IETF
json@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, March 11, 2013< ^ >
Room Configuration
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[16:17:34] msk has set the subject to: JSON BoF at IETF 86
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[16:57:58] <mnotting> Is there anybody out there?
[16:58:04] <mnotting> Just nod if you can hear me...
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[17:01:19] Julian hears bg noise
[17:01:56] <msk> can people hear Joe?
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[17:02:03] <msk> (at home)
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[17:02:11] <PHB> MIT wants to change the shape of the brackets from {} to () any probs?
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[17:02:40] <msk> repeat: can anyone on the audio stream hear the room?
[17:02:47] <msk> is anyone on the audio stream?
[17:02:54] <Julian> yes
[17:03:00] <msk> Julian: can you hear?
[17:03:06] <Julian> yes, I do
[17:03:07] <mnotting> I can hear gentle, gentle murmuring
[17:03:13] <mnotting> oh, that's better
[17:03:19] <mnotting> still somewhat quiet, tho
[17:03:22] <msk> mnot: take off your soothing noises MP3
[17:03:26] <Julian> but as usually with lots of delay
[17:03:34] <msk> no meeting yet, just testing audio, not much to hear
[17:03:55] <PHB> Did you hear that?
[17:04:07] <PHB> They are fiddling with the slide deck
[17:04:18] <mnotting> he just welcomed
[17:04:20] <mnotting> how much lag?
[17:04:35] <PHB> (Welcome, Jeff Hodges is going to relay comments from the Jabber to the room)
[17:04:36] josephyee joins the room
[17:04:36] <msk> a few seconds
[17:04:37] <=JeffH> howdy
[17:04:39] <mnotting> cool
[17:04:49] <mnotting> jeff, if you could ask them to boost the gain, it would be appreciated.
[17:04:54] Karen O'Donoghue joins the room
[17:04:59] <msk> roger
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[17:05:01] <mnotting> Joe is not NEARLY as loud as experience shows us.
[17:05:29] <=JeffH> Brad Hill is going to relay jabber room
[17:05:39] <msk> thank you brad
[17:05:44] john.levine joins the room
[17:06:02] <=JeffH> it's easier for him to stand up w/machine
[17:06:20] <PHB> scribe: This is the JSON bof
[17:06:31] <PHB> scribe: NOTE WELL APPLIES
[17:06:42] <mnotting> "anything you say here may be used against you."
[17:07:06] <PHB> scribe: agenda bashing
[17:07:17] kazubu joins the room
[17:07:30] <PHB> scribe: Larry, there was a document a while about how to use XML, should there be one for this?
[17:07:52] <PHB> scribe: added to end of agenda
[17:08:47] sm joins the room
[17:09:19] <PHB> scribe: goals slide
[17:10:07] <PHB> scribe: scribe: Cyrus gives his talk
[17:10:48] resnick joins the room
[17:11:19] <PHB> scribe: we need to make the RFC proposed because we is building standards on it!
[17:12:18] <PHB> scribe: Changes, add in the existing erata
[17:12:36] <PHB> scribe: How to deal with duplicate object member names
[17:13:35] jjrh70 joins the room
[17:15:29] <PHB> scribe: Paul on difference between RFC and ECMA
[17:15:36] <hildjj> paul's audio ok?
[17:15:50] <mnotting> s'ok; could be a little bit louder, but not bad.
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[17:17:54] <Sean Turner> can I get a slide count on Paul's preso?
[17:18:03] <PHB> slide 3
[17:18:03] <msk> we're on 3
[17:18:08] <Sean Turner> thanks
[17:18:13] <msk> 4
[17:18:24] <PHB> Oh, did someone get sequestered in DC?
[17:18:30] <sm> Slide: comparing the grammars
[17:18:41] <Sean Turner> nope :)
[17:19:45] <PHB> scribe: Paul explaining that a JSON text is either a JSO text or an array in RFC, in ECMA it can be any valid JSON end token ('true')
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[17:22:04] <msk> silde 5
[17:22:06] <msk> slide
[17:22:15] <hildjj> schlide.
[17:24:16] Linlin Zhou joins the room
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[17:24:30] <Martin Thomson> The eval() text can be removed.
[17:24:31] vincent.levigneron joins the room
[17:25:02] <PHB> scribe: Jeff Hodges, RFC describes a serialized abstract object, ECMA is an object in memory
[17:25:25] tomek joins the room
[17:25:32] <hillbrad> another nit, the regex is now wrong in ES5: http://www.thespanner.co.uk/2011/07/25/the-json-specification-is-now-wrong/
[17:25:43] <PHB> scribe: Jeff has fiund instance =s of this leading to confusion
[17:26:15] m&m joins the room
[17:26:55] <Martin Thomson> the \u2029 problem is a real security issue for eval(), another reason not to use eval()
[17:27:40] zartash joins the room
[17:27:45] <PHB> scribe: Larry Masinter: they are making big changes to ECMA spec, should aim for the new one
[17:29:21] <hillbrad> and another set of security issues when using the regex to make a json text safe for eval: http://blog.mindedsecurity.com/2011/08/ye-olde-crockford-json-regexp-is.html
[17:29:32] <PHB> scribe: ACTION followup on liason with ECMA
[17:29:49] <PHB> scribe: Stefan, date and time?
[17:30:02] <PHB> scribe: Chair - is out of scope.
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[17:32:47] <PHB> scribe: John Levine: we are doing something different to ECMA, not a java data structure
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[17:33:41] <PHB> can someone scribe a mo?
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[17:34:19] <mnotting> who is talking with Paul?
[17:34:24] <msk> John Levine
[17:34:27] <mnotting> thx
[17:34:38] <hildjj> scribe: Paul says that 15.12.1 stands alone
[17:35:34] <hildjj> scribe: John Levine says we need to be language-agnostic in 4627bis
[17:36:15] zartash joins the room
[17:36:52] <hildjj> scribe: jeff says that 4627 should only imply a parser.
[17:38:59] <hildjj> scribe: PHB says that there should be exactly one way of representing dates.
[17:39:08] <mnotting> ... and I should be rich.
[17:39:35] <hildjj> scribe: eliot lear says that this is how things get away from us.  scope creep.
[17:39:37] <resnick> ...and I want a pony
[17:39:49] <mnotting> hmm.... pony. Tasty.
[17:40:23] <PHB> scribe: chair says that this is out of scope but could be further work
[17:41:03] <PHB> Pete: you are going to have exactly one date format in each protocol
[17:41:18] <PHB> Pete: what I would like to do is to have that argument once rather than in every group
[17:41:27] <bortzmeyer> THere is RFC 3339 Do we need more?
[17:41:30] <PHB> scribe: Jim Schadd on security
[17:42:08] <PHB> scribe: Jim arguing for names MUST be unique
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[17:43:27] <PHB> scribe: What does well defined JSON look like? should leading trailing whitespace be allowed? trailling garbage??
[17:43:45] <PHB> scribe: what to do when we have errors
[17:45:40] <PHB> scribe: Jim tries to convince us to like Canonicalization
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[17:48:45] <PHB> scribe: canonicalization and send is good / Mutual canonicalization is problematic.
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[17:52:06] <PHB> scribe: backwards compatibility issue
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[17:53:41] <Sean Turner> btw - +1 to what Jim said
[17:54:52] <=JeffH> you mean jim schaad ?
[17:55:09] <Sean Turner> yes I was a little late to plus 1 because I needed to reboot
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[17:55:36] <=JeffH> u have AD hat on? u want said at mic ?
[17:55:43] <Sean Turner> nah
[17:55:46] <=JeffH> k
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[17:56:03] <Sean Turner> as long as it could be follow on I'm good
[17:56:08] <PHB> scribe: discussion of the meaning of backwards compatibility
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[17:56:29] <wilton@jabber.isoc.org> Apologies if this is a dumb question, but what is the intended scope of "unique" for the names within an object, as defined in 4627?
[17:57:47] <jimsch> With in a single set of braces - not counting sub fields.  I.e {"a":"b", "a":"c"} but not {"a":"b", "b":{"a":"c"}}
[17:58:01] <wilton@jabber.isoc.org> OK - thanks Jim
[17:58:02] <PHB> scribe: variations on saying that backwards compatibility means 'don't break something if it is currently compliant'
[17:58:04] <jimsch> s/sub fields/subobjects/
[17:58:14] <barryleiba> Put another way, if the JSON Pointer name would be the same, that's bad.
[17:59:28] <wilton@jabber.isoc.org> Right… but uniqueness can, in principle, be determined without reference to a "registry" of names - that's what I wanted to check. Thx
[18:00:10] <PHB> scribe: charter text
[18:00:41] <PHB> scribe; paul pointing out that maybe some mention of ECMAscript should be there
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[18:05:15] <PHB> scribe: Crocker word tweak: very strong explanation and justification
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[18:08:02] <PHB> scribe: Jeff Hodges proposes some polish
[18:08:13] <PHB> scribe: chairs suggest he send text
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[18:13:23] <PHB> scribe: Jim Jose would like a standards doc!
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[18:13:37] <PHB> scribe: barry - it is in the downrefs repository
[18:14:07] <PHB> scribe: Larry - yep but better to have one standards track doc than two neither of which are right
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[18:18:13] <kewisch> is there a webex entry point for the current meeting or similar, or just the audio feed?
[18:18:30] <PHB> just audio
[18:18:38] <PHB> (as far as I know)
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[18:22:31] <PHB> scribe: who is willing to do stuff
[18:22:48] <PHB> scribe: large numbers for each apart from implementation...
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[18:23:09] <PHB> scribe: end
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[18:32:32] <kewisch> I must have missed some bits of the discussion, was anything from jcardcal discussed in the json BoF or was it solely about the json format itself?
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