IETF
sidr
sidr@jabber.ietf.org
Wednesday, 6 June 2012< ^ >
alexey.melnikov has set the subject to: SIDR WG Interim http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr/trac/wiki/InterimMeeting20120430
Room Configuration

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[17:04:52] melkins has set the subject to: SIDR WG Interim http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr/trac/wiki/InterimMeeting20120606
[17:11:13] morrowc joins the room
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[19:26:15] <morrowc> the conf bridge is live.
[19:26:18] <morrowc> if that helps
[19:50:30] mike joins the room
[19:55:19] <morrowc> chello
[19:55:45] jayb@jabber.org joins the room
[19:55:56] <morrowc> the conf bridge is live.
[19:57:12] <jayb@jabber.org> that's the conf bridge @+1-408-600-3600 pin: 644 985 813 ?
[19:57:18] weiler joins the room
[19:58:34] Sean Turner joins the room
[19:58:50] <morrowc> err, I think not the webex one.
[19:59:08] <morrowc> sam, did we decide to use the webex or alternate?
[19:59:34] <morrowc> I only heard testing of alternate.. but can bridge the 2 together if necessary.
[20:00:02] <Sean Turner> dialing in now
[20:04:15] <morrowc> ok, both bridges are joined together.
[20:04:23] <morrowc> in holy matrimony... or something
[20:04:24] <Sean Turner> I'm in ;)
[20:04:33] <Sean Turner> audio is working
[20:04:43] <morrowc> sweet
[20:09:06] <Sean Turner> too hard from afar ;)
[20:09:14] <Sean Turner> Sandy is clear in my ear
[20:10:45] <Sean Turner> ooh really ;)
[20:11:07] Brian Weis joins the room
[20:11:11] <Sean Turner> http://grenache.tools.ietf.org:9001/p/notes-interim-2012-sidr-3
[20:11:12] <morrowc> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr/trac/wiki/InterimMeeting20120606
[20:11:32] Wes George joins the room
[20:11:45] <weiler> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2012/06/06/sidr/proceedings.html
[20:12:00] mlepinski joins the room
[20:12:02] Rob Austein joins the room
[20:12:03] <weiler> wiki needs a link to proceedings/slides added
[20:12:24] Karen O'Donoghue joins the room
[20:12:25] MIchael Sinatra joins the room
[20:13:05] <Karen O'Donoghue> RB: need to reframe the issue (aspath)
[20:13:20] dongtingyu joins the room
[20:13:50] <Rob Austein> Etherpad is where?
[20:13:54] <Karen O'Donoghue> SM: providing history of aspath topic
[20:14:13] <weiler> http://grenache.tools.ietf.org:9001/p/notes-interim-2012-sidr-3
[20:14:50] <Rob Austein> tnx
[20:15:12] <dongtingyu> the sound sounds like the mic is far away, is that the only audio feed?
[20:15:17] <morrowc> chair slides: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2012/06/06/sidr/slides/slides-interim-2012-sidr-3-1.pdf
[20:15:27] <Sean Turner> I stuck some version of that history in the etherpad
[20:15:46] <Wes George> there's a standard polycom with 2 outboards, so it's a matter of where people are in the room
[20:15:50] <Wes George> if you can't hear the speaker, let us know
[20:16:06] <dongtingyu> I can hear, it's just that sometimes it is a little static-y
[20:16:19] <Sean Turner> everybody that's remote should make sure to mute
[20:16:23] <morrowc> reminder that folk remote should mute when not talking.
[20:16:26] <morrowc> yes
[20:16:26] <Sean Turner> unless you're alking ;)
[20:16:35] <morrowc> sriram's slides for later: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2012/06/06/sidr/slides/slides-interim-2012-sidr-3-0.pdf <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2012/06/06/sidr/slides/slides-interim-2012-sidr-3-0.pdf>
[20:18:25] <Karen O'Donoghue> RB: what are the problems we have today with knowing what path has been followed? Have we made decisions that make it… confederation, aliasing, etc. What does this say about what we have to have on aspath or are the signatures sufficient.
[20:18:31] asonalker joins the room
[20:18:42] <weiler> RB=Randy Bush, SM = Sandra Murphy.
[20:19:19] <Sean Turner> Karen I put that in the etherpad
[20:19:25] <Sean Turner> http://grenache.tools.ietf.org:9001/p/notes-interim-2012-sidr-3
[20:20:23] Arturo Servin Ü joins the room
[20:20:44] <Sean Turner> are these slides somewhere?
[20:20:54] <morrowc> see link above.
[20:21:00] <morrowc> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2012/06/06/sidr/slides/slides-interim-2012-sidr-3-0.pdf <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2012/06/06/sidr/slides/slides-interim-2012-sidr-3-0.pdf>
[20:21:01] <Sean Turner> Ack just checking ;)
[20:21:23] <Sean Turner> confederation sequence ;)
[20:21:25] <morrowc> slide 7: "Confederation Sequence...'
[20:21:26] <morrowc> that
[20:21:29] <Sean Turner> got it
[20:21:40] <Sean Turner> digging FF 16 you can read the pdfs in the browser
[20:22:35] p.krishnaswamy.ietf joins the room
[20:28:20] dongtingyu leaves the room
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[20:29:09] <morrowc> one conversation pls?
[20:31:31] <morrowc> thx
[20:32:22] <weiler> how is audio quality, generally?
[20:32:28] <Sean Turner> no that bad...
[20:32:50] <morrowc> yup, not bad when 1 person is talking :)
[20:32:55] <morrowc> and generally aimed at a mic.
[20:33:02] <jayb@jabber.org> ... and near a mic
[20:37:05] <dongtingyu> I find it a bit unclear sometimes, but it might be that I am calling a US number from UK
[20:37:16] <dongtingyu> cannot hear the words clearly, but can hear sound
[20:37:38] <Sean Turner> I can make out randy pretty well (but I'm calling from US)
[20:40:54] <dongtingyu> so to get updated on this AS path issue, does a sigs-only (without AS_path) attribute solution allow an AS to not do any sig checks?
[20:41:11] p.krishnaswamy.ietf leaves the room
[20:41:36] p.krishnaswamy.ietf joins the room
[20:42:16] <dongtingyu> (or not touch crypto at all, i.e. does it say the 'AS path' in plaintext)
[20:47:52] <weiler> our jabber/etherpad scribe is having trouble keeping up 1) is there a need/desire for such scribing? 2) if so, so you want it in jabber or etherpad? and 3) if so, any other volunteers? I can take some of it....
[20:48:46] <Rob Austein> Sam: What I (on site participant) care about is coherent minutes. Remote participants may have other needs
[20:51:00] <weiler> hearing no answers, I'm assuming there is no need.
[20:51:23] <jayb@jabber.org> the audio seems good enough this time, so no play-by-play scribing is necessary imho. i'm all for having coherent minutes afterwards
[20:51:37] <weiler> sure
[20:55:57] <Sean Turner> I can hear and following a little bit ;)
[20:56:03] <jayb@jabber.org> so far so good.
[20:56:18] <dongtingyu> it works better when only one speaks at a time
[20:56:24] <mike> +1 speak at microphone, can mostly here but choppy occasionaly
[20:58:29] <Rob Austein> I think where we are is that we are going to follow the plan of stripping all the internal confed stuff at the exit of the confed, and that we will use a marker
[20:59:30] <morrowc> repeat
[20:59:33] <Sean Turner> please repeat
[20:59:44] <Sean Turner> ;)
[20:59:53] <morrowc> can not yhear
[21:00:19] <Sean Turner> now it's in the etherpad ;)
[21:01:23] <weiler> thanks sean
[21:02:08] <Sean Turner> I think I got some of it ;)
[21:02:28] <p.krishnaswamy.ietf> frequent loss of connectivity to etherpad-anyone else see this?
[21:02:42] <weiler> no problem here
[21:02:52] <Sean Turner> good for me
[21:03:03] <Karen O'Donoghue> I've dropped it several times… (etherpad)
[21:03:19] <weiler> we can instead scribe here, if that might be better.
[21:04:20] <jayb@jabber.org> question, if someone could ask in the room: suppose a bgpsec router that knows it's *not* in a confed sees the "start of confed" flag. should we specify the action to take in that case?
[21:08:40] <weiler> to all remotes: it should work for you to just unmute and talk to us. feel free to try that.
[21:12:23] <weiler> i'm seeing lots of folks (relatively) coming and going from the etherpad. and hearing two reports here of drops. any other reports?
[21:12:35] <Sean Turner> I've been in the whole time
[21:12:40] <MIchael Sinatra> yes, I am dropping repeatedly.
[21:12:46] <jayb@jabber.org> i disconnected just once
[21:12:51] <mike> dropped pretty regularly
[21:12:53] <weiler> michael: which local net are you on?
[21:13:03] <MIchael Sinatra> BCNETv6Demo
[21:13:04] <weiler> bcnet or sfu?
[21:13:11] <weiler> hummmm. i'm on bcnet also.....
[21:13:34] <Karen O'Donoghue> I'm on SFUNET and I've dropped
[21:13:48] <MIchael Sinatra> I don't seem to be having jabber connectivity issues or shell session disruptions.
[21:13:53] <weiler> browser? firefox is working for me.
[21:14:09] <MIchael Sinatra> firefox 13.0
[21:14:27] <MIchael Sinatra> mac os 10.6.8 FWIW
[21:14:45] <michael> I'm on USC/ISI's net, and I do see the drops as well.
[21:14:53] <weiler> i blame ISI.
[21:15:09] <morrowc> isnt this all really isi's fault?
[21:15:09] <morrowc> :)
[21:15:12] <MIchael Sinatra> I run noscript on firefox, but it's allowing ietf.org.
[21:15:21] <MIchael Sinatra> Let me switch to safari and see what happens.
[21:15:22] <Karen O'Donoghue> sriram: slide 9
[21:16:04] <weiler> michael: likewise. FF12 w/ no script. on linux.
[21:16:20] <weiler> chrome seems to work also
[21:16:33] <MIchael Sinatra> switched to safari. we'll see if it works better.
[21:16:34] <michael> oh, nickname collision fail :)
[21:17:08] <Sean Turner> I'm running FF 16, with noscript (but I trust ietf.org ;). Am, I'm logged in to tools
[21:17:17] <Sean Turner> r/Am/And
[21:17:25] <weiler> melkins: yes.
[21:17:58] <michael> fwiw, i'm seeing the drops on chrome under linux
[21:18:40] <weiler> isn't technology grand?
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[21:34:09] <weiler> FWIW, we've had sriram's slide 9 on the screen for a while.
[21:34:32] <morrowc> 9 is also the last slide, right?
[21:34:58] <weiler> looks like it, yes.
[21:35:13] <morrowc> hurray. almost on to the next topic.
[21:35:31] <weiler> and maybe a quick break.
[21:35:41] <weiler> this room lacks sunlight
[21:35:47] <Karen O'Donoghue> well…. we've only done slides 7 and 9… there are still more… :-)
[21:35:58] <MIchael Sinatra> as opposed to the rest of vancouver :)
[21:35:59] <weiler> deathwish much?
[21:36:35] <weiler> sinatra: bummer about that venus transit, eh?
[21:36:54] <morrowc> what is the discussion of randy and his stripper?
[21:37:05] <morrowc> oh, as-stripping back to the start of the confed...nm.
[21:37:26] <weiler> it's better than the sidr meeting where there was barking.
[21:38:22] Randy Bush joins the room
[21:43:58] <Rob Austein> Time for a break?
[21:44:09] <Randy Bush> whose neck?
[21:45:30] <mlepinski> +1 on time for break
[21:45:53] <weiler> +1
[21:46:00] <Karen O'Donoghue> +1
[21:48:38] <weiler> one of us should tell sandy, since she's not watching jabber
[21:49:10] <Randy Bush> that is the job of the jabber scribe, yes?
[21:49:24] <weiler> yeah, but we don't really have one of those.
[21:49:27] <weiler> it's a shared task
[21:49:32] mike is now known as mikeb
[21:49:43] <weiler> the token has been passed to you. :-)
[21:49:57] michael is now known as melkins
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[21:51:27] <weiler> this is Mike Baer
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[21:52:17] <Randy Bush> same data in two places recipe for mess and code to check
[21:53:08] <weiler> i just lost all etherpad
[21:53:14] <Karen O'Donoghue> as did I
[21:53:28] <morrowc> yes, reconnecting... to blank :( farg.
[21:53:28] <MIchael Sinatra> just dropped, first time on Safari
[21:53:36] <weiler> ==morrowc
[21:53:45] <MIchael Sinatra> +1
[21:54:26] <morrowc> and down goes webex?
[21:54:33] <morrowc> oh local call fail.
[21:54:38] <morrowc> nm..calling back.
[21:55:43] <weiler> gong
[21:56:13] <Wes George> chris - did we just lose the notes?
[21:56:31] <Randy Bush> call back in an hour. AS loop detection has failed and we are repearepearepearepea...
[21:56:46] <morrowc> apparently the tools epad died? :(
[21:58:31] mlepinski leaves the room
[22:02:56] <dongtingyu> I still have a screen on epad, can take a screenshot if that helps
[22:03:01] <dongtingyu> can't get the text out though
[22:05:01] <Rob Austein> screenshot better than nothing
[22:06:09] <morrowc> dongtingyu: how about show-src?
[22:06:13] <morrowc> then copy/paste ? :)
[22:08:21] <dongtingyu> src doesn't show anything; it's probably a lot of ajax, so won't show in src
[22:13:45] <MIchael Sinatra> I can find a bit of the text in my Safari cache on disk, but it's a horrible mess.
[22:13:46] mlepinski joins the room
[22:14:34] <dongtingyu> i got it -- hang on
[22:16:06] <dongtingyu> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~dy243/epad.html
[22:16:10] <dongtingyu> this should be complete
[22:16:20] <Sean Turner> got totally dropped and now I'm not seeing anybody else in the jabber room
[22:16:22] <Sean Turner> love it
[22:16:24] <dongtingyu> taken from javascript
[22:20:06] <morrowc> jabber for the win
[22:20:29] <Karen O'Donoghue> rumors of reconvening...
[22:20:55] <morrowc> pasted that output back into the tools epad.
[22:21:51] <weiler> resuming
[22:21:54] <Karen O'Donoghue> thanks…
[22:22:14] <Karen O'Donoghue> next agenda item: keying and rekeying...
[22:22:31] <Sean Turner> I'm here ;)
[22:24:27] <Sean Turner> tada!
[22:24:59] <Sean Turner> yep - that's where I think we're at
[22:25:03] <Sean Turner> oh good it didn't suck
[22:25:23] <Sean Turner> yep that was on the sidr list
[22:26:05] <weiler> suggestion to all: join sidr2@jabber.ietf.org
[22:26:26] <Karen O'Donoghue> why?
[22:26:59] <weiler> because it now has the dump of stuff that was in etherpad and may be updated w/ similar text
[22:27:09] <weiler> and is presumed to be more reliable than etherpad.
[22:27:35] <morrowc> also I have a personal etherpad available, if we still want to go that route.
[22:27:50] <morrowc> I'll watch it and see if it fails, and keepcopying the current tools one there in case.
[22:28:20] <Karen O'Donoghue> well if the tools one is back up and has the correct info on it… we should stick with it… one place to take notes…
[22:28:22] <weiler> and.... sean et. al are now taking notes in sidr2
[22:28:39] <Sean Turner> I'm copying from ether to sidr2
[22:28:45] <weiler> ah
[22:31:21] <Sean Turner> okay so last call it ;)
[22:31:27] p.krishnaswamy.ietf leaves the room
[22:31:38] <Randy Bush> wasn't it in wglc already?
[22:32:30] <Sean Turner> not sure actually ;)
[22:33:54] p.krishnaswamy.ietf joins the room
[22:34:52] <Randy Bush> @st: best to send an email to list requesting wglc
[22:35:13] <Randy Bush> that way there is only a 70% chance it will be forgotten
[22:36:09] <Sean Turner> keys for everyone!
[22:36:18] <weiler> anything more folks want to discuss re: keying?
[22:38:38] <Sean Turner> +1 to the additional key then you won't fall down waiting to get the new key
[22:40:48] <weiler> Warren: if they compromise one key, there's a goodly chance they'll get #2 also. randy: then you're no worse off.
[22:41:43] <Sean Turner> all you can say is that you must keep the private secret
[22:42:20] <weiler> and "here's how to recover when you fail"
[22:43:23] <asonalker> i
[22:44:00] <asonalker> oops . ignore. prev.
[22:47:08] <p.krishnaswamy.ietf> if youre no worse off, how are you better off with that 2nd key?
[22:47:44] <Randy Bush> if you need to switch keys in emergency, you only have to revoke
[22:48:31] <weiler> i think padma's point (from the etherpad) is based on the premise that when key #1 is compromised, key #2 is very likely also compromised.
[22:48:46] <weiler> and she asks, in etherpad, for an example where that is not the case.
[22:49:28] <p.krishnaswamy.ietf> thanks. i m not sure epad is working.
[22:50:17] <Sean Turner> I like the idea of an early dinner ;)
[22:58:13] <Arturo Servin Ü> Responding Sandy: We do not know, we need more data from several collecting points to see what the major problem is
[22:58:50] <weiler> arturo: speak on the phone?
[23:00:12] <p.krishnaswamy.ietf> padma: so we have several unresolkved attack cases?
(6:54:12 PM) padma: repository resync fail, cert revoc fail, router compromise?
[23:00:46] <Arturo Servin Ü> i'll try to get a silence to get into
[23:00:52] mguod joins the room
[23:00:59] <weiler> we'll create one for you
[23:01:56] <weiler> hang on.
[23:02:20] <Arturo Servin Ü> I was saying that we do not the problem yet
[23:02:34] <Arturo Servin Ü> there is a problem for sure that we need to tackle
[23:02:40] <Randy Bush> agree
[23:02:53] <Arturo Servin Ü> yes
[23:02:56] <Randy Bush> and we need to actually cooperatively debug, not stonewall
[23:02:58] <Arturo Servin Ü> I agree with rob
[23:03:17] <Arturo Servin Ü> there is a problem. we need to figure out what it is
[23:03:39] <Arturo Servin Ü> @randy, yes of course. Count on me on that
[23:04:08] <Randy Bush> can you put up an rpki.net validator so we can see its graphs?
[23:04:14] <Karen O'Donoghue> Sriram's slides…
[23:04:15] <Karen O'Donoghue> slide 2
[23:04:17] <Arturo Servin Ü> Yes,
[23:04:30] <Randy Bush> i can put one up at the linx in london and even one in jo'burg
[23:04:32] <Arturo Servin Ü> I was busy with the IPv6 launch, but I will work on that this week
[23:04:49] <Randy Bush> thanks. if you need anything from us, just ask
[23:05:01] <Arturo Servin Ü> I will put on in Montevideo, another in Sao Paolo
[23:05:14] <Arturo Servin Ü> I will chase some mexicans too
[23:05:26] <Randy Bush> they shoot back!
[23:05:31] <Randy Bush> :(
[23:06:01] <Rob Austein> Thanks, Arturo
[23:10:36] <weiler> we lost phone
[23:10:38] <morrowc> quiet all of a sudden?
[23:10:51] <morrowc> oh conf phone there died?
[23:10:53] <Karen O'Donoghue> apparently we just hung up...
[23:10:56] <Wes George> phone died of boredom
[23:10:59] <morrowc> good times.
[23:11:04] <Karen O'Donoghue> redialing now...
[23:11:34] <weiler> my guess: the line has a max call length configured?
[23:11:49] <mikeb> yes phone works
[23:11:57] <Sean Turner> it was coming and going
[23:12:00] <Sean Turner> but it's back now
[23:12:05] <Randy Bush> speak please
[23:12:07] <Randy Bush> thanks
[23:13:52] <morrowc> nice
[23:26:32] <weiler> testing
[23:29:47] <morrowc> yes
[23:32:04] <Randy Bush> sean, if i sign the same message twice, will the sigs be different?
[23:34:18] <weiler> (not sean) using ECC, yes, I think so.
[23:35:17] <weiler> in fact, I think it's vital that they be (specifically, vital that different random numbers be chosen for each sig)
[23:35:24] <weiler> RSA is a different story
[23:41:48] <asonalker> i agree
[23:43:52] <p.krishnaswamy.ietf> someone in the room at some point a while back was talking about storing signed updates to expedite reconv. so that would not work.
[23:45:06] <Sean Turner> okay folks I gotta run!
[23:45:12] <morrowc> slide 2 ?
[23:45:15] <Karen O'Donoghue> bye
[23:45:19] <Sean Turner> l8r
[23:45:21] <Karen O'Donoghue> still slide 2
[23:45:24] <Sean Turner> ;)
[23:45:29] Sean Turner leaves the room
[23:48:21] <Karen O'Donoghue> sriram's slides: slide 3
[23:53:17] <morrowc> are we all done?
[23:53:21] <morrowc> can we go home?
[23:54:51] <weiler> seems like "no"
[23:55:43] <morrowc> 'meeting for the next meeting' discussion this is?
[23:55:45] mguod leaves the room
[23:57:08] <morrowc> speak up brian
[23:57:10] <morrowc> pls
[23:57:16] <Wes George> yes
[23:58:13] melkins leaves the room
[23:58:23] <Karen O'Donoghue> brian would prefer Saturday… but there are other conflicts
[23:58:31] mlepinski leaves the room
[23:58:42] <weiler> any last topics?
[23:58:45] <Karen O'Donoghue> dissolving into chaos … any last inputs
[23:59:01] <morrowc> all done.
[23:59:03] <morrowc> bye
[23:59:05] morrowc leaves the room
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