[00:23:49] Pete McCann joins the room
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[00:50:37] bortzmeyer joins the room
[00:50:53] <bortzmeyer> Ni hao
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[01:01:56] pk [jabber scribe] joins the room
[01:02:31] pk [jabber scribe] has set the subject to: NBS BoF in garden ballroom 3
[01:02:45] Javier Ubillos joins the room
[01:02:49] <pk [jabber scribe]> exploration BoF, not talking about how to come to WG
[01:03:13] <pk [jabber scribe]> presenters: do adhere to the schedule!
[01:03:55] <pk [jabber scribe]> anybody on audio? soundcheck?
[01:04:09] <Martin Stiemerling> checking..
[01:04:11] <Pete McCann> It's coming through fine.
[01:04:12] alexmcmahon joins the room
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[01:04:18] <pk [jabber scribe]> tnx
[01:04:26] <Pete McCann> Christian is a little too close to the mic.
[01:04:29] glen leaves the room
[01:04:42] <pk [jabber scribe]> first slide
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[01:05:18] <Dave Thaler> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/79/slides/nbs-6.pdf
[01:05:28] <pk [jabber scribe]> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/79/slides/nbs-6.pdf, slide 2
[01:06:28] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 3, agenda OK?
[01:06:29] wmhaddad joins the room
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[01:06:57] <Dave Thaler> hmm these slides are not nbs-6, nbs-6 is the note well and logistics
[01:07:15] <pk [jabber scribe]> sorry, checking and downloading
[01:07:39] <Dave Thaler> it's actually nbs-7
[01:07:44] <Dave Thaler> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/79/slides/nbs-7.pdf
[01:08:23] <pk [jabber scribe]> tnx, it's "overviwe"
[01:08:38] <pk [jabber scribe]> now slide with hourglass
[01:08:53] jounkorh joins the room
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[01:09:50] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 4 of 5 in nbs-7.pdf
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[01:12:35] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 5/5
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[01:14:44] <pk [jabber scribe]> Dave Thaler nbs-4.pdf, slide 2
[01:15:19] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 3/8
[01:17:35] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 4/8, host mobility
[01:20:36] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 5/8, mobility 2
[01:22:38] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 6/8
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[01:23:13] <pk [jabber scribe]> unknown@mic: user experience benefit?
[01:23:32] <bortzmeyer> Why a cement pillar? Is cement specially hostile to radio waves?
[01:24:08] <pk [jabber scribe]> back to slide 6/8
[01:26:07] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 7/8
[01:27:12] <pk [jabber scribe]> last slide (8/8)
[01:27:43] ꈲ leaves the room
[01:29:08] <pk [jabber scribe]> end of presentation
[01:29:14] <pk [jabber scribe]> no Q/A
[01:29:41] <pk [jabber scribe]> Stuart Cheshire next
[01:30:43] Dave Thaler leaves the room
[01:30:45] Dave Thaler joins the room
[01:30:50] <pk [jabber scribe]> cannot find slides, moment
[01:31:42] <Dave Thaler> btw the "unknown@mic: user experience benefit?" was David Harrington (AD)
[01:32:15] <Pete McCann> I'm unhappy about the unavailability of slides.
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[01:32:59] <Dave Thaler> chairs will post them now
[01:33:11] ꈲ joins the room
[01:33:16] <Martin Stiemerling> slides being uploaded
[01:33:26] <pk [jabber scribe]> [some trouble with projector]
[01:33:51] <Dave Thaler> they're trying to either increase the brightness (or decrease the illumination in the room)
[01:34:37] <pk [jabber scribe]> likely to come up as http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/79/slides/nbs-8.pdf
[01:35:23] <wmhaddad> not reachable...
[01:35:28] mstiemerling joins the room
[01:35:29] <Javier Ubillos> Not yet uploaded...
[01:35:39] jounkorh leaves the room
[01:35:42] <pk [jabber scribe]> do AAAA and A DNS queries in parallel ...
[01:35:51] <Javier Ubillos> The short version of the current slides is that both A & AAAA records are resolved in paralell.
[01:36:03] Martin Stiemerling leaves the room
[01:36:06] mstiemerling leaves the room
[01:36:23] <pk [jabber scribe]> and that both responses need to be available to make the decision which way to go
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[01:36:42] <pk [jabber scribe]> one may be cached, the other not (or not exist)
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[01:37:25] <Martin Stiemerling> for the slides: they came very,very late and the datatracker is now taking 5 mins + to upload them. SORRY for this
[01:38:53] <pk [jabber scribe]> query for AAAA only if machine has routable v6 address (solution only for !ipv6)
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[01:39:39] <Martin Stiemerling> here are the slides: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/79/slides/nbs-8.pdf
[01:39:45] <pk [jabber scribe]> decouple data paths
[01:39:47] <Pete McCann> Got them, thanks.
[01:40:58] <Javier Ubillos> I don't know the slide number, but the title of the current slide is "Apple Core Foundation APIs".
[01:42:00] <Javier Ubillos> Slide: "summary"
[01:42:17] <pk [jabber scribe]> probably last slide, download not yet complete ...
[01:42:29] <Javier Ubillos> 0ver 10 mins for me (on the IETF network :)
[01:42:56] <Martin Stiemerling> the wireless is not really good right now...
[01:43:02] <pk [jabber scribe]> end of presentations, Q/A
[01:43:16] <pk [jabber scribe]> next speaker: Javier Ubillos
[01:43:19] samante leaves the room
[01:43:20] <pk [jabber scribe]> nbs-3.pdf
[01:44:13] <pk [jabber scribe]> title: slide 1/22
[01:44:32] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 2/22
[01:44:47] <Dave Thaler> link is http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/79/slides/nbs-3.pdf
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[01:45:05] jelte joins the room
[01:45:34] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 3/22
[01:45:37] <pk [jabber scribe]> goals
[01:46:45] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 4/22: constraints
[01:47:28] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 5/22: approach
[01:48:39] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 6/22: how is this different
[01:49:38] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 7/22: Uni-/Bi-lateral
[01:50:02] <pk [jabber scribe]> {audio experience in room is poor due to air condition, what's the outside quality?}
[01:50:15] <Pete McCann> I'm getting a lot of clipping.
[01:50:19] wolfgang.beck01 joins the room
[01:51:07] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 8/22: time line example
[01:51:13] Colman Ho leaves the room
[01:51:29] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 9/22 overview; slide 10/22
[01:52:10] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 11/22, api status
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[01:52:52] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 12
[01:53:54] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 13/22
[01:54:16] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 14/22
[01:55:05] <tsavo_work@jabber.org/Meebo> So this proposal proposes using IP extension headers? Will those really get through the middleboxes (firewalls)?
[01:55:06] becarpenter leaves the room
[01:55:09] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 15/22, name shim6 viz
[01:55:14] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 16/22
[01:56:00] <pk [jabber scribe]> {for relay requests pls use "mic:" prefix or similar}
[01:56:05] Colman Ho joins the room
[01:57:43] <tsavo_work@jabber.org/Meebo> Thanks!
[01:58:08] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 17/22
[01:58:17] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 18/22
[01:59:37] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 19
[02:00:01] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 20
[02:01:22] samante leaves the room
[02:01:41] <pk [jabber scribe]> teemu @mic: 
[02:01:57] <pk [jabber scribe]> back to slide 10
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[02:02:13] Shane Amante is now known as samante
[02:02:13] samante is now known as Shane Amante
[02:02:40] Shane Amante is now known as samante
[02:03:34] samante is now known as Shane Amante
[02:03:42] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 20 again
[02:04:01] <pk [jabber scribe]> {sorry, audio too poor}
[02:04:54] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 21
[02:05:01] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 22, end of presentation, Q/A
[02:05:06] <pk [jabber scribe]> dave thaler @mic
[02:05:22] <pk [jabber scribe]> why ip addresses in ip6.arpa format?
[02:05:29] <pk [jabber scribe]> JU: easy way to do it
[02:05:56] <pk [jabber scribe]> JU: no problem changing that
[02:06:13] <pk [jabber scribe]> Erik Nordmark: when combining with shim6, uid variable length string
[02:06:13] wolfgang.beck01 leaves the room
[02:06:38] <pk [jabber scribe]> JU: md5 hash of name used as an IP address
[02:07:23] <pk [jabber scribe]> next: zhongxing ming
[02:07:40] <pk [jabber scribe]> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/79/slides/nbs-2.pdf
[02:07:52] Javier Ubillos leaves the room
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[02:08:23] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 2/3
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[02:09:35] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 3/3
[02:10:14] Javier Ubillos joins the room
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[02:12:25] <pk [jabber scribe]> EoP, Q/A
[02:13:12] <pk [jabber scribe]> next: Saleem Bhatti, DNS Caching: runing on zero
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[02:13:58] <pk [jabber scribe]> slides?
[02:15:27] <Javier Ubillos> This is a short notice presentation, I'll try to get them for you.
[02:15:33] <pk [jabber scribe]> may try http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog50/presentations/Tuesday/NANOG50.Talk64.bhatti-nanog50_dns.pdf
[02:15:34] <martin.stiemerling> being uploaded
[02:15:48] <martin.stiemerling> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/79/slides/nbs-9.pdf
[02:15:54] <martin.stiemerling> same here: late.
[02:16:14] <pk [jabber scribe]> future URL http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/79/slides/nbs-9.pdf
[02:16:22] <pk [jabber scribe]> oops, sorry for dup
[02:16:24] <Javier Ubillos> :) I was too slow :)
[02:16:44] <martin.stiemerling> this was only because the datatracker and the net are fast again :)
[02:17:48] <pk [jabber scribe]> download not yet complete ... basic dataset meta-data
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[02:18:49] <pk [jabber scribe]> that's slide 9/16
[02:18:54] jelte leaves the room
[02:19:25] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 7
[02:20:41] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 11
[02:21:05] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 12
[02:21:26] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 13
[02:21:49] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 14
[02:22:28] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 15 skipprd, 16
[02:22:38] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 17
[02:23:03] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 18
[02:23:37] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 19/19, EoP, Q/A
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[02:23:37] samante is now known as Shane Amante
[02:24:01] <pk [jabber scribe]> toerless@mic: how can you conclude frequent access is practical?
[02:25:08] <pk [jabber scribe]> aaron falk: server centric analysis
[02:25:21] <pk [jabber scribe]> client may have different experience, any analysis on that?
[02:25:33] <pk [jabber scribe]> 1s TTL vs 0s TTL
[02:26:14] <pk [jabber scribe]> dave thaler: did you change the RDATA?
[02:26:53] <pk [jabber scribe]> no caching in recursive resolvers larger than ttl?
[02:27:50] <pk [jabber scribe]> what workload did the clients perform?
[02:28:18] <pk [jabber scribe]> how much was intra site destinations?
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[02:28:51] <pk [jabber scribe]> SB: do not recommend everybody move to 0 TTL
[02:28:57] <pk [jabber scribe]> chairs cut discussion
[02:29:13] <pk [jabber scribe]> next speaker: Brian Carpenter
[02:29:29] <pk [jabber scribe]> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/79/slides/nbs-1.pdf
[02:29:49] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 1/15, title
[02:30:09] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 2/15
[02:30:40] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 3/15
[02:31:44] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 4/15
[02:32:23] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 5/154
[02:32:31] <pk [jabber scribe]> s/154/15/
[02:33:03] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 6
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[02:33:39] Shane Amante is now known as samante
[02:33:45] <pk [jabber scribe]> Lars Eggert (AD) @mic
[02:33:52] wmhaddad leaves the room
[02:33:56] <pk [jabber scribe]> address or address+port?
[02:34:06] <pk [jabber scribe]> BC: yes!
[02:34:19] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 7/15
[02:35:12] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 8/15: real scopes
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[02:36:25] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 9
[02:36:54] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 10
[02:38:19] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 11
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[02:38:40] Shane Amante is now known as samante
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[02:39:57] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 12
[02:40:43] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 13: conclusion
[02:41:17] <pk [jabber scribe]> EoP, Q/A
[02:41:48] <pk [jabber scribe]> no Q/A; last Speaker: Matthias Wählisch
[02:42:14] alexmcmahon leaves the room
[02:42:14] <pk [jabber scribe]> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/79/slides/nbs-5.pdf

[02:42:29] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 2/3: problem statement
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[02:44:04] <pk [jabber scribe]> slide 3/3
[02:46:07] <pk [jabber scribe]> EoP, Q/A
[02:46:24] <pk [jabber scribe]> Erik Nordmark: how do you resolve the "cnn" part in your example URI?
[02:46:37] <pk [jabber scribe]> DNS or something else
[02:47:09] <pk [jabber scribe]> Toerless Eckert: SSM vs global resolvability
[02:47:23] <pk [jabber scribe]> end of presentation session
[02:48:27] <pk [jabber scribe]> discussion opened, questions to be answered on slide 5 in nbs-7.pdf
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[02:48:47] <pk [jabber scribe]> Toni Li: to Dave and Stuart: portable API?
[02:49:25] <pk [jabber scribe]> Erik Nordmark: also important for middleware providers
[02:49:56] <pk [jabber scribe]> Dave Thaler: W3C has platform independent APIs in the browser
[02:50:01] <pk [jabber scribe]> (as an example)
[02:50:47] <pk [jabber scribe]> Austin Group "owns" C APIs, so not to be done by IETF - many different frameworks
[02:51:38] <pk [jabber scribe]> Toerless: Austin group potentially not experts on topic at hand
[02:51:59] <pk [jabber scribe]> Dave: job of the API may be definition of an "abstract API", cf. GSS API
[02:52:26] <pk [jabber scribe]> s/job of the API/job of the IETF/
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[02:54:11] <pk [jabber scribe]> toerless: primary objective of presenters was how to add their extensions to the ip stack
[02:55:15] <pk [jabber scribe]> Jari Arkko: to what extent if we delevlop abstract API with names i/o addresses would other orgs be able to use this?
[02:55:57] <pk [jabber scribe]> Dave Thaler: {refers to presentation} people are moving to name based apis already
[02:57:56] <pk [jabber scribe]> Erik Nordmark: disagree wrt benefits of concrete API
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[02:59:30] <pk [jabber scribe]> Christian: Erik, can you elaborate on IETF relation with other orgs re: IPv6 API?
[03:00:36] <pk [jabber scribe]> Dave Thaler: basic sockets API did not go to Austin Group before being reviewed @IETF, multicast src filter api was different
[03:02:28] <pk [jabber scribe]> DT: agree with Erik on value of the concrete API; doesn't need to be done in the IETF, but same time (in other og)
[03:02:56] <pk [jabber scribe]> Liam Casey: on question 3 (feasible to solve problem)?
[03:03:28] <pk [jabber scribe]> Javier Ubillos: name exchange w/o authentication
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[03:05:17] <pk [jabber scribe]> LiamC: wonder whether this will be acceptable to the IETF security people
[03:05:49] <pk [jabber scribe]> Christian summarizes: could be name verification along the communication i/o at the beginning
[03:07:06] <pk [jabber scribe]> Andrew McGregor: doing s/th hip like
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[03:07:51] <pk [jabber scribe]> Erik Nordmark: some unknowns here: how early to do validation depends on how to deal with TCP conn
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[03:09:44] <pk [jabber scribe]> Christian: initiators "real" name necessary?
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[03:11:40] <pk [jabber scribe]> Dave Thaler: 3 cases; ...; the other two: ip address reachability, may be true for names (name doesn't have to be resolvable, client can have multiple names)
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[03:11:59] <pk [jabber scribe]> resovable by the recipient or verify that two are the same
[03:13:19] <pk [jabber scribe]> Javier Ubillos @mic
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[03:14:02] <pk [jabber scribe]> Lars Eggert (AD): change track of discussion -> 2nd bullet (demand by apps, os vendeors)?
[03:14:31] <pk [jabber scribe]> problem is developing protocols that see adoption rather than protocols that work
[03:15:07] <pk [jabber scribe]> Erik Nordmark: benefit of having API (provided this turns into concrete API) is worth it
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[03:16:25] <pk [jabber scribe]> Jari Arkko: lars was spot on
[03:17:19] <pk [jabber scribe]> sceptical about protocol stuff, api is of course interesting, but no clear answer how much is to  be done
[03:17:33] <pk [jabber scribe]> Toerless Eckert: not sure how to separate API from protocol
[03:18:38] <pk [jabber scribe]> Yuri Ismailov: question of API is matter of taste like which editor to use
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[03:18:49] <Javier Ubillos> Yuri Ismalov @ mic
[03:20:33] <pk [jabber scribe]> Dave Thaler: three different questions to ask: 1) do we need to address APIs, 2) need to address behaviour underneath API, 3) protocol
[03:21:21] <pk [jabber scribe]> Erik  Nordmark
[03:23:06] <pk [jabber scribe]> Lars Eggert: if you can structure API so it can be offered to local user base, might give you partial benefit for partial deployment
[03:23:23] <pk [jabber scribe]> "why would the first guy implement it?"
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[03:24:16] <pk [jabber scribe]> Christian: two feature sets: initial, local vs. what happens if all the peers kick in in a later stage of deployment
[03:24:24] <pk [jabber scribe]> Randall Stewart
[03:24:35] <pk [jabber scribe]> {mic line closed}
[03:25:19] <Javier Ubillos> Who's talking now?
[03:25:34] <pk [jabber scribe]> Randall Stewar[dt] @mic
[03:25:34] <Lars> randy stewart
[03:25:37] <Javier Ubillos> Oh, randal, sorry.
[03:26:41] <pk [jabber scribe]> Lars Eggert: BSD socket API had sendfile extension that avoided app level copy function; adoption took years
[03:27:00] <pk [jabber scribe]> Martin: sum up
[03:27:38] <pk [jabber scribe]> do people think it's useful to have enhanced socket API with FQDN defined by the IETF?
[03:28:05] <pk [jabber scribe]> 15 people hand - bad idea? 2 hands
[03:28:21] <pk [jabber scribe]> who thinks IETF should define behaviour of API?  25
[03:28:30] <pk [jabber scribe]> bad idea? 0
[03:28:48] <pk [jabber scribe]> who believes it's a good idea to work on protocoll below API
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[03:29:01] <pk [jabber scribe]> lars: rephrase question: not "bad idea"
[03:29:18] <pk [jabber scribe]> again: protocl work in IETF?  ~25
[03:29:31] <pk [jabber scribe]> [numbers non auth]
[03:29:42] <pk [jabber scribe]> 1) 21: 2
[03:29:45] <pk [jabber scribe]> 2) 17:0
[03:30:07] resnick leaves the room
[03:30:10] <pk [jabber scribe]> Toerless: 1st question had no distinction between conrete and abstract API
[03:30:19] <pk [jabber scribe]> not work on protocol?
[03:30:26] <pk [jabber scribe]> so 3) 15:2
[03:30:39] <pk [jabber scribe]> Yuri: how should last question be interpreted?
[03:31:35] <pk [jabber scribe]> Martin: whatever requires coordination between hosts
[03:31:52] <pk [jabber scribe]> this is the end of this BOF session
[03:32:04] pk [jabber scribe] has set the subject to: NBS BoF over
[03:32:27] pk [jabber scribe] leaves the room: Computer went to sleep
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[05:06:23] samante leaves the room
[05:08:34] Lars leaves the room
[05:09:33] samante joins the room
[05:34:04] martin.stiemerling leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[05:34:07] martin.stiemerling joins the room
[05:37:07] martin.stiemerling leaves the room
[05:37:08] ꈲ joins the room
[05:54:49] nobobo joins the room
[05:57:45] ꈲ leaves the room
[06:06:03] ꈲ joins the room
[06:09:36] bortzmeyer joins the room
[06:10:27] bortzmeyer leaves the room
[06:15:27] Jacky Yao (Health Yao) joins the room
[06:49:46] ꈲ leaves the room
[07:02:35] ꈲ joins the room
[07:03:16] bhoeneis leaves the room
[07:03:16] Jacky Yao (Health Yao) leaves the room
[07:11:19] nobobo leaves the room
[07:14:55] bhoeneis joins the room
[07:16:17] nobobo joins the room
[07:25:28] Jacky Yao (Health Yao) joins the room
[07:25:53] Jacky Yao (Health Yao) leaves the room
[07:31:39] nobobo leaves the room
[08:01:15] samante leaves the room
[08:12:16] bhoeneis leaves the room
[08:29:46] ꈲ leaves the room
[08:47:13] bhoeneis joins the room
[08:55:30] ꈲ joins the room
[09:34:46] bhoeneis leaves the room
[10:38:31] pk [jabber scribe] joins the room
[10:39:27] pk [jabber scribe] leaves the room
[11:34:17] ꈲ leaves the room
[12:00:37] ꈲ joins the room
[22:58:20] ꈲ leaves the room