IETF
precis@jabber.ietf.org
Wednesday, March 25, 2015< ^ >
Yoshiro Yoneya has set the subject to: precis wg :) | http://tools.ietf.org/wg/precis/ | IETF 91 | slides at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/91/materials.html#precis | audio at http://ietf91streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf916.m3u | meetecho at http://www.meetecho.com/ietf91/precis
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
[20:04:43] stpeter joins the room
[20:17:37] Peter SaintAndre joins the room
[20:18:12] Meetecho joins the room
[20:18:25] <Peter SaintAndre> hummmmm
[20:18:33] <Peter SaintAndre> heh
[20:19:48] Barry Leiba joins the room
[20:20:22] <stpeter> Meetecho: in the WebRTC interface I show up as "passive" and I don't have any mic/camera options, will rejoin to see if that helps (maybe I missed an option on joining)
[20:20:42] <Meetecho> stpeter: you need a different link to join as speaker
[20:20:52] <Meetecho> by default all attendees are passive
[20:21:02] <Meetecho> I'll pass it privately
[20:21:24] Peter SaintAndre leaves the room
[20:21:27] <stpeter> aha ok
[20:21:34] <Meetecho> actually, now that I think about it
[20:21:40] <Meetecho> the different link won't matter
[20:21:50] <Meetecho> we need a custom setup with the mixer to allow for remote participation
[20:21:54] <stpeter> nod
[20:21:57] <Meetecho> was this asked? we don't have it on our list
[20:22:01] <stpeter> the chairs can present my slides, no problem
[20:22:05] <stpeter> I don't think we asked for it
[20:22:11] Peter SaintAndre joins the room
[20:22:14] <Meetecho> sorry about that :(
[20:22:23] <stpeter> not your fault!!!
[20:22:33] <stpeter> bad speakers and chairs :-)
[20:22:43] Barry Leiba leaves the room
[20:22:46] John Klensin joins the room
[20:23:09] седая борода joins the room
[20:24:29] marc.blanchet.qc joins the room
[20:24:32] <marc.blanchet.qc> ping
[20:25:02] <stpeter> pong
[20:25:04] <marc.blanchet.qc> Peter (PSA): I haven’t prepared a setup for channeling your audio.
[20:25:18] <marc.blanchet.qc> anyway we can setup this right away%
[20:25:19] <stpeter> marc.blanchet.qc: no problem, there's not much on my slides
[20:25:19] <marc.blanchet.qc> ?
[20:25:28] <marc.blanchet.qc> skype?
[20:25:35] <marc.blanchet.qc> (not good for a jabber guy I know)
[20:25:36] <stpeter> no need, I think
[20:25:36] <седая борода> If I'm седая борода, then Alexey is новая борода.
[20:25:58] <stpeter> I can track things via audio and type here :-)
[20:26:47] Tony Hansen joins the room
[20:27:20] kaorumaeda joins the room
[20:27:33] <stpeter> Meetecho: would you mind moving the camera? it shows the corner of the room :-)
[20:28:00] <stpeter> (not sure if that's possible, perhaps you're not in that meeting room)
[20:28:51] ajsaf@jabber.org joins the room
[20:29:50] Yoshiro Yoneya joins the room
[20:29:51] <John Klensin> @StPeter I think the "corner of the room" may be the front/speaker microphone.
[20:30:03] <stpeter> probably yes
[20:30:03] ajsaf@jabber.org joins the room
[20:30:23] ajsaf@jabber.org leaves the room
[20:30:40] ajsaf@jabber.org joins the room
[20:31:00] <John Klensin> Easier to move Marc than the camera ??
[20:31:17] <stpeter> no worries on the camera
[20:31:24] <седая борода> Looks like the camera's now aimed at the screen.
[20:31:37] <седая борода> I can move it, but I'll upset the Meetecho guys.
[20:31:41] <Tony Hansen> is that better, or do you want it pointing at the chairs?
[20:31:51] <stpeter> WFM
[20:32:07] Simon Romano joins the room
[20:32:07] <Meetecho> Slides are already being captured in a different video feed...
[20:32:12] <Meetecho> please direct the webcam at the chairs
[20:32:39] <John Klensin> @Tonly: At least from Meetecho, the slides are transmitting directly, so Chairs would be better, but ceiling or carpet would be ok too :-)
[20:32:41] <Meetecho> unless there's a speaker of course :)
[20:33:00] <Meetecho> John Klensin: this is not one of the controllable cameras, sorry :D
[20:33:01] <John Klensin> @Tony, Meetecho: yes, exactly.
[20:33:42] <stpeter> mic: regarding SASLprepbis, we received quite a bit of feedback a long time ago from people like Nico Williams and perhaps we could ask them for a sanity check at this time
[20:34:32] Suzanne joins the room
[20:36:24] Mary Barnes joins the room
[20:38:17] <John Klensin> Mic:   It seems to me that, if we are going to publish mapping now, it better contain very strong, and lucid, warnings.
[20:38:28] <stpeter> well played
[20:38:41] <John Klensin> Mic: I think that view is consistent with what Pete is saying.
[20:39:14] <седая борода> Marc kinda-sorta channeled John.
[20:40:14] resnick joins the room
[20:40:50] <resnick> @jck: Are you referring to LUCID-like warnings or more general warnings?
[20:41:20] <John Klensin> ROFL
[20:42:09] <stpeter> my understanding of the problem is less than pellucid
[20:42:09] <John Klensin> @Pete: I was thinking specifically about LUCID, but haven't looked at this draft for a while)
[20:43:07] <resnick> @jck: Ack. I *think* the more general sorts of warnings are in there, but worth reviewing. LUCID-like warnings do need some text, but I don't think too much.
[20:43:08] <John Klensin> I hope someone, ideally the author, can take a careful look and construct something, not just paste in a comment about, e.g., dragons.
[20:43:28] <resnick> agreed.
[20:44:59] Peter SaintAndre leaves the room
[20:45:10] stpeter leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[20:45:17] stpeter joins the room
[20:45:38] Peter SaintAndre joins the room
[20:46:53] ajsaf@jabber.org leaves the room
[20:48:45] седая борода leaves the room
[20:48:49] Franck Martin joins the room
[20:49:48] седая борода joins the room
[20:50:40] <John Klensin> @Pete: agreed, but I think we are a little further along the path than you are assuming
[20:52:20] <Franck Martin> what about aliases for email addresses? is johndoe@gmail.com different from john.doe+ietf@gmail.com ?
[20:52:20] ajsaf@jabber.org leaves the room
[20:52:34] Mario Farina joins the room
[20:53:08] ajsaf@jabber.org joins the room
[20:53:13] <John Klensin> Mic:  "How much to we understand"?   Depends on what you mean by "we" and "understand"   And you should be so lucky as to be able to make the comparison you are looking for.  The "zurich" case doesn't involve the LUCID issue and is _very_ fundamental to what PRECIS is supposed ot be dong.
[20:53:56] Mario Farina leaves the room
[20:54:09] <John Klensin> Normalization doesn't help with that case either, but it turns into a very tricky language-sensitve problem.
[20:54:51] <седая борода> English-only speakers should NOT try to assume what will work in other languages.
[20:55:12] <John Klensin> That was very polite, thanks.
[20:55:16] <седая борода> The "Zurich / Zürich" thing might work.  Other substitutions will not.
[20:55:39] <John Klensin> That's ok, that one won't work either
[20:55:45] <stpeter> People SHOULD NOT try to assume what will work in languages they do not know.
[20:55:55] <седая борода> Genau.
[20:56:01] <ajsaf@jabber.org> or languages they do know
[20:56:07] <седая борода> He-he
[20:56:11] <stpeter> that too
[20:57:14] <stpeter> (1) People SHOULD NOT try to assume what will work in languages they do not know. (2) People SHOULD NOT assume that they understand languages that they think they know.
[20:59:54] <ajsaf@jabber.org> So, in general, (1) People SHOULD NOT try to assume what will work in languages.  (2) If you think you know a language, see rule 1.
[21:00:48] <stpeter> Or "you know what happens when you ASSUME"
[21:01:01] <stpeter> with a footnote to Wittgenstein
[21:01:20] Tom Talpey joins the room
[21:02:13] gabriel mussons joins the room
[21:03:22] <John Klensin> Do we need a "bad attitude" room here?
[21:03:31] <stpeter> Perchance.
[21:03:34] <седая борода> It would seem
[21:03:51] <ajsaf@jabber.org> what, this isn't it?
[21:04:45] <John Klensin> I'm glad I'm not in the room... I'd probably be saying things rude enough to test the harassment model or at least the public rudeness one :-(
[21:05:23] <stpeter> Actually, Ladar's comments are instructive because clearly he cares about the topic in general but he knows even less about internationalization than the rest of us. (Not to pick on him at all, I appreciate his interest!)
[21:06:57] <stpeter> mic: The best way to work on the advice document might be to provide advice (through expert reviews of profiles) and learn what the topics are that would need to be covered.
[21:07:46] <stpeter> Yes, Barry's summary reflects what I was thinking.
[21:08:21] marc.blanchet.qc leaves the room
[21:08:21] седая борода leaves the room
[21:08:22] ajsaf@jabber.org leaves the room
[21:08:32] kaorumaeda leaves the room
[21:08:58] <John Klensin> @stpeter: Agreed.  I'm just troubled by someone who has that little understanding taking up so much time at this late stage in the WG.  I'd be happy to work with him on a reading list, etc., but, in this context...
[21:09:09] <stpeter> Yes.
[21:09:09] Suzanne leaves the room
[21:09:09] resnick leaves the room
[21:09:17] Franck Martin leaves the room
[21:09:20] gabriel mussons leaves the room
[21:09:24] <stpeter> Thanks, all!
[21:09:26] stpeter leaves the room
[21:09:37] Tom Talpey leaves the room
[21:09:49] Peter SaintAndre leaves the room
[21:09:52] Tony Hansen leaves the room
[21:09:56] Yoshiro Yoneya leaves the room
[21:14:32] Meetecho leaves the room
[21:19:46] John Klensin leaves the room
[21:28:23] Simon Romano leaves the room
[21:32:16] Mary Barnes leaves the room
[21:49:00] Suzanne joins the room
[21:49:23] Suzanne leaves the room
[21:54:10] Suzanne joins the room
[21:54:11] Tony Hansen joins the room
[21:54:15] Suzanne leaves the room
[22:05:13] Tony Hansen leaves the room
[22:27:03] marc.blanchet.qc joins the room
[22:28:11] marc.blanchet.qc leaves the room
[22:28:14] marc.blanchet.qc joins the room
[23:16:25] Simon Romano joins the room
Powered by ejabberd Powered by Erlang Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional Valid CSS!