Tuesday, July 27, 2021< ^ >
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

[18:39:55] Meetecho joins the room
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[18:57:18] <francesca> Good morning Bron
[18:57:50] <francesca> Hello everybody
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[18:59:43] <Henk Birkholz_web_583> Hi Francesaca!
[18:59:54] <Ujjwal Sharma_web_480> Hello!
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[19:00:44] <Ujjwal Sharma_web_480> Question: is the XMPP bridge not working for SEDATE?
[19:01:00] <Mark McFadden_web_644> It's working for me.
[19:01:20] <francesca> Hi Henk! :)
[19:01:27] <francesca> works for me Ujjwal
[19:01:36] <Ujjwal Sharma_web_480> I'm over at but I don't see anyone or anything...
[19:01:59] <Ujjwal Sharma_web_480> did I get the room wrong or is it my client?
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[19:02:50] <ryzokuken> oh
[19:02:55] <Meetecho> I'm from a regular Jabber client and I can see everything
[19:03:00] <ryzokuken> so it was the client it turns out
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[19:03:33] <ryzokuken> it works now, thanks all
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[19:13:05] <Pete Resnick_web_258> The slides don't seem to be updating for me. Others?
[19:14:23] <Alexey Melnikov_web_233> I think they are updating for me...
[19:14:26] <Meetecho> Pete: slides seem to be progressing
[19:14:36] <Pete Resnick_web_258> I'll try reconnecting.
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[19:14:47] <Meetecho> If you hover over the video feed, you can try the pause/restart button
[19:14:51] Pete Resnick_web_352 joins the room
[19:15:12] <Meetecho> Pete: see message above for a less disruptive fix :)
[19:15:43] <Pete Resnick_web_352> Ah, well. Reconnecting fixed it. :-)
[19:15:50] <Meetecho> Ack!
[19:16:21] <Pete Resnick_web_352> So I may have accidentally hit pause. Interesting.
[19:17:42] <Meetecho> The pause button would have hidden the slides, and inserted a placeholder
[19:17:50] <Meetecho> It sounds more like the stream had frozen for some reason
[19:17:59] <Pete Resnick_web_352> Ack.
[19:22:32] <Pete Resnick_web_352> Of course adopting doesn't make it "standards track", but the Internet runs on Internet Drafts anyway, so implement to your heart's content, I suppose.
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[19:28:36] <Alexey Melnikov_web_233> Somebody is typing in background. Can you please mute?
[19:30:50] <Bron Gondwana_web_576> thanks Alexey, I muted!
[19:32:32] <Pete Resnick_web_352> +1 to use cases and or applicability help.
[19:33:11] <John C Klensin> I share a variation on Pete's concern.  Syntax is easy.  Semantics are hard and might differ by use/ context/ application and should really be spelled out.
[19:34:34] <Pete Resnick_web_352> Agree John. In fact, I think a bunch of those uses/contexts/applications are probably all valid and implementers need to be warned/advised as to what they should use in each such application.
[19:34:49] <Pete Resnick_web_352> (Both producers and consumers)
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[19:38:22] <Ned Freed_web_662> Another interesting issue is what happens if you use this extended format in a context where some of the metadata if provides duplicates fields in the outer format and some of it doesn't.
[19:39:09] <John C Klensin> @Ned: yep.
[19:39:56] <Ned Freed_web_662> For example, you might have a format where, say, there's a timestamp field and a time zone rules field. If you decide to replace/extend the timestamp field with this, you need to deal with the potential conflict.
[19:41:52] <John C Klensin> And, as usualk if that time zone info if future or significannly past, all of the issues we have sadly learned about, starting with changes over time and changes in the relationshiip of locality and time zone.
[19:42:58] <John C Klensin> I am not sure this means things worse, but I think it is another reason for getting things cataloged and written down, not just a syntax that is designed for one purpose and claimed to apply more generally
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[19:43:33] <Pete Resnick_web_352> So what Neil is (justifiably) saying is that date-times in calendaring systems are *not* instantaneous times, and therefore the offset portion should be optional.
[19:43:46] <kbare> I believe I read one of -0000 or +0000 is used to indicate the offset is not known.
[19:44:12] <Pete Resnick_web_352> -0000 is how it was defined in 2822/5322
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[19:47:04] <Pete Resnick_web_352> -0000 is probably better than making the offset optional.
[19:48:41] <Pete Resnick_web_352> Please mute Neil.
[19:48:59] <Pete Resnick_web_352> Thx
[19:50:48] <Alexey Melnikov_web_233> And of course geo-information has privacy implications
[19:53:01] <Ned Freed_web_662> So does time zone, which implies location.
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[19:53:06] <John C Klensin> @AkexeyL abd, sufficiently far in he future, with eartquakes and rising sea levals, not necessarily stable wrt intent either
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[19:56:03] <Alexey Melnikov_web_233> Ned Freed: true, but granularity is usually different.
[19:56:14] <Alexey Melnikov_web_233> John Klensin: good point :-)
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[19:57:03] <Bron Gondwana_web_576> even offset has privacy implications!
[19:57:03] <Ned Freed_web_662> It's nice we've moved past the days when nobody seemed to get how time zone rules are this mutable thing that's different from a fixed offset, but maybe now we can assume that everyone does understand this?
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[19:57:12] <Pete Resnick_web_352> Perhaps lets move this along Bron?
[19:57:18] <Bron Gondwana_web_576> yep, in a sec
[19:58:10] <Ned Freed_web_662> Anyway, I have a conflict with another meeting. See you all at emailcore...
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[19:59:31] <John C Klensin> Ned: Sadly, yes
[20:01:30] <Pete Resnick_web_352> The use cases don't have to be complete; just appropriate clarity about the *kinds* of things that the parts are useful for.
[20:01:51] <John C Klensin> agreed
[20:03:09] <Pete Resnick_web_352> Well, focused on one non-specific issue. :wink:
[20:03:58] <Pete Resnick_web_352> The creation of the WG did that part.
[20:04:44] <Pete Resnick_web_352> Adoption is that we've decided this document is the right start for solving the problem.
[20:04:57] <Alexey Melnikov_web_233> Adopting means that the WG is happy to use the document as the starting point
[20:05:12] <Alexey Melnikov_web_233> It doesn't mean that the document is correct, complete, etc
[20:06:46] <Pete Resnick_web_352> With the name of this WG, am I meant to be constantly hear the Ramones song in my head (a band from my home town)?
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[20:07:21] <ryzokuken> Pete Resnick_web_352, only until the sedative kicks in, of course 😛
[20:07:56] <Pete Resnick_web_352> Take the call to the mailing list or twist arms offline.
[20:07:58] <Alexey Melnikov_web_233> I will review at some point. But no cycles to edit, I have too many other obligations
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[20:10:51] <Pete Resnick_web_143> Early is good.
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[20:11:17] <francesca> Thanks Bron and Mark!
[20:11:25] <Pete Resnick_web_143> Well done. Good discussion.
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[20:11:41] <francesca> meetecho: session over! :)
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[20:11:52] <Meetecho> Got it, thx!
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