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[14:08:06] <Bruno Rijsman> Yes, we can hear you fine.
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[14:09:00] <Lester Kim> Hello, yes we can hear you
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[14:09:22] <Benjamin Kaduk> In other sessions I've seen many people accidentally request to send video when they wanted to request to send audio.
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[14:10:49] <Melchior Aelmans> Perhaps the chairs should share screen/slides and presenters only talk
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[14:11:03] <Melchior Aelmans> that works best as seen in other WGs
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[14:11:28] <Wojciech Kozlowski> We do have that as a fallback, we decided that since our schedule isn't too tight we can let the presenters do it themselves
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[14:12:06] <Ira McDonald> try slide show mode
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[14:12:55] <Rodney Van Meter> Still calling for a minute taker!
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[14:13:23] <Robin Wilton> OK, I'll try and take minutes...
[14:13:40] <Robin Wilton> (as long as you just wnt actions, not a narrative!)a
[14:13:41] <Jennifer Gabriel> I'm a first timer, but I would volunteer if it makes sense.
[14:13:48] <Jennifer Gabriel> Thank you Robin!
[14:13:53] <Lester Kim> I am trying to find Jabber
[14:14:02] <Lester Kim> Unless this is it
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[14:14:59] <Jennifer Gabriel> OK. :-)
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[14:16:25] <Stuart Card> They are typically Informational or Experimental.
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[14:17:09] <Tim Chown> many IETF docs are also informational or experimental as well.
[14:17:10] <Melchior Aelmans> doesn't really matter in the end. there have been informational documents implemented and some RFCs will never be implemented :)
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[14:22:04] <Adam Wiethuechter> I can see slides
[14:22:13] <Benjamin Kaduk> I also can see slides
[14:22:20] <Rodney Van Meter> Am I the only one not seeing slides?
[14:22:31] <Wojciech Kozlowski> Yea, I see the slides as well
[14:22:32] <Lester Kim> I can see the slides
[14:22:33] <Dirk Kutscher> I see the slides
[14:22:44] <Rodney Van Meter> Does anyone *not* see the slides?
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[14:22:48] <Wojciech Kozlowski> Check if you are in presentation mode in the top right, I don't really have any other suggestions
[14:23:15] <Benjamin Kaduk> However, I do not see Rodney's video feed anymore.
[14:23:26] <Rodney Van Meter> I turned off video.
[14:23:33] <Meetecho> If you clicked the "Gallery view" icon (second in the row in the top-right) it will indeed hide the slides
[14:23:34] <Tim Chown> it is fine here
[14:23:56] <Rodney Van Meter> I'm definitely in presentation mode.
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[14:24:11] <Tim Chown> refrshing can help
[14:24:31] <Rodney Van Meter> == reload from the browser?
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[14:24:48] <Meetecho> Rodney Van Meter: yes, either that or leaving and rejoining
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[14:24:59] <Tim Chown> yes.  which reconnects you
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[14:25:40] <Rodney Van Meter> Reload cleared it up, but I lost the chat history :-(.
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[14:26:37] <Melchior Aelmans> Just a small hint for those not familiair with the tooling; there are sessions organised prefacing the meeting that will guide you through it and there's also a test url
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[14:34:50] <Scott Fluhrer> Isn't the problem "how to prevent eavesdropping on classical channels?" a solved problem?  Yes, it's nice to have a reminder that we need to do so, but we know how to do it
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[14:39:52] <佐々木寿彦> How to identify hijacked node? It seems that attack strategy heavily depends on that.
[14:40:22] <Rodney Van Meter> @sasaki-san, an English name would be helpful for the log.
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[14:41:51] <Wojciech Kozlowski> @Takahiko Satoh, you can still answer the question in the chat
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[14:45:18] <Takahiko Satoh> @sasaki-san We increase the detection rate by randomizing the timing of the tomography. We have briefly discussed the resources needed in previous papers.(https://arxiv.org/abs/1701.04587)
[14:46:24] <Rodney Van Meter> FYI, when I download Chonggang's file from Datatracker, it comes without an extension, but it's a .pptx file.
[14:47:22] <Toshihiko Sasaki> @satoh-san Thanks. I will check it.
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[14:48:23] <Takahiko Satoh> Once an attacker makes an indiscriminate attack we can identify the hijacked nodes. However, if the attacker acts cautiously, it is very difficult to identify them.
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[14:51:23] <Takahiko Satoh> @ScottThe defense of the classical channel was outside the scope of our study. While this issue is very important, we will need to rely on classical security techniques.
[14:51:33] <Melchior Aelmans> @Scott Fluhrer, isn't the biggest problem of QKD dat the key generation and quantum side is pretty safe but distributing keys isn't? In other words, there's no way to detect eavesdropping on classical channels indeed and so the keys can never be distributed in a fashion so that you are sure no-one else has seen it
[14:52:31] <Melchior Aelmans> @Takahiko what would you use to secure classical channels in order to make then 'quantum safe'?
[14:53:05] <SIM Dong-hi> this presentation slides seem corrupted. I cannot open
[14:53:15] <SIM Dong-hi> it
[14:53:24] <Melchior Aelmans> rename to .pptx as suggested by Rodney
[14:53:46] <SIM Dong-hi> ok thanks. Maybe I did not see that msg
[14:54:04] <Wojciech Kozlowski> If you open the file in the browser (instead of downloading) it will render it (chrome at least does)
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[14:55:14] <Tim Chown> pdf is ok for me
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[14:56:07] <Tim Chown> publishing both together makes sense.
[14:57:34] <Tim Chown> that sounds like a topic for a separate draft.
[14:59:14] <Takahiko Satoh> @Melchior I believe that QKD before classical communication is important. Of course, the relay QNodes must not be hijacked!
[14:59:59] <Joey> thanks
[15:00:34] <Melchior Aelmans> @Joey good suggestions; if you find usecases are not described in the draft please suggest. Anonymising data is an interesting one
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[15:01:47] <Melchior Aelmans> @Takahiko the issues is distribution of keys via classical links
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[15:01:53] <SIM Dong-hi> According to your slide, for stage 1, a lot of works are happening in ETSI and ITU-T. Even lots of pilots are available and even commercial one. Do you want to incorporate those into this draft?
[15:02:55] <Scott Fluhrer> @Melchior Aelmans actually, there are known quantum safe classical key exchange mechanisms that we can use; we don't need to use "Quantum" for everything
[15:03:15] <Joey> @Melchior thank you will do, is there a github for it? Or mostly through the mailing list?
[15:03:37] <Melchior Aelmans> Joey, you can email the authors or use the list if you like
[15:04:42] <Rodney Van Meter> We can also come back to unfinished questions in the Open floor. We will have a little less than 30 minutes for that.
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[15:05:30] <Bruno Rijsman> @joey see openquantumsafe.org, for example
[15:06:10] <Melchior Aelmans> @Scott, are you referring to Lattice-based cryptograph or elliptic curve?
[15:06:13] <Shota Nagayama> thank you too Wojtek :)
[15:06:54] <Scott Fluhrer> @Melchoir not "elliptic curve" (unless you mean SIDH).  But, otherwise, yes (and code-based key exchange as well)
[15:08:13] <Melchior Aelmans> ack
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[15:16:31] <Joey> @Bruno @Melchior ack thank you
[15:17:43] <Rodney Van Meter> https://arxiv.org/abs/1105.1238
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[15:25:49] <Melchior Aelmans> it's won't cut automatically
[15:26:00] <Melchior Aelmans> it just happend to a few meetings by accident
[15:26:52] <Robin Wilton> Is the group looking at quantum cryptanalysis at all, or is that out of scope?
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[15:27:27] <Scott Fluhrer> @Robin Wilton I suspect that's out of scope
[15:29:03] <Ira McDonald> NIST Round 3 Post Quantum candidates were just announced last week
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[15:30:01] <Robin Wilton> Thanks both
[15:30:26] <Julien Maisonneuve> itu FG are transient, you should also think of SG
[15:30:56] <Robin Wilton> In that sense, yes
[15:31:06] <Peter Koch> the IETF's liaison to ITU-T is involved, I'd assume?
[15:31:31] <Wojciech Kozlowski> Yes, the IETF liaison is involved
[15:31:42] <Robin Wilton> @Rod OK, thanks - fair enough
[15:31:59] <Jonathan Hammell> FG QIT4N: https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/focusgroups/qit4n/Pages/default.aspx
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[15:32:38] <Ira McDonald> Link coming
[15:32:39] <Jonathan Hammell> ETSI ISG-QKD: https://www.etsi.org/committee/qkd
[15:33:05] <Ira McDonald> https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/post-quantum-cryptography/round-3-submissions
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[15:33:21] <Shota Nagayama> About the use case document. I think quantum internet algorithms found so far are only a few portion of the all quantum internet algorithms and more and more algorithm will be discovered. I would think that adding more abstracted pattern of use cases would make this document valuable long, like, prepare Bell pair and measurement.  Table 1 on https://arxiv.org/pdf/1701.04586.pdf and Dahlberg’s Link Layer protocol paper has similar summary.
[15:33:23] <Robin Wilton> hehe - mentioning quantum cryptanalysis can induce temporary zone-out
[15:33:26] <Wojciech Kozlowski> US Blueprint for the Quantum Internet: https://www.energy.gov/articles/quantum-internet-future-here
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[15:35:32] <csperkins> I missed the earlier discussion, but there’s post-quantum crypto work happening in CFRG
[15:36:00] <SIM Dong-hi> regarding ITU-T works, there are two study groups (SG) in ITU-T working on QKD. In SG13, there are standardizing the network aspects of QKD which means how to incorporate QKD into telecom networks. In SG17, the security aspects of QKD in the telecom networks are considered.
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[15:36:20] <Rodney Van Meter> @Charlie are they meeting this week?
[15:37:23] <Rodney Van Meter> Doh, @Colin (had Charlie Perkins on the brain)
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[15:39:00] <Scott Fluhrer> @Rodney not quite sure who you're asking about, but if it's the CFRG, no, they met two weeks ago
[15:39:08] <Robin Wilton> @csperkins Thanks Colin!
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[15:40:03] <csperkins> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hoffman-c2pq/
[15:40:23] <Ira McDonald> https://datatracker.ietf.org/rg/cfrg/documents/
[15:40:23] <csperkins> And CFRG are not meeting this week
[15:42:07] <Robin Wilton> Name of  speaker please?current
[15:42:14] <Robin Wilton> *current speaker
[15:42:16] <Wojciech Kozlowski> Jim Reid
[15:42:19] <Robin Wilton> thx
[15:43:06] <Joey> +1 to summarizing the discussions' spaces in the ml including how to get involved there as well
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[15:49:46] <Joey> thanks!!
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[15:50:01] <Melchior Aelmans> thanks all!
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[15:50:06] <Robin Wilton> Thanks everyone. Please  do check the minutes for accuracy 8^o
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[15:50:13] <Robin Wilton> Thank you1
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[15:50:18] <Jennifer Gabriel> Thank you, see you on the ml! And thank you for giving me the possibility to
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[15:51:34] <Tim Chown> very good ty!
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