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[12:31:58] <Joe Touch> STD is an unfortunate acronym ;-)
[12:32:34] <hta> good reason to retire it.
[12:32:53] <Bill> indeed
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[12:45:36] <hta> isn't this a nit?
[12:51:25] <falk> a much smaller, less interesting job if you olnly limit it to STDs
[12:51:34] <falk> seems like a no brainer to me
[12:51:49] <hta> STDs are boring.....
[12:53:14] <falk> right - we're having an agreement
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[13:03:11] <hartmans> This seems all very complicated
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[13:03:43] <hta> trying to make sense of the crumbs of information we leave around from our standards process now is complicated too.
[13:03:44] <falk> it's intended to be flexible
[13:09:24] <hartmans> I'm not sure you want this flexibility
[13:09:27] <Joe Touch> now sentences are normative? I thought only references were normative. and I have a different def than many (mine's [perhaps being silly] from Strunk/White and other editorial guides...
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[13:20:34] <hta> is that a new version of rathole? "lawyerhole"?
[13:21:28] <falk> lawyerlair (think sharp teeth)
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[13:28:01] <hartmans> Strongly object to RFC foo minus bar as the standard
[13:28:09] <hartmans> I think we'll get as confusing as case law
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[13:28:59] <hta> we've had several examples of docs having stuff cut out at the proposed/draft transition. sometimes with results that look confusing.
[13:29:13] <hta> so it's not a new problem that we confuse people by removing features.
[13:29:55] <hartmans> Removing stuff from proposed-> draft is fine
[13:30:02] <hartmans> You should republish the doc though.
[13:31:10] <hartmans> Imagine the following: To understand IPSec, read 2401-2409, these five other RFCs, remove RFC 2401 section 3.4.5.6, 2406 section 4.3, section 8.9 of 2409 and section 7 of rfc 2407.
[13:43:10] <falk> it's too hot in here
[13:43:22] <falk> did he mention the xml one?
[13:43:25] <hta> yes.
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[14:03:03] <falk> one possible bad outcome is that megaco will go to industry consortia and won't be available for free to get IESG disclaimers
[14:03:24] <hta> why is that bad?
[14:03:44] <falk> well, we don't love the ITU but we like to see their specs
[14:03:52] <falk> but we can't
[14:04:11] <hta> the 3 first shots are free........ then you're hooked :-)
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