IETF
sidr
sidr@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, 26 March 2012< ^ >
melkins has set the subject to: SIDR WG http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/79/agenda/sidr.html
Room Configuration

GMT+0
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[11:04:58] <roque> anyone knows if there are trying to set webex up?
[11:08:59] <Melinda> not me
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[11:12:59] <roque> so, I left webex and connected to the audio streaming, I can hear Sandy solving her problems
[11:13:04] <roque> with the connectivity
[11:13:11] aservin leaves the room
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[11:13:58] <brian.peter.dickson> test
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[11:16:36] <roque> pong
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[11:18:22] <Wes George> ok, I'm jabber scribing
[11:18:24] <Wes George> agenda bashing
[11:18:40] <Wes George> postponing brian's preso due to technical difficulties
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[11:20:30] <Joel Jaeggli> do not see wbex info for sidr on http://www.ietf.org/meeting/83/remote-participation.html#webex
[11:20:33] <brian.peter.dickson> remote audio - have sriram speak up please, or move mic closer to his mouth?
[11:20:39] <Wes George> sriram presenting
[11:20:42] <Wes George> ack standby
[11:21:14] <brian.peter.dickson> yes thanks
[11:21:14] <Wes George> better?
[11:21:24] <roque> much better
[11:21:25] <Wes George> I believe we're on slide 3 now
[11:21:31] <Joel Jaeggli> ah it's on the email
[11:21:35] <Wes George> 4
[11:21:38] <weiler> "but reality is...."
[11:21:46] <Jeffrey Haas> Also, please help with minutes: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sidr/minutes
[11:22:43] <Wes George> number of paths...
[11:22:53] <Wes George> some largish ISP cones
[11:23:29] asonalker joins the room
[11:23:56] <Wes George> cost to sign...
[11:24:12] John Scudder joins the room
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[11:25:19] <Joel Jaeggli> fyi I joined the conference call
[11:25:27] <Wes George> updates per sec
[11:25:29] <Joel Jaeggli> nobody on it but me
[11:25:44] <Wes George> joel - problems with the chair's computer connecting to wireless
[11:25:44] <Joel Jaeggli> e.g. brian D is not on call either
[11:25:50] <Wes George> unable to skype to it
[11:25:54] <Joel Jaeggli> no kidding
[11:26:05] <brian.peter.dickson> was on but host wasn't so I hung up
[11:26:10] <Joel Jaeggli> but brian is not on the call
[11:26:17] <Joel Jaeggli> so no point
[11:26:19] <brian.peter.dickson> Can go on again - just a minute
[11:26:40] <Wes George> next slide - validation cost model
[11:27:11] Benno Overeinder joins the room
[11:27:48] <Joel Jaeggli> in theory I could patch this thing into the audio
[11:28:09] <Joel Jaeggli> sounds like you joined
[11:28:10] <Wes George> that might be a more elegant solution than what we used in IDR (chair mic)
[11:28:20] <weiler> can you hear anything through the line that just dialed in?
[11:28:36] <weiler> can you hear sriram?
[11:28:41] <brian.peter.dickson> not at the momeny
[11:29:01] <Joel Jaeggli> the only mic in the webex call would be me
[11:29:07] <brian.peter.dickson> am getting audio via stream, though, just not via phone/webex
[11:29:09] <weiler> no, i just added one.
[11:29:15] <weiler> and just took it away
[11:29:19] <Wes George> "need not sign to stubs"
[11:29:52] <Wes George> stub as vs transit
[11:30:07] <weiler> joel: do you/we have appropriate cables to get a feed from the mixer in the room?
[11:30:17] <weiler> and vice-versa?
[11:30:33] <Joel Jaeggli> there's a mini jack up front for input
[11:30:35] <Wes George> data on number of peers/router
[11:30:39] <Joel Jaeggli> to the board
[11:30:46] <weiler> nice.
[11:30:57] york joins the room
[11:31:29] <Wes George> signing cpu cost
[11:31:36] Dave Freedman joins the room
[11:32:11] <Joel Jaeggli> I have no splitter handy to split line/mic on my mac so it would be mic-in line-out
[11:32:51] <Joel Jaeggli> if brian can speak on the bridge I can check my levels
[11:32:53] <Wes George> cpu for validation and signgin
[11:34:10] <Wes George> summary
[11:34:55] <Wes George> questions from jabber, please precede with "mic:" so that I know to channel
[11:35:13] <brian.peter.dickson> webex - can you hear me over that or do you want me to call some specific number to reach "the bridge"?? I am using the webex with audio via phone per webex instructions
[11:36:05] <york> Wes George at the mic
[11:37:39] <york> Rudiger Volk was at mic
[11:37:42] <roque> Question: For the validation process, did you consider the load to read the keys used for every validation? When considering what process have in their spec. it is normally for the a validating operation using one only server key but in BGPSEC, every signature needs to be validated with a different key that needs to be loaded to the crypto module.
[11:37:44] <york> Randy Bush is now at mic
[11:39:05] <Joel Jaeggli> don't hear myself on the call
[11:39:24] <Joel Jaeggli> need the chairs code for this call
[11:39:31] <brian.peter.dickson> joel - I think someone needs to join webex as host for audio
[11:39:48] <Joel Jaeggli> right I don't have the host code
[11:39:49] <york> Shane Amante at mic
[11:39:53] <weiler> i'll ask sandy
[11:40:14] <Joel Jaeggli> I have two devices dialed into it right now
[11:40:19] <Wes George> roque - did you want that channeled to the mic?
[11:40:36] <roque> yes
[11:40:39] <Wes George> ok
[11:40:59] <roque> but i am fine if no more time
[11:41:04] <roque> I can ask on the list
[11:41:16] <Wes George> yeah, they cut lines, so might be worth sending to list
[11:41:20] <Wes George> jeff haas at mic
[11:42:18] <york> Brian wise at mic
[11:43:37] <weiler> Weis.
[11:44:19] <Dave Freedman> so I'm looking forward to retro-fitting my routers with graphics cards..
[11:44:36] <Wes George> BGPSec over CUDA FTW
[11:45:04] <brian.peter.dickson> Not as such, but anyone who wants to skype me can do that for audio, or phone me at +1 571 420 9095
[11:45:12] <Dave Freedman> we could outsource route validation to the EC2 GPU instances
[11:45:30] <Wes George> sure until we lose routes to Amazon ;-)
[11:45:41] Jeffrey Haas plays clown car music to go along with presentation difficulties.
[11:45:52] <Wes George> lol
[11:46:17] <weiler> ~13 lag on the mp3 audio stream, fyi
[11:46:21] <weiler> seconds
[11:47:27] <Jeffrey Haas> We can hear you Brian
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[11:48:34] <Dave Freedman> argh, narrowband
[11:49:36] <Wes George> currently on "comedy of errors" slide
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[11:51:01] <Wes George> getting it backwards
[11:51:08] <Wes George> what a route leak isn't
[11:53:01] <Dave Freedman> without spoiling this for anybody, watch for references to IRR, RPKI, Gao-Rexford conditions or NS-BGP
[11:53:04] <Dave Freedman> you'll find none
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[11:53:32] <Wes George> skipped to "route leaks are not policy" slide
[11:53:40] <Wes George> "neighbor categories"
[11:54:06] <weiler> are these slides posted?
[11:54:31] <Wes George> Route Leaks -- Definitions
draft-dickson-sidr-route-leak-def-01
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dickson-sidr-route-leak-def
Route Leaks -- Requirements for Detection and Prevention thereof
draft-dickson-sidr-route-leak-reqts-02
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dickson-sidr-route-leak-reqts
Route Leaks -- Proposed Solutions
draft-dickson-sidr-route-leak-solns-01
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dickson-sidr-route-leak-solns
[11:54:47] <Wes George> oh wait, those are the drafts. sec
[11:54:47] <weiler> not drafts. slides.
[11:54:50] <Dave Freedman> I'd be happy with a cli knob which let me colour neighbours appropriately (working in the background with communities to enforce the policy), this may at least encourage some less switched-on operators to tighten their ship up a bit through the ease of use.
[11:54:54] <asonalker> yes they are. slides link: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/slides/slides-83-sidr-3.pptx
[11:55:42] <asonalker> Link to Brian's slides: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/slides/slides-83-sidr-3.pptx
[11:55:51] <Wes George> "route links are not policy"
[11:55:55] <weiler> PPT may explain why they look so mangled. chris has a linux box, likely running OpenOffice or LibreOffice.
[11:56:05] <Wes George> Dave, when you mention gao-rexford, are you referring to: http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~jrex/papers/sigmetrics00.pdf
[11:56:23] <John Scudder> He's running OOO, or at least that was the crash screen that opened the preso.
[11:56:44] <Wes George> Sam, fighting technology appears to be the order of the day ;-)
[11:57:07] <Wes George> open office FAIL
[11:57:24] <John Scudder> Brian, pause a second please
[11:57:24] <weiler> Brian?
[11:57:29] Sean Turner joins the room
[11:57:35] <weiler> we need a PDF.
[11:57:46] <Jeffrey Haas> The IDR presentation of this morning has slides
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[11:59:26] <weiler> are they in PDF?
[11:59:32] <John Scudder> Yes.
[12:00:21] <Dave Freedman> wes: I just emailed you the ns-bgp slide deck
[12:00:26] <John Scudder> Route Leaks <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/slides/slides-83-idr-9.pdf>
[12:00:42] <Wes George> thanks dave
[12:00:51] <york> Slide is now "Customer -> All - Good"
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[12:01:14] <Dave Freedman> see slide 8
[12:01:29] <Dave Freedman> and 9
[12:01:38] <york> Slide "All -> Customer - Good"
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[12:02:19] <Wes George> slide transit - transit/peer
[12:03:22] <Wes George> peer-transit/peer
[12:03:27] <Wes George> diagrams - now with mutual transit
[12:04:35] <Wes George> our customer- all good
[12:04:43] smb leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[12:05:32] <Wes George> peer - any transit/peer
[12:05:35] <dongtingyu> I am not getting a video with webex and the teleconference does not work either -- does it work for others?
[12:05:45] <Wes George> no, we've given up on that
[12:05:51] <Wes George> use audio stream from IETF room
[12:06:04] <Wes George> and offline copy of slides
[12:06:12] <dongtingyu> ok. thanks
[12:06:20] <Wes George> <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/slides/slides-83-idr-9.pdf>
[12:07:26] <Wes George> now on color markings and transitions
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[12:09:11] <Wes George> moving to "the BIG picture"
[12:09:38] <Wes George> eesh... building slide -> PDF renders this pretty much nonsensical
[12:11:15] <John Scudder> there is no build in the pptx
[12:11:33] <Wes George> so it's like that in both? yikes
[12:11:42] <Wes George> now on "route leak blocking logic"
[12:13:35] <Wes George> "the internet drafts"
[12:15:25] <Wes George> wes george, then john scudder @ mic
[12:16:30] <york> Steve from Columbia University
[12:16:50] <Dave Freedman> no, there is an operational problem space which needs to be properly documented and agreed first
[12:16:50] <weiler> Bellovin.
[12:17:08] <weiler> This is Doug Montgomery.
[12:18:04] <york> Rüdiger Volk at mic
[12:19:01] <weiler> randy fixing the mic.
[12:19:01] <york> Randy Bush on 'pfx-validate' - http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sidr-pfx-validate
[12:19:30] <Wes George> marking bgp updates
[12:20:15] <Wes George> result of check
[12:20:18] <Wes George> slide 3
[12:20:22] <Wes George> yay slide numbers!
[12:20:28] <John Scudder> ^^!
[12:20:34] <york> Slides - http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/slides/slides-83-sidr-6.pdf
[12:20:52] <Wes George> slide 4
[12:21:01] <Wes George> slide 5
[12:22:08] <Wes George> slide6
[12:22:36] <Wes George> slide 7
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[12:23:38] <Wes George> slide 8
[12:25:38] <Wes George> slide 9
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[12:33:30] <york> Geoff Huston at mic
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[12:33:57] <york> Steve Bellovin at mic
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[12:34:58] <york> Joel Jaggli at mic
[12:35:33] <weiler> jaeggli. :-)
[12:35:51] <weiler> Keyur Patel.
[12:35:51] <york> thanks
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[12:36:54] <Wes George> jeff haas
[12:37:21] <Wes George> "order of doom"... I like that
[12:37:28] <Wes George> igor gashinsky
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[12:38:24] <weiler> can everyone hear rob?
[12:38:40] <york> Rob Austein talking
[12:38:47] <york> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/slides/slides-83-sidr-10.pdf
[12:39:06] <Wes George> slide 2
[12:39:33] <Wes George> slide 3
[12:40:12] <Wes George> slide 4
[12:40:43] <Wes George> slide 56
[12:40:44] <Wes George> 5
[12:41:35] <Wes George> "object counts: observations"
[12:41:50] <Wes George> connection count
[12:42:47] <Wes George> shane amante @ mic
[12:43:28] <Wes George> objects/connection
[12:44:15] <Wes George> seconds/object
[12:44:54] <Wes George> seconds/object log
[12:45:29] <Wes George> seconds/object: observ
[12:45:53] <Wes George> average conx duration
[12:46:19] <york> wes george at mic
[12:46:44] <Wes George> avg conx duration:observations
[12:47:01] <Wes George> failure rate
[12:47:38] <Wes George> failure rate (log)
[12:48:01] <Wes George> failure rate observations
[12:49:00] <Wes George> rate limiting
[12:50:10] <Wes George> skipping ahead
[12:50:15] <Wes George> eric osterweil
[12:50:54] jimsch leaves the room
[12:51:10] <Wes George> "things we're not measuring (yet)"
[12:51:40] <Wes George> jeff haas
[12:52:20] <Wes George> martin levy
[12:54:57] <york> "RPKI Over BitTorrent"
[12:54:59] <Dave Freedman> we're not measuring either jeff or martin
[12:55:06] <Wes George> presentation link: http://iepg.org/2012-03-ietf83/rpki-bittorrent-experiment.pdf
[12:55:09] <york> Rob Austein speaking again
[12:55:14] <Wes George> "problem we're trying to solve"
[12:55:31] <Wes George> "simplest retrieval topology"
[12:55:39] <Wes George> "direct rsync"
[12:56:16] <Wes George> "what can relying parties..."
[12:56:54] Sean Turner leaves the room
[12:56:58] <Wes George> "hierarchical rsync"
[12:57:38] <Wes George> "other protocols?"
[12:57:55] <Wes George> "flooding protos"
[12:58:13] <Wes George> "experimental goals"
[12:58:42] <Wes George> "bittorrent retrieval"
[12:59:05] <Wes George> "translating uris..."
[12:59:22] <Wes George> "operational overview"
[12:59:32] <Wes George> this slide may be missing from the slide deck link I provided
[13:00:14] <Wes George> "creating a torrent"
[13:00:28] <Wes George> "fetching"
[13:00:52] york leaves the room
[13:00:53] <Wes George> "other details"
[13:01:13] <Wes George> "like 'broadcatching'"
[13:01:19] Mem Sandberg leaves the room
[13:01:21] <Wes George> "tradeoffs"
[13:01:28] <Wes George> (skipped a few )
[13:01:31] Joel Jaeggli leaves the room
[13:01:33] <Wes George> tradeoffs pros
[13:01:57] <Wes George> cons
[13:03:05] <Wes George> morrow talking about interim meetings
[13:03:19] <Wes George> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/slides/slides-83-sidr-8.pdf
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[13:04:41] <Wes George> session ends
[13:04:45] Wes George leaves the room
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[13:05:18] <roque> thanks Wes
[13:05:24] <roque> great work
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