[10:42:40] --- koojana has become available
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[10:57:55] <koojana> has meeting stared?
[10:58:17] <koojana> audio stream is not that clear?
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[11:05:21] --- TJ has become available
[11:05:43] <TJ> Can you hear it now?
[11:05:48] <TJ> Nicholas is going over the agenda
[11:05:56] <TJ> and now going into the charter items
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[11:06:09] <koojana> yes, now it's clear
[11:06:15] <TJ> Focusing on mobile IPv6 and NEMO basic support -- multiple CoAs and multiple HA addresses
[11:07:14] <koojana> TJ, since I can hear it clearly, it's not necessary to write everything,
[11:07:21] <TJ> oki doki
[11:07:31] <koojana> in case I need to ask a quest. I will tell you
[11:07:37] <TJ> yep
[11:09:22] <koojana> yes
[11:09:32] <koojana> charter page ->
[11:09:42] <koojana> dates are wrong for goals & milestones
[11:09:47] <koojana> it says that 2005
[11:10:01] <koojana> it should be 2006
[11:10:13] <cabo--tzi--org> Yes, obviously...
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[11:45:00] <petrescu> misunderstanding at BoF time...
[11:45:58] <petrescu> here is My Ami66: http://www.aparaty.promocja.net/zdjecia/ami66.htm
[11:50:03] <TJ> maybe we can create monami66 to discuss the definition of multihoming
[11:52:11] <petrescu> which nemo issues?
[11:52:50] --- terror71 has become available
[11:52:57] <petrescu> hey terror
[11:53:04] <terror71> yo
[11:53:23] <petrescu> is multi-homing terrifying?
[11:53:38] <terror71> horrible
[11:53:42] <peetu> Simple
[11:53:54] <koojana> who is talking now?
[11:54:00] <TJ> pekka nikander
[11:54:05] <koojana> talking abt boiling the ocean
[11:54:17] <koojana> ok
[11:54:20] <TJ> yah, Pekka and Thierry are discussing the ocean
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[11:54:59] <TJ> are you taking notes Kooja?
[11:55:04] <koojana> no
[11:55:11] <koojana> do i have to?
[11:55:15] <petrescu> please take notes here someone - very useful later.
[11:55:24] <koojana> ok
[11:55:30] <TJ> I nominate... Alex
[11:55:43] <petrescu> here i go...
[11:55:50] <petrescu> we need to undesrand now as a WG that solutions that we build
[11:55:54] <koojana> don't rely on me 100% sometimes audio breks
[11:56:04] <petrescu> will actually fit in in some bigger bicture down the road.
[11:56:15] <petrescu> we can actually do w/o locatorvsids
[11:56:21] <petrescu> that was Erik Nordmark
[11:56:41] <petrescu> Pekka: keep it focused please. But if you want to understand the wider space then you must get into these subteltiles.
[11:57:04] <petrescu> Hesham: scope of the actual work are narrower in scope. It would be boiling the ocena if we tried to solve everything oin the
[11:57:09] <petrescu> analysis document...
[11:57:27] <petrescu> Is this Nicolas?
[11:57:40] <koojana> yes
[11:58:02] <petrescu> Nicolas: is reading the slide: can we consider this draft as a WG document. What do you guys think?
[11:58:10] <petrescu> Thierry: show your hands
[11:58:16] <petrescu> Thierry: who read the document?
[11:58:31] <petrescu> Thierry: who thinks this doc catches the reqs, show your hands.
[11:58:46] <petrescu> HEsham: less than 10 people. Give us a week please.
[11:58:56] <petrescu> Thierry: do people think that this doc is WG doc?
[11:59:17] <petrescu> Thierry is taking notes and will confront that on the mailing list.
[11:59:38] <petrescu> Nicolas: here we go presenting implementation and usage.
[12:00:13] <koojana> This presentation is not on the web?
[12:00:14] <petrescu> Y-G Hong (Korea) is speaking.
[12:00:21] <petrescu> No think so.
[12:00:27] <petrescu> Only agenda is on web seems.
[12:01:03] <koojana> you can find others at https://onsite.ietf.org/public/meeting_materials.cgi?meeting_num=64
[12:01:03] <petrescu> YG: we met a problem, raised an issue and present a solution.
[12:01:27] <petrescu> thanks.
[12:02:14] <cabo--tzi--org> I didn't see Hong's presentation on the MMM either.
[12:02:49] <koojana> not Hong's presentation
[12:02:53] <petrescu> slides then I describe if you wish... let me see...
[12:03:22] <petrescu> problem statements: mip6 specific issues, general network issues, consideration for heteronegeous environments.
[12:03:43] <petrescu> next slide
[12:04:24] <petrescu> problem statements (1/3); for mip6 specific issues; about MIPL, ps sticks too much to implementation issues;
[12:04:55] <petrescu> Using RA reception to determin a movement or even to determine availability is an information that we want to consider in general
[12:05:14] <petrescu> statements (2/3)
[12:05:22] <petrescu> for general network issues:
[12:05:57] <petrescu> this slide contains comments that were discussed on the mailing list
[12:06:22] <petrescu> statements (3/3): for heteroegoeneous environment issues: two emails already discussed
[12:06:51] <petrescu> For general issues: again discussions that happened on the list I believe.
[12:07:03] <petrescu> slide: architecture drawing of a virtual interface model.
[12:07:28] <petrescu> The picture pictures a stack: applications, tcp, ipv6/,oip6, VI (Virtual Interface) and then I1, I2.
[12:07:47] <petrescu> slide: operations of virtual I/F model.
[12:07:59] <petrescu> slide: issues in monami6 for Virtual Interface model.
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[12:08:34] <petrescu> slide: 3 mails messages.
[12:08:50] <petrescu> slide: next steps: problem statement can be added in some related documents.
[12:09:03] <petrescu> VI can be one solution to multiple interface node
[12:09:35] <petrescu> Erik Nordmark: have you looked at DNA related work for movement detection pieces?
[12:09:59] <petrescu> H: yes, I researched into DNA WG I think the multiple interfaces, modification issues.
[12:10:16] <petrescu> Erik: layer a virtual interface, run DNA over a virtual interface, it would work.
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[12:15:31] <cabo--tzi--org> Ryuji's presentation is monami6-8.pdf on the MMM site.
[12:17:03] <petrescu> http://onsite.ietf.org/proceedings/05nov/slides/monami6-8.pdf
[12:19:41] <petrescu> why the BID is only 16bit? Will it overflow?
[12:20:55] <petrescu> Hesham: thinks that one of the options is the worst.
[12:22:01] <petrescu> Erik: BID is better for robustness. Not to with size. If the MN moves and sends BU and not receives anything, and then moves again...
[12:22:13] <petrescu> Erik: so the MN doesn't know state.
[12:22:20] <petrescu> Erik: BID seems more robust.
[12:22:49] <petrescu> Vijay: search by BID? You still look up the BC with HoA and after finding the entry will you lookup with BID...
[12:23:18] <petrescu> Ryuji: thi sis implementation specific. Some impl will give the BID...
[12:26:11] <petrescu> chan-wah ng: multiple something?
[12:26:19] <petrescu> ryuji: single home address...
[12:26:37] <petrescu> Chan-wah: i don't think it's implementation specific.
[12:26:55] <petrescu> Ryuji: MIP6 only gives a "conceptual" data structure.
[12:27:23] <petrescu> CW: you ould use the BID to identify which column?
[12:27:49] <petrescu> CW: then may be a need to modify the conceptual data structure of MIP6. Because it would help you to describe how to look for CoAs
[12:28:03] <petrescu> RW: we define extensions to the conceptual data structures. Thanks.
[12:29:08] <petrescu> HS is Hesham Soliman.
[12:29:57] <petrescu> RW: I don't have a strong comment on issue 3.
[12:30:09] <petrescu> HS: doesn't undesrtand this part. A generic framework w/o policies.
[12:30:26] <petrescu> HS: MH with two home addresses registers them home and then returns home.
[12:30:51] <petrescu> RW: impossible for the current MIP6 spec. The HA defends only one address currently. Which of the two will the HA defend?
[12:31:00] <petrescu> HS: we should be saying that if any of the interfaces comes home, then ...
[12:31:15] <petrescu> HS: it's confusing to allocate ... no real meaning.
[12:31:22] <petrescu> Gerardo Giaretta:
[12:31:31] <petrescu> load bandwidth...
[12:31:39] <petrescu> HS: either you come home or you don't.
[12:31:57] <petrescu> HS: doesn't make sense to have an interface arrived home and the other no.
[12:33:03] <petrescu> Benjamin something.
[12:33:23] <petrescu> sorry guys sometimes I can't understand.
[12:33:49] <petrescu> flag is scare :-) terrifying horrifying :-)
[12:34:15] <petrescu> Vijay Devarapalli is VD
[12:34:53] <petrescu> VD: difference between using a flag and a mobility option; a flag is non-skippable; an mob header is...
[12:35:04] <petrescu> VD: it's not necessary to extend.
[12:35:19] <petrescu> HS: the HA discovery part.
[12:35:25] <petrescu> HS: I don't agree with the flag argument.
[12:35:44] <petrescu> HS: receiver should do something. The flag should also work.
[12:37:17] <petrescu> RW: questions I have.
[12:37:28] <petrescu> RW: how to proceed? Answer is really obvious.
[12:37:41] <petrescu> RW: update security issues we have to address.
[12:37:49] <petrescu> RW: do we get this as a WG item?
[12:38:19] <petrescu> HS: this is providing a framework. LAter on separate documents could do policies. If we do that we should progress thiss with the policies documents.
[12:38:40] <petrescu> RW: important. This is just a way. But we have the policies thing. Thepolicy design tema?>
[12:39:53] <petrescu> CW is Chan-wah Ng
[12:39:58] <petrescu> CW: industry side impls?
[12:40:08] <petrescu> RW: there are a couple of companies working on this?
[12:40:15] <petrescu> Raj Patil is BP
[12:40:24] <petrescu> BP: whydelaying?
[12:42:11] <petrescu> TE: how many people read the document? how many people should proceed with this wg item doc? How many people not?
[12:42:38] <cabo--tzi--org> monami6-4.pdf
[12:43:05] <petrescu> can you clikc that?
[12:43:16] <koojana> I can't see it
[12:43:35] <petrescu> slides then should I describe?
[12:43:55] <cabo--tzi--org> http://onsite.ietf.org/proceedings/05nov/slides/monami6-4.pdf
[12:45:08] <koojana> i can see all the other except this, it's ok. thanks
[12:46:07] <peetu> http://onsite.ietf.org/proceedings/05nov/slides/monami6-11.pdf
[12:50:55] <petrescu> EN: whle doing forwaridng over multiple CoAs when a sinlge HoA may be a concern.
[12:50:56] <petrescu> Mobike is not doing this.
[12:51:04] <petrescu> VD: sequence numbers.
[12:51:18] <petrescu> EN: try to use a single IPsec SA for multiple flows.
[12:51:33] <petrescu> EN: and going through a single CoA.
[12:51:37] <petrescu> HS: couldn't work at all.
[12:51:55] <petrescu> HS: one primary CoA for HoTI and CoTI but we can't use same SA over multiple interfaces.
[12:52:07] <petrescu> Who's the guy on red sweat?
[12:52:32] <petrescu> EN: different destination addresses for same SA. If you do that, it's an issue.
[12:52:34] <petrescu> VD: I agree.
[12:53:07] <petrescu> HS: as far as protecting MIP6 signalling, pick one address for HoTI and CoTI. But if we want to protect multiple interfaces then there should be multiple SAs, unless VPN gateway.
[12:53:33] <petrescu> VD: the HoTI is easy. I have a solution but don't do IPsec protection for flows.
[12:53:37] <petrescu> Francis Dupont is FD
[12:53:50] <petrescu> FD: consider this as a a request to issue 8 in Mobike?
[12:53:53] <petrescu> VD: sure.
[12:54:17] <petrescu> FD: issue 8 is multiple address change. USe one IKEv2 session to manage the different CoAs.
[12:54:33] <petrescu> VD: if you have to have multiple exchanges and multpile SAs then it becomes a pain.
[12:55:41] <petrescu> HS presenting "support for floiw bindings in MIP6 and nemo"
[12:55:52] <petrescu> slides?
[12:56:29] <cabo--tzi--org> I don't find any.
[12:57:32] <koojana> It's not on the web, but I got a drf
[12:58:05] <petrescu> drf is digital rights file?
[13:05:48] <petrescu> HS: thinks we need more discussion on the MR side of things (MH is clear).
[13:06:21] <petrescu> HS: we add many things to BU, figure out how we all work together.
[13:06:36] <petrescu> HS: all info in BU may be quite large, so make it efficient.
[13:07:28] <petrescu> question from a guy whse name I don't know
[13:07:38] <petrescu> In 3GPP we use traffic flow template.
[13:07:46] <petrescu> HS: it's basically right this.
[13:07:56] <petrescu> Is this Pervez something?
[13:08:16] <petrescu> Chairs should ask to give names.
[13:08:23] <petrescu> Chairs are alsepp?
[13:08:33] <petrescu> Sri Gunderavalli is SG:
[13:08:47] <petrescu> SG: the type is sufficient? There could be many other parameters.
[13:08:59] <petrescu> HS: good question. he explains with slides.
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[13:09:47] <petrescu> HS: should info from one wireless link of MN be sent to the other wireless link of same MN?
[13:09:56] <petrescu> TE: in monami6?
[13:10:01] <petrescu> HS: maybe your analysis document.
[13:10:20] <petrescu> Name of the guy at the microphone?
[13:10:29] <petrescu> Carsten Bormann
[13:10:41] <petrescu> CB: more differences between various prooposals, what you should do with the flow.
[13:11:03] <petrescu> So far only "binding". Additional functions: dropping a flow, splitting a flow (inding it to a rogue pacjet distributor).
[13:11:23] <petrescu> HS: ntentionally left it out, I can't defend that. I can't misprepresnt.
[13:11:45] <petrescu> HS: the idea is to add flow bindings. If we talkl dropping a flow by a middle box, dangerous. Firewalling?
[13:11:59] <petrescu> HS: unilaterally done by HA dangerous.
[13:12:20] <petrescu> CB: could be dropped at the source.
[13:12:30] <petrescu> HS: applieas to anything, any connection could be stopped.
[13:12:41] <petrescu> CB: switch off an interface is a good reason.
[13:12:51] <petrescu> HS: support the idea of changing.
[13:13:08] <petrescu> HS: not want something in the middle to decide that.
[13:13:22] <petrescu> TE: what is the nexxt steps?
[13:13:39] <petrescu> HS: I think we can start with what we agree on. Put on a single document, highlight issues.
[13:13:44] <petrescu> HS: issue tracker?
[13:13:54] <petrescu> HS: I'm happy to put together all things we've discussed.
[13:14:08] <petrescu> TE: can you with a document for the next IETF.
[13:14:11] <petrescu> HS: yeah...
[13:15:10] <petrescu> Momose is this?
[13:15:15] <petrescu> Momose: is this WG item?
[13:15:25] <petrescu> TE: we expect this to become.
[13:15:31] <petrescu> TE: discuss this on the mailing list...
[13:16:04] <petrescu> S. Charles Tsao: benefits of multiple CoAs and HoAs for low power multimode mobiles.
[13:16:18] <momose> the person on the mike was mitsuya, not momose
[13:16:22] <petrescu> He's with National Chiao Tung University in Taiwan.
[13:16:32] <petrescu> Right, I think he's Koshiro Mitsuya, sorry.
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[13:22:44] <petrescu> Sri G: once you power up the interface, what do you think the address happens with?
[13:22:50] <petrescu> SCT: yes, it's lost.
[13:23:22] <petrescu> HS: obvious issue: using HoA of the physical interface. REsult: multiple encapsulations. Compare to other cases where the HoA is not of interface: less efficient.
[13:23:29] <petrescu> HS: the 3G address will never change.
[13:23:38] <petrescu> SCT: the WiMax address doesn't change.
[13:23:59] <petrescu> Someone from vodafone, Nick.
[13:24:08] <petrescu> Even in 3G the address is not globally routable.
[13:26:09] <petrescu> SCT: for those special cases, or are they potentially interesting or useful? Do we consider these benfits of this situations in the monami6 goals and benefits documents?
[13:26:43] <petrescu> SCT: those scenarios no new requirements or issues. Q: those document is not covered by these situations. Should we add some more text to describe these situations?
[13:26:58] <petrescu> TE: ask this please on the mailing list. BE more precise which kind of text, thank you.
[13:27:14] <petrescu> So that's his Ami6 :-)
[13:28:01] <petrescu> Conclusions: WG Item #3 stronmg acceptance for wg item.
[13:28:20] <petrescu> wg item #4 authors to merge 3 existing into one. MH side ok need to discuss more about MR side.
[13:28:34] <petrescu> wg item #4 comments on the ml should be considered by authors.
[13:28:50] <petrescu> TE: concerns you have mailing list there is.
[13:29:04] <petrescu> TE: rather than sending a new solution or whatever.
[13:29:23] <petrescu> TE: multi-homing activities covered in the NEMO WG.
[13:29:27] <petrescu> TE: multiple HAs.
[13:30:02] <petrescu> TE: tomorrow on NEMO mh. probably move the nemo mh activitires here.
[13:30:23] <petrescu> TE: seamless ho considerations for multiple CoA. Should that be here? FMIPv6? Please mailing list you have.
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[13:30:40] <petrescu> TE: if you have taken notes
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