[05:56:42] --- alfredh has joined [05:57:24] --- csp has joined [05:59:48] --- magnus has joined [05:59:52] --- Dan York has joined [06:01:02] --- Dan York has left [06:01:04] --- Dan York has joined [06:02:25] --- petithug has joined [06:03:38] --- suzukisn has joined [06:03:43] --- suzukisn has left [06:03:58] --- Jean-Francois has joined [06:04:25] --- voiploser has joined [06:04:37] --- voiploser is now known as adamuzelac [06:04:37] --- adamuzelac is now known as voiploser [06:04:38] --- voiploser has left [06:04:39] --- adamuzelac has joined [06:04:39] --- adamuzelac is now known as voiploser [06:04:46] I'll scribe the session [06:04:59] Agenda at: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08mar/agenda/mmusic.html [06:05:09] Chairs starting the session [06:05:20] --- voiploser is now known as AdamUzelac [06:05:21] --- AdamUzelac is now known as adamuzelac [06:05:21] --- adamuzelac is now known as voiploser [06:05:21] --- voiploser is now known as AdamUzelac [06:05:21] --- AdamUzelac has left [06:05:22] --- adamuzelac has joined [06:05:22] --- adamuzelac is now known as voiploser [06:05:22] --- voiploser is now known as AdamUzelac [06:05:33] Streaming audio at http://videolab.uoregon.edu/events/ietf/ietf712.m3u [06:05:44] Agenda bash [06:05:44] --- Cullen Jennings has joined [06:05:58] Audio is understandable, but I get a lot of background noise. [06:06:14] --- AdamUzelac is now known as voiploser [06:06:14] --- voiploser is now known as adamuzelac [06:06:14] --- adamuzelac is now known as voiploser [06:06:14] --- voiploser is now known as AdamUzelac [06:06:15] --- AdamUzelac has left [06:06:15] --- adamuzelac has joined [06:06:15] --- adamuzelac is now known as voiploser [06:06:15] --- voiploser is now known as AdamUzelac [06:06:26] Chairs giving progress report [06:07:08] --- roni_even has joined [06:08:09] --- AdamUzelac is now known as adamuzelac [06:08:09] --- adamuzelac is now known as voiploser [06:08:09] --- voiploser is now known as AdamUzelac [06:09:08] csp: Still a lot of background noise? [06:09:19] --- roni_even has left [06:09:46] --- AdamUzelac is now known as adamuzelac [06:09:46] --- adamuzelac is now known as voiploser [06:09:46] --- voiploser is now known as AdamUzelac [06:09:56] --- Cullen Jennings has left [06:10:03] --- sal has joined [06:10:07] --- tomkri has joined [06:10:07] --- AdamUzelac is now known as adamuzelac [06:10:07] --- adamuzelac is now known as voiploser [06:10:07] --- voiploser is now known as AdamUzelac [06:10:28] --- AdamUzelac is now known as voiploser [06:10:28] --- voiploser is now known as adamuzelac [06:10:28] --- adamuzelac is now known as voiploser [06:10:28] --- voiploser is now known as AdamUzelac [06:10:29] --- AdamUzelac has left [06:10:29] --- adamuzelac has joined [06:10:29] --- adamuzelac is now known as voiploser [06:10:29] --- voiploser is now known as AdamUzelac [06:11:06] --- Cullen Jennings has joined [06:11:15] Question from Jonathan Lennox [06:11:20] Yes, lot of noise, I can barely understand the speaker. [06:11:34] --- victor.pascual.avila has joined [06:11:45] Jonathan Rosenberg up now to do ICE-tcp [06:12:10] If anyone remote wants to raise a question, ping me and I'll raise it. [06:12:28] Can't hear Jonathan at all - is his mike on? [06:12:36] --- jfischl has joined [06:13:00] --- nm has joined [06:13:09] --- vanwijk has joined [06:13:09] --- AdamUzelac is now known as adamuzelac [06:13:09] --- adamuzelac is now known as voiploser [06:13:09] --- voiploser is now known as AdamUzelac [06:13:16] Slides at http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/08mar/slides/mmusic-1.pdf [06:13:26] thnks dan [06:13:37] --- nm has left [06:13:39] No audio [06:13:58] does this work? [06:14:07] You should hear him now :-) [06:14:15] yes [06:14:17] I hear him LOUD and clear :-) [06:14:18] never noticed the difference :-) [06:14:23] Thanks for the ping. [06:14:54] Port Prediction slide [06:15:04] slide 4 [06:15:23] --- AdamUzelac has left: Logging off [06:16:48] Francois Audet at mic [06:17:33] Magnus at mic [06:18:35] Magnus: not a huge fan of using port prediction [06:19:04] --- voiploser has joined [06:20:02] "It's not a happy technology" :-) [06:20:05] --- apn has joined [06:20:22] Now on Recommendations slide [06:20:53] Martin S. at the mike: would it be worse documenting the port prediction method? [06:21:01] --- hscholz has joined [06:21:03] --- rohan has joined [06:22:24] --- =JeffH has joined [06:22:32] Questioner at mic [06:22:36] not sure who [06:22:43] from Remi D-C [06:22:57] Phillip Matthews at mic [06:24:10] --- Dean has joined [06:24:44] Cullen Jennings at mic [06:25:17] * =JeffH <-- didn't replace home net boxen until hardware failure..... [06:25:44] * Dan York agrees with =JeffH [06:27:45] <=JeffH> News Flash: JonathanR is gonna tout TCP over UDP.... news in a few minutes.... [06:28:31] --- suzukisn has joined [06:28:40] <=JeffH> quote: "lemme explain it before u beat it up" [06:29:03] Dave Oran asked if it was IP over UDP? [06:29:25] Going for slightly less evil? :-) [06:29:48] Dave asked if it was TCP over IP over UDP [06:30:10] <=JeffH> JonR just mentioned that possibility.... [06:30:40] testing [06:32:11] --- Dan York has left: Replaced by new connection [06:32:27] --- Dan York2 has joined [06:32:42] Phillip Matthews at mic [06:32:49] Rohan, Cullen and EKR queued [06:33:13] if you want to use TCP transport for media because UDP is blocked -- then how can it work to tunnel TCP in UDP??? [06:33:20] Rohan at mic [06:34:01] Rohan - "There is some theoretical point at which something is so gross that we don't do it all." [06:34:11] Cullen at mic - this isn't the right working group for it [06:34:34] There will be meeting at the Transport working group [06:34:58] Magnus at mic [06:35:17] problem there is that it meets as the same time as RUCUS - :( [06:35:39] --- Gonzalo has joined [06:36:47] Roni Evan at mic [06:37:28] Discussion of circular condition where UDP falls back to TCP. If you run TCP over UDP, what happens when you need to "fall back" to TCP? ;-) [06:38:12] --- voiploser has left [06:38:30] Phillip Matthews at mic - general approach is worth investigating [06:39:05] --- voiploser has joined [06:39:09] Transport Area mtg is tomorrow night [06:39:09] --- Gonzalo has left [06:39:30] --- jfischl has left [06:39:36] The discussion on methods for using UDP encapsulation of various protocols will take place in the Transport Area meeting on Tuesday night. [06:40:00] Seems that we lost the audio stream. [06:40:23] --- sakuma.macx has joined [06:41:00] 1740-1840 on Tuesday in Franklin 1/2 [06:42:54] Christer at mic [06:43:00] (Adam Roach was before) [06:43:47] Remi D-C at mic [06:44:23] EKR and Henry Sinnreich queued [06:44:33] Is audio stream down for others? [06:44:49] Yes - it's completely died. Can't connect to the server. [06:45:25] Okay, I'll ping Joel Jaeggli [06:45:42] thanks [06:46:02] Rohan at mic [06:46:48] note sent to Joel [06:46:59] Not sure who is at mic [06:47:06] --- jr111 has joined [06:47:35] Audio just came back [06:48:07] Aki Niemi spoke at the mic after me (rohan) [06:48:47] Adam Roach is at mic [06:49:18] Phillip Matthews - eventually this will get better [06:49:29] Francois Audet [06:49:41] "the cure is worse than the disease" [06:50:20] Chair - consensus seems to be that we need to continue the discussion [06:50:36] Bruce Lowekamp at mic talking from P2PSIP p.o.v [06:50:46] P2PSIP will need this [06:51:02] Henry Sinnreich at mic [06:51:46] --- Cullen Jennings has left [06:52:07] JR is now moving on to NICE [06:52:39] 4 other protocols are looking at ICE to solve NAT traversal [06:52:54] can we define a single mechanism [06:53:08] NICE is ICE without the SIP-specific parts [06:55:12] This is....? [06:55:14] Aki Niemi? [06:55:27] --- voiploser has left [06:55:41] JR has posed question - can we have a generic NAT traversal protocol? [06:55:55] Cullen and Magnus at mic... Cullen speaking [06:56:13] where should this work occur? [06:56:21] MMUSIC or another group [06:56:33] Bruce Lowekamp at mic [06:57:15] How many people who need this don't already have a way to get an ICE implementation [06:57:38] doesn't want to have his current ICE implementation have to work in different modes [06:58:01] would implementing a subset break a full ICE implementation? [06:58:19] EKR at mic - existing ICE stack needs to work [06:59:23] Phillip Matthews at mic [06:59:36] Worries about multiple implementations [07:00:15] Magnus at mic [07:00:50] Remi at mic [07:01:13] BTW, slides are at http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/08mar/slides/mmusic-2.pdf [07:02:08] --- Cullen Jennings has joined [07:02:10] Side note - there's a stenographer at the table in the front - is she taking formal notes of this session? (Or just taking them for herself.) [07:02:16] JR preso over [07:02:22] Roni Evans up next [07:02:27] SDP media capabilities Negotiation [07:02:33] Slides - http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/08mar/slides/mmusic-3.pdf [07:02:46] Roni Even [07:03:07] slide 2 [07:04:06] slide 3 - changes from version 02 [07:06:10] --- apn has left [07:06:34] slide 4 [07:06:53] --- Cullen Jennings has left [07:08:50] slide 5 [07:11:28] Final slide - next step [07:11:43] Need reviewers (as not many people indicated they had read the draft) [07:11:52] --- Cullen Jennings has joined [07:12:39] --- lj324o230ar has joined [07:12:45] Roni is done. [07:13:14] Chair - do we need this? Why is there so much silence? [07:13:29] Christer at mic [07:15:25] Phillip Matthews at mic [07:15:46] There is a group in Avaya who wants to see this draft go forward. [07:15:53] Henry Sinnreich at mic [07:16:41] Challenge is that it is hard for new codecs. [07:16:50] Roni and Henry discussing this. [07:17:22] Chair - new codec authors need to document their RTP payload and SDP attributes [07:17:30] Magnus at mic [07:17:52] Miguel Garcia at mic [07:18:19] He would like draft to progress [07:18:27] Ingemar Johannson at mic [07:18:55] Thinks there needs to be rules for constructing capability attributes in SDP (Roni's last bullet) [07:19:03] Chair - we need more reviewers. [07:19:45] Roni is done. [07:19:52] Magnus Westerlund next [07:20:10] Slides - http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/08mar/slides/mmusic-6.pdf [07:20:18] Can't hear Magnus [07:20:37] on now [07:20:38] thanks - that's better [07:21:40] Oops... I gave you the wrong slides [07:21:43] he's on http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/08mar/slides/mmusic-4.pdf [07:22:06] Slide 3 "Fleshed out proposal" [07:22:22] JR at mic [07:23:00] #define JR "Jonathan Rosenberg" [07:23:01] :-) [07:23:20] Slide 4 Example [07:23:45] Slide 5 next example [07:24:28] --- roni_even has joined [08:28:32] --- richard.barnes has joined [08:29:11] --- sakuma.macx has joined [08:30:23] --- richard.barnes has left [08:31:00] --- hanserik.van.elburg has joined [08:31:21] --- hanserik.van.elburg has left [08:31:51] --- petithug has joined [08:31:59] --- otmar has joined [08:32:05] --- otmar has left [08:32:17] --- csp has joined [08:33:15] --- Dan York2 has joined [08:33:42] Ah, Jabber server seems to be back up now [08:34:02] ... and the MMUSIC session ends in about 5 minutes... :-( [08:35:04] Has the audio been fine through the session? [08:35:14] yes [08:35:28] good [08:39:50] Next preso - SDP and ptime [08:40:14] Slides - http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-garcia-mmusic-multiple-ptimes-problem-02.txt [08:40:18] --- tomkri has joined [08:40:50] --- tomkri has left: Lost connection [08:45:07] --- cboulton has joined [08:45:13] --- tomkri has joined [08:46:00] --- tomkri has left: Lost connection [08:47:42] --- mayumimunakata has joined [08:49:14] Miguel Garcia up on Circuit-switched descriptions in SDP [08:49:22] --- mayumimunakata has left [08:49:53] Slides at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-garcia-mmusic-sdp-cs-00.txt [08:50:09] Session is continuing even though it formally ended at 11:35. [08:50:35] --- cboulton has left [08:51:49] Interesting idea - use SIP to signal that you want to do an audio stream over a traditional circuit-switched audio channel. [08:51:54] --- cboulton has joined [08:52:32] Idea is for cell phones who have a narrow data channel - enough to support data (SIP) but not RTP. So you use SIP for control and the regular phone network for audio. [08:52:41] slide 4 [08:58:27] On slide 8, Next Steps [08:58:30] Christer at mic [09:00:50] --- sakuma.macx has left [09:00:59] --- csp has left [09:01:26] --- Dan York2 has left: Computer went to sleep [09:02:49] --- cboulton has left [09:04:28] --- tomkri has joined [09:56:24] --- Dan York2 has joined [09:56:58] --- Dan York2 has left: Replaced by new connection [09:59:00] --- Dan York2 has joined [09:59:06] --- Dan York2 has left [10:00:06] --- petithug has left [10:12:39] --- =JeffH has joined [10:12:50] --- =JeffH has left [10:13:10] --- sal has joined [10:33:45] --- Jean-Francois has joined [11:33:31] --- tomkri has joined [11:34:12] --- tomkri has left: Lost connection [12:16:36] --- tomkri has joined [12:16:40] --- tomkri has left [12:21:18] --- Jean-Francois has joined [12:21:40] --- Jean-Francois has left: Disconnected [12:22:42] --- ysuzuki has joined [12:23:09] --- Jean-Francois has joined [12:23:12] --- Jean-Francois has left: Disconnected [12:23:17] --- ysuzuki has left [12:24:27] --- ysuzuki has joined [12:24:31] --- ysuzuki has left [12:24:38] --- Jean-Francois has joined [12:26:01] --- Jean-Francois has left: Disconnected [12:45:15] --- ysuzuki has joined [12:45:20] --- ysuzuki has left [13:57:50] --- tomkri has joined [14:01:17] --- tomkri has left [23:35:08] --- tomkri has joined [23:35:47] --- tomkri has left: Lost connection