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[08:50:43] <Tim Hollebeek> Welcome everyone!
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[09:04:19] <Quynh Dang> Hi all, what is going on ?
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[09:04:36] <dkg> i think the chairs are debugging audio
[09:04:39] <Tim Hollebeek> Russ is working through audio issues, we'll begin shortly.
[09:04:49] <Tim Hollebeek> I assume you heard me ok dkg?
[09:04:53] <Quynh Dang> Thanks @dkg
[09:05:00] <dkg> i heard you say that, but it was … minutes ago!
[09:05:14] <dkg> since then, i've heard nothing
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[09:05:23] <Tim Hollebeek> yeah, there's been nothing since then.
[09:05:25] <Phillip Hallam-Baker> Me tooo...
[09:05:34] <dkg> we hear you
[09:05:35] <Tadahiko Ito> Yes
[09:05:36] <Marcus Brinkmann> loud and clear
[09:05:37] <Phillip Hallam-Baker> yes
[09:05:37] <Jonathan Hammell> I could head Rich!
[09:05:55] <dkg> sounded like Rich to me
[09:06:04] <dkg> reminds me of the floating head
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[09:06:17] <dkg> we hear you
[09:06:35] <dkg> IETF 109: have you tried turning it off and turning it on again?
[09:06:40] <Hendrik Brockhaus> sound sounds good :-)
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[09:13:15] <dkg> lgtm
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[09:20:56] <dkg> s/22519/25519/ plz :)
[09:21:32] <dkg> yeah, i strongly support 25519 -- but it's not ECDSA
[09:21:41] <Quynh Dang> EdDSA
[09:22:18] <dkg> if you're going to include that, then goldilocks (curve448) is another good curve to use for EdDSA
[09:23:30] <Deb Cooley> DSA is a little long in the tooth (old)
[09:23:33] <dkg> please drop finite field DSA
[09:23:59] <Roman Danyliw/jabber> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc8418/, Use of the Elliptic Curve Diffie-Hellman Key Agreement Algorithm with X25519 and X448 in the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS)
[09:24:15] <dkg> Roman: that's not for signatures though
[09:24:49] <dkg> please do not encourage static-static (EC)DH
[09:26:11] <Roman Danyliw/jabber> @dkg, yes, but that was the referenced CURDLE doc though, no?
[09:26:35] <dkg> Rich: is there no CURDLE draft for signatures over 25519 and 448 ?
[09:27:15] <Roman Danyliw/jabber> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc8419/
[09:27:16] <Tadahiko Ito> I believe RSA OAEP is implemented in ICAO(passport), but apart from that, I have not see any.
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[09:27:42] <Russ Housley> RFC 8410 Algorithm Identifiers for Ed25519, Ed448, X25519, and X448
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[09:28:14] <Rich Salz> and rfc8419 for general edwards curves in sugnatures.  and yes, russ was right and i blanked.
[09:28:17] <dkg> Roman: yeah, 8419 looks like what this draft would want.
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[09:30:22] <Russ Housley> Yes, RFC 8410 and RFC 8419 use the same OIDs
[09:30:38] <Rich Salz> funny coincidence, that :)
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[09:33:02] <Deb Cooley> self signed = old signed w/ old?
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[09:34:31] <Russ Housley> @Deb: That is my understanding of the words he just said
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[09:39:05] <Deb Cooley> I think mcr is in RATS....
[09:39:16] <Alexey Melnikov> I would use "GET /.well-known/cmp", "GET /.well-known" is not valid
[09:39:22] <Fraser Tweedale> You can't use just ".well-known".
[09:39:27] <Fraser Tweedale> what Alexey said :)
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[09:40:06] <Alexey Melnikov> Feedback from mnot is a good idea
[09:40:13] <dkg> That's Mark Nottingham in particular for thinking about .well-known
[09:40:38] <Fraser Tweedale> There is an IANA registry of well-known paths - "cmp" (or whatever) will need to be registered: https://www.iana.org/assignments/well-known-uris/well-known-uris.xhtml
[09:41:07] <Alexey Melnikov> Indeed, if not already registered, it should be registered
[09:42:21] <Fraser Tweedale> I see IANA consideration is already in the draft
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[09:42:34] <Fraser Tweedale> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lamps-cmp-updates-06#section-3.3
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[09:45:53] <dkg> use a different TLS stack that implements TLS-SRP?  why does JSSE matter specifically?
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[09:48:11] <dkg> yep, but you're a bit quiet
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[09:56:44] <Hernâni Marques> That forwarded=no we do in pEp Message Format 2.1: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pep-email-01#page-18
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[10:10:34] <Alexey Melnikov> Right. Is there any case of one header field value depending on value of another header field?
[10:10:53] <Tim Hollebeek> I was trying to think of one, and failed.
[10:11:29] <Alexey Melnikov> I couldn't think of any other either, but maybe something related to reference building/threading.
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[10:11:48] <Alexey Melnikov> I would be happy with the answer "no".
[10:12:11] <Tim Hollebeek> I would too.  I think the HCP model probably has about the right amount of abstraction and generality.
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[10:12:36] <Alexey Melnikov> Yes, I find it very simple &amp; elegant
[10:12:54] <Marcus Brinkmann> sender enforced security policies are a good thing in general!
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[10:21:46] <Tim Hollebeek> perhaps encrypted subject headers could be encoded as "ILOVEYOU" instead of "[...]".  Just to mess with archaic virus scanners.
[10:21:58] <Hernâni Marques> xD
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[10:23:09] <Hernâni Marques> I think the "..." thing is -- most recently -- done as lang-agnostic approach; acc. to Patrick Brunschwing once engimail-users@.
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[10:26:54] <Phillip Hallam-Baker> I remember when one implementation gave a WARNING for a valid signature
[10:29:05] <Hernâni Marques> Nope, the other way around: please go on! :)
[10:29:06] <Bron Gondwana> user experience is kind of essential to things that will get used
[10:29:16] <Alexey Melnikov> +1
[10:30:03] <Marcus Brinkmann> I think it is a good idea to separate privacy concerns (header protection) from encryption/signing. Although there is overlap, they are different research fields.
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[10:32:05] <dkg> Marcus Brinkmann: i think those lines are pretty fuzzy -- but all the more reason to be as clear as possible about what we're talking about, so i agree that we should try to separate where possible.
[10:33:56] <Rich Salz> +1 to adopt
[10:37:35] <Rich Salz> jonathan did it all.
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[10:37:46] <Russ Housley> Thanks!
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[10:37:50] <Marcus Brinkmann> thank you
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[10:38:02] <Alexey Melnikov> Thank you
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