[00:17:34] Dan York joins the room [07:54:49] victor.pascual joins the room [07:56:20] xavi.mila joins the room [08:00:27] ekr@ecotroph.net joins the room [08:00:41] Dan, do you hear this ringing again [08:03:09] Cullen Jennings joins the room [08:04:33] AdamUzelac joins the room [08:04:46] jack joins the room [08:05:02] AdamUzelac leaves the room [08:05:49] Cullen Jennings leaves the room [08:06:40] Cullen Jennings joins the room [08:06:41] jinhong joins the room [08:07:04] CMW5S41 joins the room [08:07:47] AdamUzelac joins the room [08:08:13] hello - good morning [08:08:35] magnus joins the room [08:08:38] AdamUzelac going to be jabber scribe (will try to do my best) [08:10:11] Good morning. [08:11:30] if there are issues with jabber, you can ping me via skype (voiploser) [08:11:38] just fyi [08:12:20] AdamUzelac: Thanks for scribing. [08:13:08] ekr@ecotroph.net: Yes, I'm still getting that high-pitched whine. [08:13:21] Elena joins the room [08:13:30] Obviously Joel didn't get a chance to fix the box. [08:17:09] This is a different box, I think [08:17:50] I don't know who that is speaking now [08:17:54] victor.pascual leaves the room [08:18:06] That was Bruce Davie [08:18:17] Thanks [08:18:41] gaia joins the room [08:18:43] thanks cullen [08:19:15] ted hardie [08:19:19] at the mic [08:19:35] henning in queue [08:20:04] persist joins the room [08:22:19] ted back in queue [08:22:29] ted now speaking [08:22:49] tomkri joins the room [08:23:37] Jonathon next, then Christer (but Brian Rosen asked for cut-off after Jonathon) [08:23:58] xiaohunhun joins the room [08:24:04] xiaohunhun leaves the room [08:24:56] AdamUzelac: As a remote participant, the two things I find most helpful from a Jabber scribe (outside of relaying questions) are: 1) indicating when the presenter has switched to another slide. Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes it's not, so something like "slide 4", etc. is very helpful.; and 2) clueing us in to who is in the mic line (exactly like you're doing.) [08:25:14] eburger joins the room [08:25:16] So what you're doing is fine right now. [08:25:24] (and thanks!) [08:25:27] roger that - thanks for the feedback [08:25:54] That was ALbert Tan speaking [08:26:09] Ted at mic now [08:26:40] thanks again Cullen [08:27:11] yangjung joins the room [08:29:17] yangjung leaves the room [08:29:20] more hums for MUST for ICE-lite [08:29:31] next slide - titled Error Codes [08:30:03] Cullen at the mic, Henning in queue [08:30:28] eburger leaves the room [08:30:56] Please relay: the current document allows *three* things: [08:30:59] (1) a code [08:31:08] tomkri leaves the room [08:31:11] (2) a reason_phrase with a suggestion that it be some fixed string (SHOULD) [08:31:19] (3) an opaque "error_info" payload [08:31:36] Can people be clear about what they want here. [08:31:58] victor.pascual joins the room [08:32:08] I note that the current protocol uses the error_info to return errors *used by the protocol* [08:32:13] sal joins the room [08:32:56] ldondeti joins the room [08:33:04] Dean Willis joins the room [08:34:24] missed the name (sorry) [08:34:58] henning and David Bryan in mic queue [08:35:37] vidya joins the room [08:37:06] Note that if we want a structured error, we can explicitly structure it, i.e., have two values. There's no need to use a digit convention [08:38:21] next slide [08:38:30] titled Bootstrap Peers [08:39:21] spencer dawkins [08:39:25] Wow... the whine just stopped in the audio. ekr@ecotroph.net: do you still hear the whine? [08:39:39] sal leaves the room: Logged out [08:40:11] No. I just realized that the drilling feeling in my head was gone [08:40:19] :-) [08:40:23] That's enormously better [08:40:45] Yep! [08:41:04] henning at the mic, Brian Rosen in the queue (not as WG chair) [08:41:44] Philip Matthews joins the room [08:41:48] eburger joins the room [08:42:12] salvatore loreto joins the room [08:43:20] ted hardie at one mic, brian rosen at the other [08:43:30] cullen in queue [08:45:05] (Side note not for relaying to mic: Wow! Henning's right about the limbo status of mDNS... it went through *47* drafts before popping out as Informational RFC 4795: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnsext-mdns-47 ) [08:45:15] next slide - titled Bootstrap servers [08:46:00] dan - thanks for letting me know that you didn't need mic relay (everything here from remote folks I assume should be relayed) [08:46:37] dean willis at mic [08:46:38] Elena leaves the room [08:46:57] Actually, I'm remote w/o audio, so I'd appreciate the relay so I know when I need to rush back... (in MORG BOF) [08:47:33] next slide - DHT Scalability [08:47:51] magnus leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [08:47:55] eburger leaves the room [08:47:56] magnus joins the room [08:48:07] jack leaves the room [08:48:18] eburger joins the room [08:49:26] eburger: Well, have fun over there in IMAP-land. :-) [08:49:47] gonzalo at mic [08:49:48] Someone has to do it O:-) [08:49:59] henning in queue [08:51:00] on the topic of DHT Scalability - there's not enough information present to determine the default DHT, so no proposal to ask for consensus on. - need to study more. [08:51:15] I completely missed the name (sorry) [08:51:33] magnus leaves the room [08:51:35] eburger leaves the room [08:51:46] next slide - SIP Tunnel [08:51:59] eburger joins the room [08:53:02] alan johnston at mic [08:53:17] Adam Roach at mic [08:53:43] Alan back at mic [08:54:08] Peny joins the room [08:54:17] Jonathon at mic [08:54:36] alan [08:55:36] Henning at the mic [08:56:20] magnus joins the room [08:56:22] I don't understand how an extension would work here. [08:56:48] We're going to have to also invent "does not supported", I guess [08:57:10] magnus leaves the room [08:57:15] eburger leaves the room [08:57:30] eburger joins the room [08:58:16] Jack joins the room [08:58:23] The SIP usage [08:59:18] My point here is that you're going to send your SIP message in a TUNNEL, but you're not going to know if the recipient supports it. And so you'll take a RT through the overlay to find out that they don't. That's not that great... [08:59:41] ok - will relay [09:00:25] Cullen Jennings leaves the room [09:00:29] thx [09:00:33] Cullen Jennings joins the room [09:00:34] np [09:01:59] henning at mic (a fairly known voice) [09:03:14] jonathon at the mic [09:03:30] spencer in queue [09:03:46] he had no comment [09:04:42] need use cases on SIP Tunnel discussion - please send to list - letting it go for now [09:04:56] next slide - Methods [09:05:11] vidya leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [09:05:25] David Bryan at mic as individual [09:07:28] henning [09:09:03] missed the name again (sorry) [09:09:11] Song Haiban from Huawei [09:09:33] good eyesight! ;) [09:09:48] next slide - Service Discovery [09:09:55] I've interacted with Song before so I knew his voice. [09:10:21] jinhong leaves the room: Computer went to sleep [09:10:27] must be pretty good audio for you folks (now without whining) [09:10:41] yep, audio's great. [09:11:17] Adam Roach at mic [09:11:43] cullen at mic [09:12:06] brian rosen in queue as individual [09:15:44] didn't catch the name again [09:16:26] Jiang XingFeng (have also worked with him) [09:17:16] Dean Willis leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [09:17:16] Dean Willis joins the room [09:17:32] AdamUzelac leaves the room [09:17:48] AdamUzelac joins the room [09:18:41] network issues [09:18:45] back now [09:18:47] I think [09:18:50] Ted at mic [09:19:43] My question - the existing draft provides service discovery for TURN servers - but what about other services such as, say, voicemail servers or PSTN gateways? (I agree with need for service discovery algorithm in the draft.) [09:20:37] henning at mic - I (dan) is next [09:21:32] Dan: we deliberately didn't add a generic algorith, because we weren't confident it would work in a generic case [09:22:00] [No need to forward that, Adam] [09:22:05] k [09:22:37] next slide - Other Open Issues [09:23:01] Aw, shucks... you could have had EKR and I arguing at the mic... ;-) [09:23:10] andrewfuller joins the room [09:23:31] Thanks for the relay [09:23:51] 'tis me job [09:24:06] spencer at mic [09:24:27] Jiang XingFeng in queue [09:24:36] AdamUzelac learning names [09:24:44] :) [09:25:17] EKR: Thanks for the info re: motivation. In reading the draft and reading list traffic, it seemed strange to me that there was no service discovery. [09:26:04] AdamUzelac: I was a frequent Jabber scribe at IETF 70 and IETF 71 and yes, you are definitely forced to learn names. :-) [09:27:32] hum being asked if RELOAD should be adopted as a WG item [09:27:36] ted at mic [09:28:11] Dan York laughs... [09:28:18] jonathon at mic [09:28:38] victor.pascual leaves the room [09:29:07] spencer at other mic (ted speaking now) [09:30:11] ldondeti leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [09:30:19] keith drage at mic [09:30:26] Dean Willis leaves the room [09:30:45] spencer at mic [09:31:47] next presenatation - P2PSIP Concepts - David Bryan [09:31:54] nsko joins the room [09:32:11] slide titled Changes From -01 to -02 [09:33:40] next slide - titled Proposed Changes for -03 [09:35:01] next slide - same title [09:35:51] henning at mic [09:36:39] weiyx joins the room [09:36:53] spencer in queue [09:38:25] persist leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [09:38:26] persist joins the room [09:41:35] next slide - same title (3rd in the series with the same title) [09:42:44] presentation concluded [09:43:15] next presentation (Ted Hardie) - Overlay Pointers [09:44:23] technical difficulties with the Laptop to bring up the presentation [09:45:52] Anyone know where Ted's presentation can be found online? [09:45:53] slides are up - we are on the slide titled P2P POINTERS [09:46:01] So I guess these slides NOT available for remote participants? [09:46:42] It's still not on https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/72/materials.html [09:47:29] brought up from Brian's email (hence the difficulties) [09:47:43] Peny leaves the room [09:48:55] CMW5S41 leaves the room [09:49:42] Okay... I'm looking at http://tools.ietf.org/rfcmarkup?doc=draft-hardie-p2psip-p2p-pointers to try to follow along. [09:50:06] cullen and bruce in queue at mic [09:53:53] nils joins the room [09:54:51] eburger leaves the room [09:55:04] eburger joins the room [09:57:13] henning in queue at mic [09:57:23] ted responding to cullen's comments now [09:57:30] Dan York notes how frustrating it is to hear conversations involving "but if you go to the next slide" when no slides are available for remote participants (not for relaying... just venting in the chat room) [09:57:39] :-) [09:58:11] Indeed [09:58:25] bruce at the mic now [10:00:00] henning at mic [10:00:04] spencer in queue [10:00:15] Jack leaves the room [10:00:18] eburger leaves the room [10:00:28] saverio.niccolini joins the room [10:00:50] eburger joins the room [10:01:41] spencer takes himself out of queue [10:02:35] Dean Willis joins the room [10:02:39] persist leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [10:02:43] nsko leaves the room [10:02:47] Dean Willis leaves the room [10:02:50] Question: How do you see this working for a user? A user sees a URI in an email or on a web page ("Join our chat here!"), clicks on it, and then their P2PSIP client launches and joins the overlay? I'd like to see some more discussion in the draft. [10:02:54] Ah [10:03:04] Ted's answering my question now. [10:04:57] Jiang XingFeng up next with Discussion on Routing Modes [10:05:14] slide titled - Routing Modes [10:05:58] next slide - titled Why Relay Peer and Direct Response? [10:06:48] next slide - Where is Relay/Direct Response Helpful? [10:08:16] next slide - How Relay Peer Works - 1 [10:08:33] persist joins the room [10:09:38] next slide - How Relay Peer Works - 2 [10:10:22] next slides - Concerns - Relay Peer [10:12:47] next slide - Concerns - Dos Attack [10:13:32] next slide - Next Step [10:13:48] bruce at mic [10:15:23] AdamUzelac leaves the room [10:15:24] eburger leaves the room [10:15:43] eburger joins the room [10:16:21] AdamUzelac joins the room [10:16:51] ted at mic now [10:16:57] This is Ted, right? [10:17:02] :-) [10:17:19] henning spoke right before him [10:17:50] spencer at mic now [10:18:06] gaia leaves the room [10:18:27] david bryan (as individual, cullen, bruce, henning all in queue [10:18:43] AdamUzelac leaves the room [10:18:51] CMW5S41 joins the room [10:20:02] eburger leaves the room [10:20:05] AdamUzelac joins the room [10:20:21] sorry folks - network issues here [10:20:26] too many geeks in one place [10:20:29] :) [10:20:36] cullen and ted at one mic [10:20:45] bruce and henning at the other [10:20:58] Use the mike [10:21:03] it's a mic cage-match x2 [10:21:10] :-) [10:21:40] saverio.niccolini leaves the room [10:22:14] weiyx leaves the room: offline [10:23:06] henning is only one to kill [10:23:35] hang-on and keep going wins the hum (show of hands actually) [10:23:47] Come on, we should not kill Henning :-) [10:24:05] Keep-Alive [10:24:09] Song Haiban with the final presentation [10:24:42] sorry - Song Haibin (initially misspelled) [10:24:53] P2PSIP diagnostics [10:25:11] slide titled Diagnostic Scenarios [10:26:08] next slide - Echo [10:27:18] lminiero joins the room [10:27:22] persist leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [10:27:23] next slide - Echo (Cont.) [10:27:57] persist joins the room [10:28:17] next slide - Ping Mode [10:28:32] next slide - Traceroute Mode [10:29:19] salvatore loreto leaves the room [10:29:51] xavi.mila leaves the room [10:30:21] Dan York raises his hand (has read the draft) [10:30:35] noted [10:30:53] lminiero leaves the room [10:31:01] :-) [10:31:11] CMW5S41 leaves the room [10:31:13] Adam - thanks for all your scribing. [10:31:13] Cullen Jennings leaves the room [10:31:20] great job [10:31:27] Philip Matthews leaves the room [10:31:34] Dan York leaves the room [10:31:34] ekr - I also hate bathroom doors at airports! [10:31:38] persist leaves the room [10:31:40] ;) [10:31:48] ttfn folks [10:32:20] AdamUzelac leaves the room [10:32:32] andrewfuller leaves the room [10:33:44] nils leaves the room [10:33:59] ekr@ecotroph.net leaves the room [10:59:23] jiangxingfeng joins the room [10:59:43] jiangxingfeng leaves the room [11:05:42] spencerdawkins joins the room [11:05:50] spencerdawkins leaves the room [13:52:02] Peny joins the room [13:57:22] Peny leaves the room