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[22:23:34] <Dave Thaler> i think brian's title is shown backwards "Renumbering still needs work" not "Renumbering still works"...
[22:23:41] <Dave Thaler> parity error :0
[22:24:27] <Mat Ford> renumbering may both 'work' and 'need work' though, right
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[22:25:05] <Dave Thaler> http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/09mar/slides/opsarea-1.pdf
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[22:26:34] <joelja> brian - like it or not site numbering is needed sometimes
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[22:31:45] <bert> sorry for being late, but I had promised to be jabber scribe.
[22:31:47] <bert> starting now
[22:32:05] <dromasca> it's ok - no questions until now - i think
[22:32:17] <bert> I assume everyone is on the audio channel, so I won't state all the spoken words
[22:32:29] <dromasca> anybody remote? can you confirm audio works?
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[22:32:32] <bert> we're on slide 7 of the talk from Brian Carpentrer
[22:32:51] <IHEP-CC-FA5B7F24F3> it works for me
[22:33:08] <dromasca> great - you have a cybernetic nicname
[22:34:15] <bert> slide 8.. But there is a basic design flaw
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[22:35:43] <bert> slide 10: host issues
[22:37:38] <mohsen> sorry missed the URL of slides (if any)
[22:37:53] <bert> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09mar/slides/opsarea-1.pdf
[22:37:58] <mohsen> thx
[22:38:23] <bert> slide 10: ROuter issues
[22:38:42] <bert> slide 11 it is (router issues)
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[22:39:32] <bert> slide 12 NAT state issues
[22:39:59] <bert> slide 13 Mobility issues
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[22:40:39] <bert> slide 14: multicast issues
[22:41:26] <bert> slide 15: management issues (1)
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[22:42:55] <bert> slide 16: management issues (2)
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[22:43:43] <bert> slide 17: Security issues
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[22:45:35] <jariarkko> which presentation are we on?
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[22:45:53] <Mat Ford> renumbering needs work - brian carpenter
[22:46:11] <jariarkko> tnx
[22:46:18] <bert> slide 19: Gap analysis (preliminary) (1)
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[22:47:58] <bert> slide 20: Gap analysis (preliminary) (2)
[22:48:26] bert has set the subject to: OPS-AREA Open meeting IETF74
[22:48:38] <bert> Don't why that subject was set to ietf72?
[22:48:59] <bert> slide 21 : Gap analysis (preliminary) (3)
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[22:50:06] <bert> slide 22: Gap analysis (preliminary) (4)
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[22:50:41] <bert> slide 23: input requested
[22:58:12] <bert> next topic: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09mar/slides/opsarea-3.pdf
[22:58:41] <bert> By Benoit Claise
[22:58:51] <bert> slide 1 title slide
[22:59:00] <bert> slide 2 background ...
[23:01:36] <bert> slide 3: introduction
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[23:02:27] <bert> slide 4: Business Case for Structured Data
[23:05:33] <bert> slide 5: examples
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[23:07:00] <bert> slide 6: New Abstract Data Types....Element: BasicList
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[23:08:41] <bert> slide 7: subTemplateList
[23:09:23] <bert> slide 8: subTemplateMultiList
[23:10:00] <bert> slide 9: what is the next step for this draft
[23:11:02] <bert> slide 10: observation and conclusion
[23:15:37] <jariarkko> still on Benoit's preso?
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[23:15:54] <dromasca> almost done
[23:16:00] <jariarkko> coming over soon
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[23:18:21] <pjaitken> Who asked the question?
[23:19:01] <Margaret Wasserman> I don't know.
[23:19:24] <Margaret Wasserman> I think Rahul Agarawal?
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[23:19:32] <dromasca> yes
[23:23:20] <bert> next topic: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/09mar/slides/opsarea-2.ppt
[23:23:46] <bert> title slide
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[23:24:13] <bert> slide 2: structure ...
[23:24:35] <bert> slide 3: The Purpose
[23:25:01] <bert> slide 4: prerequisite
[23:25:30] <bert> slide 5: NAT444 model
[23:26:32] <bert> slide 6: some options
[23:27:04] <bert> slide 7: Pros of NAT4444
[23:27:28] <bert> tstill on slide 6 though
[23:28:02] <bert> slide 7 now
[23:29:50] <bert> slide 8: Cons of NAT444
[23:30:28] <bert> slide 9, what is  Shared ISP address
[23:31:27] <bert> slide 10: Size of Shared Address
[23:31:33] <Dave Thaler> I just now noticed his slide numbers are IPv6 addresses
[23:31:52] <Margaret Wasserman> Hey, that's cute.
[23:31:53] <dromasca> :-)
[23:31:58] <bert> slide 11: we have 2 years
[23:32:07] <bert> too many numbers to type for me
[23:32:27] <Margaret Wasserman> He did a really good job on these slides, IMO.
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[23:33:13] <bert> slide 12:  Class-E issue
[23:34:18] <bert> slide 13: Class-E routing issue
[23:35:41] <bert> slide 14: Private Address issue
[23:38:08] <Dave Thaler> don't need to type the whole slide number address as long as we create DNS records for slide-12.opsarea.meeting.ietf.org  etc ;-)
[23:41:56] <Barbara Stark> Room: Our remote device management servers require each managed device to have a unique address.
[23:42:26] <Dave Thaler> sure, the question here is, in part, why not use net-10
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[23:42:38] <Barbara Stark> Room: Therefore, we need to put our management server on the "private" side of the LSN.
[23:43:21] <Mat Ford> right but end-user clients aren't connecting to the management server directly
[23:43:30] <Barbara Stark> Room: net-10 is fallback solution, but possibility exists of overla with some LAN numbering.
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[23:46:08] <Dave Thaler> the question in INTAREA on this topic is... if you're an ISP doing NAT444, can't you just tell your customers not to use net-10 inside the end sites?  almost all home routers today use 192.168
[23:46:22] <Dave Thaler> er from the INTAREA meeting right before this meeting
[23:47:37] <Mat Ford> these points were all made the first time this was presented - i'm not sure this has moved anywhere further
[23:48:02] <Dave Thaler> yep
[23:48:25] <Andrew Sullivan> I have actually experienced an ISP saying, "Never use this block"
[23:48:37] <Margaret Wasserman> True, but their presentation doesn't answer the concerns that were raised, nor does the draft.
[23:48:51] <Mat Ford> @andrew - heh, isn't that like a red-rag to a bull ;)
[23:49:08] <Andrew Sullivan> Well, I thought it was pretty interesting, anyway
[23:49:16] <Margaret Wasserman> Net 10 is a mess, and we have put a lot of special code, route filters and other configuration all sorts of places to make sure it doesn't bite us.  We would have to do the same for net11.
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[23:49:22] <Andrew Sullivan> They put it in their ToS
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[23:53:12] <bert> slide 15: summary
[23:56:22] <Barbara Stark> Room: Yes, we would like this space. Mark is right that there was support from service providers at Broadband Forum.
[23:56:44] <Barbara Stark> Is anybody able to provide voice to people on jabber?