Thursday, March 11, 2021< ^ >
Jim Fenton too has set the subject to: jmap @ IETF 108 30 July 2020
Room Configuration
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[16:02:39] <Kenneth Murchison_web_162> sleepy neil
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[16:05:26] <Bron Gondwana_web_581> yeah, it's good to wake up an extra 30 min before and do some pushups or something to wake up :p
[16:06:05] <Bron Gondwana_web_581> star jumps!
[16:07:09] <Alexey Melnikov_web_259> :-D
[16:07:34] <Alexey Melnikov_web_259> Neil sounds like he has a sore throat. I hope it is just because he is not awake.
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[16:15:01] <Murray Kucherawy_web_883> I empathize.
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[16:22:42] <Jim Fenton_web_587> Does anyone know of task lists that support tasks in multiple lists?
[16:23:58] <Kenneth Murchison_web_728> The two apps that I use do not
[16:24:44] <Jim Fenton_web_587> Mine either, and I think that might inform the decision on this
[16:42:58] <Alexey Melnikov_web_259> Bron, you can do a poll :-)
[16:43:11] <Alexey Melnikov_web_259> I am +1 for adopting
[16:49:28] <Bron Gondwana_web_581> @Alexey yeah, I don't know that a poll is necessary, but thanks for the reminder
[16:51:12] <Alexey Melnikov_web_259> I sort of can see a weak argument for keeping order for what is on the slide
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[16:58:36] <Barry Leiba_web_412> "sorting of some sort"... love it.
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[17:00:47] <Jim Fenton_web_587> From Knuth: "He was sort of out of sorts after sorting that sort of data."
[17:02:03] <Kenneth Murchison_web_728> @Jim nice quote
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[17:08:31] <Bron Gondwana_web_692> no idea what happened there - I got reset
[17:09:15] <Kenneth Murchison_web_728> same happened to me earlier, when i my audio was cut off mid sentence
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[17:17:08] <Kenneth Murchison_web_728> +1 to deferring on address structure pending further info
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[17:17:59] <Alexey Melnikov_web_270> Do addresses work in China? I have a couple of Chinese friends
[17:18:07] <Alexey Melnikov_web_270> ... active in IETF
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[17:18:43] <Bron Gondwana_web_692> @Alexey if you can ask them, that would be great
[17:19:05] <Barry Leiba_web_412> The Chinese addresses seem to lend themselves to adapting to the structure, even if that structure isn't ideal.
[17:19:41] <Barry Leiba_web_412> They have "districts" and such, but they stuff them into other fields.
[17:19:42] <Kenneth Murchison_web_728> IIRC, the ISO effort is being driven by trying to improve that
[17:19:55] <Barry Leiba_web_412> Ken: right
[17:21:04] <Barry Leiba_web_412> The same sort of thing goes for names, but it's harder to munge them.  Iceland, for example, does not traditionally have family names; they only have a patronymic.  In Burma, it's common to have only one name (Nu, or Thant).
[17:21:53] <Barry Leiba_web_412> Registerable "type" names will help.
[17:22:10] <Jim Fenton_web_587> And Icelandic women typically use a matronymic.
[17:22:12] <Barry Leiba_web_412> But "surname" doesn't always make sense.
[17:22:13] <Alexey Melnikov_web_270> Is it Mr Robert Stepanek or Stepanek Mr Robert
[17:22:42] <Barry Leiba_web_412> Jim: AIUI, not "typically"; it depends upon the prominence of the mother in question.
[17:22:55] <Jim Fenton_web_587> could be
[17:23:24] <Alexey Melnikov_web_270> What Neil said
[17:23:56] <Barry Leiba_web_412> And how might, say, rap singers create their name components?
[17:24:39] <Alexey Melnikov_web_270> Not to mention the collation order!
[17:24:52] <Barry Leiba_web_412> Would one sort Queen Latifah under Q, or L, or D (Dana), or O (Owens)?
[17:25:21] <Jim Fenton_web_587> I hope we don't have to deal with whether McDougall goes under M or D
[17:26:07] <Barry Leiba_web_412> We might.  I had a Swiss manager at IBM, Jürg von Känel.  His surname is "von Känel", sort under "k".
[17:26:48] <Jim Fenton_web_587> That's a better example. IIRC it can depend on whether the V is capitalized or not.
[17:26:50] <Barry Leiba_web_412> Related are names such as David ben Gurion.
[17:27:21] <Barry Leiba_web_412> And then there are the Spanish names.
[17:27:40] <Jim Fenton_web_587> and Islamic
[17:28:02] <Barry Leiba_web_412> Consider Penélope Cruz Sánchez, sort as "Cruz".
[17:30:05] <Kenneth Murchison_web_728> Barry: any existing WG that we can draw on for expertise?
[17:30:28] <Barry Leiba_web_412> Not that I'm aware of.  We usually pass this stuff to implementations and localization.
[17:30:58] <Barry Leiba_web_412> The trouble comes when a protocol makes assumptions about what names look like, or what addresses look like.  Those assumptions are always wrong sometimes.
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[17:39:34] <Alexey Melnikov_web_270> Makes sense
[17:39:39] <Alexey Melnikov_web_270> In response to Ken
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[17:56:17] <Kenneth Murchison_web_728> bye all!
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