[11:05:22] chi.jiun.su joins the room
[11:40:45] jmagallanes leaves the room
[11:40:46] jmagallanes joins the room
[13:15:46] brockners joins the room
[13:28:12] brockners leaves the room
[13:59:28] Meetecho joins the room
[14:00:01] Mach Chen joins the room
[14:00:01] Rick Alfvin joins the room
[14:00:01] Ian Swett joins the room
[14:00:01] Justin Iurman joins the room
[14:00:01] Dawei Fan joins the room
[14:00:01] Tobia Castaldi joins the room
[14:00:01] Mauro Cociglio joins the room
[14:00:01] Massimo Nilo joins the room
[14:00:01] Ekaterina Volodina joins the room
[14:00:01] Yali Wang joins the room
[14:00:01] Christine McCarthy joins the room
[14:00:01] Tommy Pauly joins the room
[14:00:01] Alessandro Toppi joins the room
[14:00:01] Rakesh Gandhi joins the room
[14:00:01] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[14:00:10] Robin Marx joins the room
[14:00:16] Anant Shah joins the room
[14:00:45] Al Morton joins the room
[14:01:35] Tal Mizrahi joins the room
[14:01:42] Greg Mirsky joins the room
[14:01:50] alex-meetecho joins the room
[14:02:10] Tianran Zhou joins the room
[14:02:26] Frank Brockners joins the room
[14:03:16] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[14:03:19] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[14:03:33] Simon Leinen joins the room
[14:03:34] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[14:03:40] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[14:03:41] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[14:03:41] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[14:03:55] Xiao Min joins the room
[14:03:56] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[14:04:10] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[14:04:39] Frode Sorensen joins the room
[14:04:43] Rick Taylor joins the room
[14:04:55] Mirja Kühlewind joins the room
[14:05:11] <Tommy Pauly> https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-108-ippm?both
[14:05:21] Shogo Asaba joins the room
[14:05:22] Xiao Min leaves the room
[14:06:09] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[14:06:15] Dawei Fan leaves the room
[14:06:33] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[14:06:37] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[14:06:37] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[14:06:37] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[14:06:37] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[14:06:38] Dawei Fan joins the room
[14:06:51] José Alvarez-Hamelin joins the room
[14:07:00] Xiao Min joins the room
[14:07:19] brockners joins the room
[14:07:36] Richard Foote joins the room
[14:07:59] Kyle Ouellette joins the room
[14:08:04] Anant Shah leaves the room
[14:08:07] Barak Gafni joins the room
[14:08:10] Anant Shah joins the room
[14:08:22] Marco Häberle joins the room
[14:08:27] Andre Bondi joins the room
[14:08:37] Paul Congdon joins the room
[14:08:55] <Simon Leinen> ^ I'll help Mirja with the notetaking
[14:09:00] Haoyu Song joins the room
[14:09:01] <Mirja Kühlewind> thanks!
[14:09:09] <Tommy Pauly> Thanks very much to both of you!
[14:09:12] <Simon Leinen> But only if I can hear anything! (right now there's silence?? :-)
[14:09:35] Martin Duke joins the room
[14:09:37] <Mirja Kühlewind> Brian will join the session in about half an hour ;-)
[14:09:49] <Mirja Kühlewind> yes, session starts in 1 minute
[14:10:15] <Tommy Pauly> Can you hear now?
[14:10:21] Cheng Zhou joins the room
[14:10:22] <Mirja Kühlewind> I can
[14:10:24] <Simon Leinen> Yes, thanks
[14:10:25] Nick Banks joins the room
[14:10:34] Fabio Bulgarella joins the room
[14:10:40] Dawei Fan leaves the room
[14:10:40] Dawei Fan joins the room
[14:10:41] Ramesh Sivakolundu joins the room
[14:10:56] Dawei Fan leaves the room
[14:10:58] Dawei Fan joins the room
[14:11:19] Igor Lubashev joins the room
[14:11:34] Reshad Rahman joins the room
[14:11:37] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[14:11:39] Gorry Fairhurst joins the room
[14:11:40] Marten Seemann joins the room
[14:11:41] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[14:11:43] Yuji Tochio joins the room
[14:13:05] Luis Contreras joins the room
[14:13:45] Shwetha Bhandari joins the room
[14:14:12] Dave Sinicrope joins the room
[14:14:47] Dawei Fan leaves the room
[14:15:43] Alexandra Kelly joins the room
[14:15:48] Igor Lubashev leaves the room
[14:16:08] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[14:16:21] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[14:16:21] Rakesh Gandhi leaves the room
[14:16:25] Rakesh Gandhi joins the room
[14:16:40] Mickey Spiegel joins the room
[14:18:18] Pascal Thubert joins the room
[14:18:53] Andre Bondi leaves the room
[14:20:43] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[14:20:54] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[14:22:54] Magnus Westerlund joins the room
[14:23:21] Magnus Westerlund too joins the room
[14:26:11] William Jensen joins the room
[14:27:35] Shwetha Bhandari leaves the room
[14:27:38] Shwetha Bhandari joins the room
[14:28:02] <Martin Duke> So Al is there any way for capacity measurement to occur with passive or hybrid methods, or does it pretty much have to be active?
[14:28:17] Shunwan Zhuang joins the room
[14:29:17] Shunwan Zhuang leaves the room
[14:29:53] Richard Vallee joins the room
[14:30:07] Brian Trammell joins the room
[14:30:23] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[14:30:31] Richard Vallee joins the room
[14:30:47] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[14:30:56] Richard Vallee joins the room
[14:31:00] <José Alvarez-Hamelin> Normally it is active, if not you need to see the traffic, but you cannot control the experiment
[14:31:06] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[14:31:13] Richard Vallee joins the room
[14:31:22] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[14:31:25] Richard Vallee joins the room
[14:31:55] Dragana Damjanovic joins the room
[14:31:58] <Martin Duke> yeah i have trouble seeing how you could conclude anything except perhaps a provisional min value
[14:32:03] Giuseppe Fioccola joins the room
[14:32:30] <José Alvarez-Hamelin> You can do other thinkg, but is not capacity measurement.
[14:32:42] Dragana Damjanovic leaves the room
[14:33:13] <José Alvarez-Hamelin> It could be some traffic measurement (we discuss a little in the list, but some work in needed in that direction)
[14:33:55] <Brian Trammell> you *can* tell when a link is at capacity if you assume it will build queues before dropping
[14:34:02] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[14:34:52] <Brian Trammell> (i'm in codimd and can help with notes too)
[14:36:04] <José Alvarez-Hamelin> Well, I did some work with that, you can check this proyect: https://github.com/TiX-measurements
[14:36:55] <José Alvarez-Hamelin> I am interested to bring this work here, but some critical mass is needed to star...
[14:37:43] <José Alvarez-Hamelin> start ()sorry
[14:38:05] <Al Morton> @Martin: I think that if you can see all the info necessary to make an accurate Passive measurement, like individual queue occupation in small time periods, you shoudl also know the provisioned capacity, over-booking, etc.
[14:38:22] Dave Sinicrope leaves the room
[14:38:25] Shwetha Bhandari leaves the room
[14:38:27] Shwetha Bhandari joins the room
[14:38:37] <Al Morton> Also, all the Ad-hoc methods we try to supplant are Active.
[14:38:42] Shwetha Bhandari leaves the room
[14:39:13] Shwetha Bhandari joins the room
[14:39:28] <José Alvarez-Hamelin> (it is a top-show!)
[14:41:11] Igor Lubashev joins the room
[14:43:26] Bhavit Shah joins the room
[14:45:40] Rick Taylor leaves the room
[14:47:40] Andre Bondi joins the room
[14:49:04] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[14:49:07] <Martin Duke> I have done nothing
[14:49:10] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[14:49:52] Rick Taylor joins the room
[14:50:07] Chris Box joins the room
[14:51:36] Anant Shah leaves the room
[14:56:37] Richard Vallee joins the room
[14:56:44] Gorry Fairhurst leaves the room
[14:57:09] Gorry Fairhurst joins the room
[14:57:55] Jari Arkko joins the room
[14:59:22] Korian Edeline joins the room
[14:59:24] <José Alvarez-Hamelin> I was talking about hum tool.
[14:59:36] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[14:59:36] Richard Vallee joins the room
[15:00:01] Shwetha Bhandari leaves the room
[15:00:52] Tal Mizrahi leaves the room
[15:00:52] Liu Aihua joins the room
[15:00:55] Mach Chen leaves the room
[15:01:10] Mach Chen joins the room
[15:01:12] Ramesh Sivakolundu leaves the room
[15:01:43] Ramesh Sivakolundu joins the room
[15:02:46] Pascal Thubert leaves the room
[15:04:19] Fabio Bulgarella leaves the room
[15:04:22] Fabio Bulgarella joins the room
[15:05:40] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[15:05:57] Richard Vallee joins the room
[15:06:09] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[15:06:10] Richard Vallee joins the room
[15:06:37] Barbara Stark joins the room
[15:07:18] Fabio Bulgarella leaves the room
[15:07:24] Fabio Bulgarella joins the room
[15:08:31] Xiao Min leaves the room
[15:08:32] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[15:08:35] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[15:08:46] Barbara Stark leaves the room
[15:08:52] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[15:08:55] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[15:08:56] Xiao Min joins the room
[15:09:04] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[15:09:04] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[15:10:16] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[15:10:21] Richard Vallee joins the room
[15:10:50] Juan Cerezo joins the room
[15:12:42] Liu Aihua leaves the room
[15:13:28] Qin Wu joins the room
[15:13:32] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[15:13:34] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[15:14:44] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[15:14:53] Richard Vallee joins the room
[15:15:42] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[15:15:45] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[15:16:36] Yisong Liu joins the room
[15:17:07] Andre Bondi leaves the room
[15:17:53] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[15:17:56] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[15:18:23] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[15:18:25] Richard Vallee joins the room
[15:18:30] <Jari Arkko> If the user defaults in browsers are such an issue then maybe we need to reconsider the fine browsers who give us centralized DNS resolvers by default :-) There's no credible leak of information from measurements such as this, in contrast to some of these other arrangements. But my real comment is that FWIW I've been working on these measurements and we're quite happy to see more measurements and different types of measurements. So count me as working on this topic, if it matters to see several people who put their time to code things like this.
[15:18:30] Robin Marx leaves the room
[15:19:17] <Massimo Nilo> +1 to what Jari said
[15:19:21] Marten Seemann leaves the room
[15:19:53] Chris Box leaves the room
[15:20:14] james welch joins the room
[15:20:28] Qin Wu leaves the room
[15:20:48] Qin Wu joins the room
[15:21:38] <Massimo Nilo> A little note: In the notes, the name is Mauro, not marco :)
[15:22:04] Craig Taylor joins the room
[15:22:58] Greg Mirsky leaves the room
[15:22:58] Cheng Zhou leaves the room
[15:23:01] Cheng Zhou joins the room
[15:23:01] Greg Mirsky joins the room
[15:23:07] Kyle Ouellette leaves the room
[15:23:08] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[15:23:13] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[15:23:28] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[15:23:32] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[15:23:46] <Tommy Pauly> @Massimo fixed in the notes
[15:24:27] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[15:24:27] Richard Vallee joins the room
[15:25:08] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[15:25:09] Richard Vallee joins the room
[15:25:24] <Martin Duke> @jari I am personally comfortable with the information leakage here, but I am attempting to channel IETF LC arguments before we commit to a bunch of work on this
[15:26:23] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[15:26:25] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[15:26:26] james welch leaves the room
[15:27:52] <Mirja Kühlewind> mauro sorry... typing quickly but you can edit there yourself
[15:30:36] <Massimo Nilo> @Tommy, thanks
[15:30:47] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[15:31:33] Richard Vallee joins the room
[15:31:47] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[15:31:47] Richard Vallee joins the room
[15:32:02] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[15:32:15] Richard Vallee joins the room
[15:32:21] Brian Trammell leaves the room
[15:32:32] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[15:32:36] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[15:32:47] <Jari Arkko> @martin yes but we need to apply the same yeardsticks in the IETF. We don't always do that. But, I think we actually agree on this topic technically. I think the real issues on measurements are not so much about information leakage but rather how many bits, how many types of measurements, how we deal with future innovations, etc. That being said, we've had pretty good success with experimental version numbers for specific experiements, but that obviously goes only so far -- what to do when we want large deployments is the question. I predict some evolution and innovation in this space in the future. Just Mauro and the team themselves have had a ton of ideas. Probably more to come, plus from everyone else!
[15:33:01] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[15:33:04] Richard Vallee joins the room
[15:33:05] james welch joins the room
[15:34:26] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[15:34:28] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[15:35:06] james welch leaves the room
[15:35:08] james welch joins the room
[15:35:13] <Greg Mirsky> @Tommy, could you please kick me out of mic?
[15:35:24] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[15:35:25] <Tommy Pauly> @Greg done
[15:35:26] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[15:35:33] james welch leaves the room
[15:35:36] james welch joins the room
[15:35:39] <Tommy Pauly> I think you can stop yourself by hitting the square icon mic button
[15:38:36] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[15:38:39] Yunbin Xu joins the room
[15:38:53] Richard Vallee leaves the room
[15:40:41] Jari Arkko leaves the room
[15:40:41] james welch leaves the room
[15:40:43] james welch joins the room
[15:41:17] <Simon Leinen> Sorry about misspelling Mauro's name, I think that was me not Mirja.
[15:42:23] Bhavit Shah leaves the room
[15:46:06] Korian Edeline leaves the room
[15:46:45] Igor Lubashev leaves the room
[15:47:01] james welch leaves the room
[15:47:03] james welch joins the room
[15:47:31] Barak Gafni leaves the room
[15:48:49] Yisong Liu leaves the room
[15:49:16] Qin Wu leaves the room
[15:50:16] Ekaterina Volodina leaves the room
[15:51:34] Paul Congdon leaves the room
[15:51:35] <Mirja Kühlewind> Thanks Tommy! Thanks all!
[15:51:39] Richard Foote leaves the room
[15:51:43] <Mirja Kühlewind> Thanks Ian as well!
[15:51:43] Nick Banks leaves the room
[15:51:49] <Al Morton> Thanks note takers!
[15:51:52] William Jensen leaves the room
[15:51:52] Reshad Rahman leaves the room
[15:51:53] <José Alvarez-Hamelin> Thanks!
[15:51:53] Ramesh Sivakolundu leaves the room
[15:51:54] Haoyu Song leaves the room
[15:51:54] Rick Taylor leaves the room
[15:51:55] Marco Häberle leaves the room
[15:51:55] Yuji Tochio leaves the room
[15:51:55] Martin Duke leaves the room
[15:51:56] Xiao Min leaves the room
[15:51:57] Greg Mirsky leaves the room
[15:52:00] <Tianran Zhou> see you
[15:52:01] <Mirja Kühlewind> See you online somewhere sometime
[15:52:04] Tianran Zhou leaves the room
[15:52:05] Ian Swett leaves the room
[15:52:06] <Tommy Pauly> Yes, thanks to the note takers!
[15:52:09] Magnus Westerlund leaves the room
[15:52:10] Mickey Spiegel leaves the room
[15:52:12] Tommy Pauly leaves the room
[15:52:14] Christine McCarthy leaves the room
[15:52:15] Simon Leinen leaves the room
[15:52:17] Rakesh Gandhi leaves the room
[15:52:27] Al Morton leaves the room
[15:52:34] Mach Chen leaves the room
[15:52:35] Craig Taylor leaves the room
[15:52:41] Massimo Nilo leaves the room
[15:52:43] Rick Alfvin leaves the room
[15:52:48] Alessandro Toppi leaves the room
[15:52:48] Mirja Kühlewind leaves the room
[15:52:48] Yali Wang leaves the room
[15:52:48] Mauro Cociglio leaves the room
[15:52:48] José Alvarez-Hamelin leaves the room
[15:52:48] Yunbin Xu leaves the room
[15:52:48] Gorry Fairhurst leaves the room
[15:52:48] Juan Cerezo leaves the room
[15:52:48] Giuseppe Fioccola leaves the room
[15:52:48] Tobia Castaldi leaves the room
[15:52:48] Fabio Bulgarella leaves the room
[15:52:48] Luis Contreras leaves the room
[15:52:48] Cheng Zhou leaves the room
[15:52:48] Justin Iurman leaves the room
[15:52:48] Frank Brockners leaves the room
[15:52:48] james welch leaves the room
[15:52:48] Shogo Asaba leaves the room
[15:52:48] Alexandra Kelly leaves the room
[15:52:48] Frode Sorensen leaves the room
[15:52:50] Meetecho leaves the room
[15:53:15] brockners joins the room
[15:54:15] brockners leaves the room
[15:58:06] alex-meetecho leaves the room
[16:14:30] Magnus Westerlund too leaves the room
[16:18:31] jmagallanes leaves the room
[16:26:48] jmagallanes joins the room
[16:27:30] jmagallanes leaves the room
[16:33:52] brockners leaves the room
[19:09:25] chi.jiun.su leaves the room
[19:51:14] chi.jiun.su joins the room
[19:52:14] chi.jiun.su leaves the room