George> somewhere between full automation/full deployment and pilot
[17:47:35] <Wes George> slide 6
[17:47:45] Chris Spears joins the room
[17:47:46] <Wes George> questions in the jabber room?
[17:48:27] <Wes George> going to mic, afk for a moment
[17:51:55] <Wes George> presentation ends
[17:52:20] <John Scudder> minutes in http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr/minutes
[17:53:18] <Wes George> Randy Bush discussing grandparenting draft
[17:53:20] <Wes George> no slide
[17:53:32] <Wes George> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ymbk-rpki-grandparenting-02
[17:56:32] <Wes George> sandy murphy
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[17:58:58] <Wes George> andrei robachevski
[17:59:45] John Scudder leaves the room
[18:01:05] <Wes George> doug montgomery
[18:02:47] <Wes George> rob austein
[18:03:51] Chris Spears leaves the room
[18:04:12] <Wes George> terry manderson
[18:04:41] <Wes George> sandy murphy
[18:04:43] John Scudder joins the room
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[18:05:30] <Wes George> randy - because no obvous contractual relationship
[18:05:39] <Wes George> steve kent
[18:06:04] <Wes George> afk for a moment, going to mic
[18:06:32] <Rob Austein> wes george now at mike
[18:07:36] <Wes George> sandy speaking now about interim meetings
[18:07:38] <Wes George> no slide
[18:10:15] Anuja Sonalker leaves the room
[18:11:45] <Rob Austein> Wes has been at the mike again
[18:12:58] <Wes George> question about attending interim on sept 29?
[18:13:03] <Wes George> jabber rooms?
[18:13:09] <Jay Borkenhagen> yes, but only remotely
[18:13:12] <Wes George> they need an estimate of attendance
[18:13:27] <Jeffrey Haas> physical, rather than spiritual (or remote)
[18:14:48] <Wes George> comments about future interims - oct/nov/dec?
[18:15:12] <Wes George> stewart notes IETF is right at beginning of nov, and matt notes that RIPE is end of sept
[18:15:26] <Wes George> jeff haas - what about completely remote?
[18:16:05] <Wes George> randy bush - notes that we should have these in asia as well
[18:19:48] <Wes George> wes george, elliott lear, jeff haas at mic
[18:19:51] <Wes George> ruediger volk
[18:20:19] <Wes George> wes hardaker
[18:20:27] <Wes George> virtual whiteboards
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[18:22:40] <Wes George> rob austein, randy bush at mic
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[18:24:01] <Wes George> session ends
[18:24:05] Rob Austein leaves the room
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