IETF
panrg
panrg@jabber.ietf.org
Thursday, March 11, 2021< ^ >
tenghardt has set the subject to: Virtual interim June 2020
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[14:31:43] <Brian Trammell_web_510> hi all. please add a MIC: if you'd like me to hop in queue and say something at the mic.
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[14:34:01] <Martin Duke_web_562> should we be seeing slides?
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[14:34:14] <Jake Holland_web_835> brian said he's just talking without slides
[14:34:17] <Jen Linkova_web_976> Not yet, Brian doesn't have any
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[14:35:00] <Martin Duke_web_562> :thumbsup:
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[14:35:38] <Brian Trammell_web_510> i know, not having slides even for a three minute recap of the mailing list is weird, but i like to live dangerously :D
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[14:36:07] <Martin Duke_web_562> sorry, double-dipping so I wasn't getting your audio when I asked
[14:36:41] <Jake Holland_web_835> anything that should be in the notes besides "- definition of path is a good question from list.  discuss where it belongs after path properties."?
[14:36:55] <Brian Trammell_web_510> jake: nope, thanks!
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[14:37:31] <Brian Trammell_web_510> martin: time to reup my meetecho feature request to add hard-panning audio to the configuration
[14:37:53] <Meetecho> Brian: it's on our big TODO list :)
[14:38:03] <Brian Trammell_web_510> \o/
[14:38:05] <Meetecho> Even though you should be able to get it through OS mixing settings already
[14:38:22] <Meetecho> On Linux for instance I can do that easily with PulseAudio (I'm in two rooms roght now)
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[14:38:45] <Martin Duke_web_562> I am not adept enough to listen to two meetings simultaneously -- nothing to do with MeetEcho
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[14:41:48] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_105> Like many in the IETF, Gorry
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[14:42:27] <Brian Trammell_web_510> "episode VI: the return of ECN"
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[14:43:20] <Eric Kinnear_web_874> +1 Gorry, equipment lifetime seems like a reasonable thing to reference, we probably don't need to go into too much detail about update cycles and just leave it at that
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[14:47:31] <Martin Duke_web_562> That's a lie, Brian. You enjoy it MUCH more than the next person
[14:48:20] <Jen Linkova_web_976> We have the mailing list for discussions as well ;)
[14:48:38] <Martin Duke_web_562> Is there a lesson here about caution when repurposing a legacy field?
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[14:49:33] <Brian Trammell_web_510> martin: well... yes.
[14:49:47] <Brian Trammell_web_510> (on both points)
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[14:49:57] <Eric Kinnear_web_874> Martin: Likely, yes, in terms of ossification :-/
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[14:50:38] <Brian Trammell_web_510> kireeti's point is a good one... but I think one of the things that's happening is generation skew
[14:50:46] <Brian Trammell_web_510> in the past, everything lasted twenty years
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[14:52:08] <Martin Duke_web_562> jake +1
[14:52:10] <Brian Trammell_web_510> now you have some networking infra (I'm thinking cloud frontends and stuff like that) that gets more or less daily code pushes, and other networking infra (wifi routers in semipublic spaces in non-IT-focused industries) still lasts two decades
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[14:52:28] <Brian Trammell_web_510> which makes things More Interesting
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[14:58:38] <Spencer Dawkins_web_441> Handing Brian that hat was the best decision I've ever made in PANRG ... Jen, do you need one?
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[15:03:32] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_105> It is not weird to have a dependency on the property draft. One way to get rid of that dependency is copy/past the agreed definition, not define a new one in the questions I-D.
[15:03:47] <Jake Holland_web_835> Spencer, I got distracted, what was your last remark in "note summary" form?
[15:04:11] <Brian Trammell_web_510> we can hear you
[15:04:13] <Ana Custura_web_120> we can hear you
[15:04:16] <Jen Linkova_web_976> We can hear your
[15:04:16] <Theresa Enghardt_web_152> Med's solution is fine with me, too. And the questions draft doesn't actually ask "What are paths?", only about path properties :)
[15:04:28] <Spencer Dawkins_web_441> We can hear you
[15:04:31] <Theresa Enghardt_web_152> and the path properties draft answers both
[15:04:49] <Brian Trammell_web_510> go ahead and start
[15:04:58] <Brian Trammell_web_510> Med: that's the way to go
[15:05:01] <Jen Linkova_web_976> Maybe you can re-join and test the audio?
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[15:05:17] <Jen Linkova_web_976> Tell me when to go for the next slide
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[15:05:37] <Spencer Dawkins_web_441> @Jake - just that what-not-to-do no longer has a normative reference to the definition of "path" in Theresa's draft
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[15:07:10] <Brian Trammell_web_510> Med: that's probably the way to go, with a slightly less detailed abstract definition than what's in the path properties draft (because it's defined to be (1) abstract and (2) integrated with the rest of the terminology in that docu)). I'll propose something and send it to the list...
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[15:10:21] <Brian Trammell_web_510> "available time" seems like it'd be appropriate for any DTN, not just for space
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[15:10:52] <Brian Trammell_web_510> (that's a good test for "path properties" -- does it apply to DTN in the general case?
[15:11:18] <Jen Linkova_web_976> Let's discuss in the mailing list
[15:11:21] <Jen Linkova_web_976> Thanks!
[15:12:02] <Zheng Shaowen_web_656> Yes,thanks
[15:12:39] <Theresa Enghardt_web_152> Thanks Zheng, interesting work! Will read your draft and comment
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[15:16:58] <Spencer Dawkins_web_441> @Brian, I agree about DTN. I wish we'd had the last hour of TSVAREA to talk about that (and Shaowen's presentation more broadly)
[15:17:18] <Spencer Dawkins_web_441> Interim before IETF 111? :grinning:
[15:18:08] <Brian Trammell_web_510> that seems like a reasonable idea.
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[15:18:46] <Spencer Dawkins_web_441> @Brian - I may blow that up with my next presentation, of course ...
[15:19:12] <Brian Trammell_web_510> :D
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[15:23:20] <Jake Holland_web_835> so in terms of path awareness, this is for authenticating a host as the source of packets?
[15:23:47] <Jake Holland_web_835> in a way the path can verify?  not quite sure i grasped it properly
[15:24:36] <Brian Trammell_web_510> that's my understanding... my next question would also be about "how to use DRkey to authenticate properties"
[15:25:04] <Markus Legner_web_810> Yes, authenticating the source of packets would be the main application.
[15:25:27] <Jake Holland_web_835> sure, maybe.  not sure it's needed if you just use tls, but maybe if you don't do a direct connection to a service that could be useful too.
[15:25:39] <Markus Legner_web_810> This could be done both between the communication endpoints but also for each AS- or router-level hop.
[15:25:40] <Jake Holland_web_835> but i think you'd have more options that way :)
[15:26:16] <Markus Legner_web_810> One advantage of using DRKey is that it is possible to authenticate packets with only symmetric cryptography without requiring an initial handshake.
[15:26:41] <Brian Trammell_web_510> so source authentication is a useful first step, property authentication is the next step
[15:26:55] <Brian Trammell_web_510> iow what spencer is starting to say right now
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[15:29:29] <Brian Trammell_web_510> yay i get to schedule an interim :D
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[15:30:43] <Jake Holland_web_835> what not to do: assume 1 hour is enough for discussion?
[15:31:15] <Spencer Dawkins_web_441> I didn't look at this presentation before I sent Jen slides. Boy, this looks familiar (in a good way).
[15:31:41] <Brian Trammell_web_510> jake: interims can be scheduled with less time pressure
[15:31:45] <Brian Trammell_web_510> so yes
[15:31:48] <Brian Trammell_web_510> we will not do that
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[15:32:30] <Spencer Dawkins_web_441> Also assume that Spencer can't generate long mike lines on Meetecho :sweat_smile:
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[15:34:24] <Theresa Enghardt_web_152> I got used to waking up early by now though :)
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