IETF
panrg
panrg@jabber.ietf.org
Wednesday, June 1, 2022< ^ >
cabo has set the subject to: https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-113-panrg
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[15:06:32] <Jelte Jansen_web_921> we'll get there :)
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[15:07:14] <Brian Trammell_web_499> this is why i gave myself five minutes for the agenda and intro :D
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[15:27:47] <Erik Kline_web_287> was there, say, a SCION interop/developer table at the 113 hackathon?
[15:28:15] <Nicola Rustignoli_web_785> Not that I'm aware of
[15:28:41] <Erik Kline_web_287> :thumbsup:
[15:28:58] <Mirja Kühlewind_web_868> no it's the weekend again
[15:29:04] <Mirja Kühlewind_web_868> was in Viienna
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[15:31:24] <Erik Kline_web_287> Is it easy for developers/tinkerers to play with it natively?  (I went looking for, say, and EtherType on the IANA page...)
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[15:33:43] <Ralph Giles_web_448> In a similar vein, what's the status of direct kernel driver support? The only code I found seemed to be oriented toward tunnelling.
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[15:39:11] <zulipbot> (Spencer Dawkins) I'm follow-up to Mirja, so I'll wait until next steps.
[15:39:35] <Brian Trammell_web_499> ek, ralph, should I ask those at the mic?
[15:39:47] <Ralph Giles_web_448> Yes, please.
[15:39:56] <Brian Trammell_web_499> will do, in order. :)
[15:40:19] <Ralph Giles_web_448> :pray:
[15:41:21] <Erik Kline_web_287> brian: if it's context appropriate, thanks.  I'm fairly far behind on SCION knowledge, so don't want to distract this discussion with my current ignorance
[15:45:56] <zulipbot> (Spencer Dawkins) Brian is ALWAYS in queue before me, and that's a good thing.
[15:46:20] <Brian Trammell_web_499> it is indeed context appropriate :)
[15:47:22] <Ralph Giles_web_448> Ok, thanks!
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[15:53:25] <Warren Kumari_web_619> Ooooh! Did Spencer just say that "research (IRSG) does the hard parts, and engineering (IETF) just does the protocol parts"?  :-P
[15:53:35] Erik Kline_web_287 wonders about LISP with more PKI bits sprinkled around...
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[15:56:28] <Warren Kumari_web_619> Yes, but they are just here to snark, they don't *do* anything.
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[15:59:34] <zulipbot> (Spencer Dawkins) Lord Warren -- absolutely not (intentionally). For HIP, it was "what do we know how to do now, and what do we need to invent?"
[15:59:40] <Mirja Kühlewind_web_868> try to figure out if/how existing parts can be re-used or which parts are missing rather than pre-assuming. that and reasoning why other protocols can not be used
[16:00:12] <Mirja Kühlewind_web_868> yes, to Brian!
[16:00:46] <zulipbot> (Spencer Dawkins) Gap analysis is absolutely key to good IETF experiences with new protocol proposals.
[16:01:30] <Mirja Kühlewind_web_868> Again, I know re-using anything existing will not be optimal and for sure less good for some extend but it might still be easier to get work going
[16:02:03] <zulipbot> (Spencer Dawkins) +several to Mirja
[16:04:10] <Mirja Kühlewind_web_868> And regarding panrg: I think documenting deployments (e.g. with gateways) and experience/challenges with that is more interesting than just documenting the scion architecture
[16:05:05] <zulipbot> (Spencer Dawkins) +1 Mirja. It would sure be interesting.
[16:05:26] <Erik Kline_web_287> I'm curious about the difference between "path awareness" and "path awareness dependence" (and which category might better describe SCION)
[16:05:57] <zulipbot> (Spencer Dawkins) So "gap analysis" could be the next draft to PANRG, right?
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[16:07:49] <zulipbot> (Spencer Dawkins) Also +1 Brian on negative results/roads not taken
[16:11:14] <Jelte Jansen_web_921> muted again brian
[16:11:41] <Mirja Kühlewind_web_868> I don't like the term gap analysis because it often just ends up in a lengthly way to say "why we want to use our own new protocol". But if you honestly can identify existing components that you can adopt, potentially extend and re-use that would make starting new work much easier.
[16:12:32] <Mirja Kühlewind_web_868> so it's not about the gaps, it's about the part to re-use and how to extend them
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[16:20:40] <zulipbot> (Spencer Dawkins) (Not just the Scion bunch working on it)
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[16:33:11] <Mirja Kühlewind_web_868> march is asia
[16:33:20] <Mirja Kühlewind_web_868> sf is july
[16:33:37] <Nicola Rustignoli_web_785> Thank you all for the great inputs!
[16:33:46] <Mirja Kühlewind_web_868> Thanks!
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[16:36:29] <Jelte Jansen_web_921> and thank you for presenting this!
[16:36:44] <Colin Perkins_web_348> Thanks everyone – this was a really interesting discussion
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[16:36:51] <Suresh Krishnan_web_819> Thanks all!
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