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ippm
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Friday, March 27, 2015< ^ >
Joseph has set the subject to: IPPM Working Group
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[12:46:16] Meetecho joins the room
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[13:52:48] Peter DeVries joins the room
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[14:03:51] <Peter DeVries> I'm scribing if anyone remote has questions.  
[14:03:57] <Peter DeVries> Discussing finished docs
[14:05:01] <Peter DeVries> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/92/slides/slides-92-ippm-9.pdf
[14:05:08] <Peter DeVries> WG Document status
[14:06:19] <Peter DeVries> Transport Area Open Meeting
[14:07:46] <Peter DeVries> Agenda bashing
[14:08:19] <Peter DeVries> checksum-trailer, any last comments otherwise no discussion needed
[14:09:20] <Peter DeVries> ippm-type-p-monitor
[14:09:34] <Peter DeVries> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/92/slides/slides-92-ippm-1.pdf
[14:10:04] <Peter DeVries> Status only, will start WG last call soon
[14:10:38] <Peter DeVries> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/92/slides/slides-92-ippm-8.pdf
[14:10:42] <Peter DeVries> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/92/slides/slides-92-ippm-8.pdf
[14:11:06] <Rob Hamilton> hummmmm
[14:11:15] Rob Hamilton leaves the room
[14:11:35] Rob Hamilton joins the room
[14:12:15] <Peter DeVries> Modifications in V02
[14:14:57] <Peter DeVries> slide: Open Issues
[14:15:47] Conrad Sanders joins the room
[14:15:53] <Peter DeVries> Believe whole registry should be available in CSV
[14:16:29] <Peter DeVries> Don't believe a schema needs to be defined for that file
[14:16:40] <Peter DeVries> Barbara Stark
[14:16:48] <Peter DeVries> apologizes if I spell names wrong
[14:18:27] <Peter DeVries> would like to define parameters  
[14:18:57] Greg White joins the room
[14:19:07] Conrad Sanders leaves the room
[14:19:11] <Peter DeVries> discussion if that is feasible or how much effort it would take.  
[14:19:29] <Peter DeVries> al morton
[14:19:59] <Peter DeVries> Thanks for including in a future version a URL
[14:20:27] <Peter DeVries> fixed parameters are fixed for one metric
[14:20:34] Rob Hamilton leaves the room
[14:20:59] <Peter DeVries> next steps - 16th of April should have new version.  Should be WG LC at that point.
[14:21:12] Rob Hamilton joins the room
[14:21:13] Conrad Sanders joins the room
[14:21:29] <Peter DeVries> Al Morton - would be worth looking at the first performance metrics that will populate this.
[14:22:10] Conrad Sanders leaves the room
[14:22:38] <Peter DeVries> Barbara S at mic - format is great - reading is about IANA registry - Other than one term about primary registries there is no mention of other registries using the same format
[14:23:00] Rob Hamilton leaves the room
[14:23:08] <Peter DeVries> change other places where it implies only IANA
[14:23:23] <Peter DeVries> Done with that slide
[14:23:36] <Peter DeVries> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/92/slides/slides-92-ippm-7.pdf
[14:24:37] <Peter DeVries> Marcelo at mic - believes this is on time.  No special concerns right now.
[14:24:38] Conrad Sanders joins the room
[14:25:05] <Peter DeVries> Slide: outline
[14:25:23] <Peter DeVries> slide: document changes
[14:25:55] <Peter DeVries> believe this is ready for WGLC
[14:26:13] <Peter DeVries> slide: Required Network Props
[14:26:42] Rob Hamilton joins the room
[14:27:03] <Peter DeVries> Any issues before WGLC
[14:27:12] Conrad Sanders leaves the room
[14:28:06] <Peter DeVries> will start LC on this after IP monitor
[14:28:30] Facultad de Ingenieria joins the room
[14:28:37] <Peter DeVries> will be 3 week WGLC
[14:29:08] <Peter DeVries> Al Morton - did we get rid of alternate statistical … Yes
[14:29:21] <Peter DeVries> slide: the bigger picture
[14:29:36] <Peter DeVries> slide: Part 2: Why ...
[14:29:45] <Peter DeVries> slide: Typical 1990s.....
[14:30:36] <Peter DeVries> slide: The NSF Drafts….
[14:30:37] Facultad de  Ingenieria leaves the room
[14:31:23] <Peter DeVries> slide: 1993 Whiteboard….
[14:32:18] <Peter DeVries> slide: But we knew ....
[14:32:57] <Peter DeVries> slide: A performance SLA
[14:33:40] <Peter DeVries> slide: IPPM wanted an algebra....
[14:34:09] <Peter DeVries> slide: Measurement issues...
[14:34:18] Colo Rado joins the room
[14:34:29] <Peter DeVries> slide: Other deep problems
[14:35:19] <Peter DeVries> slide: Better TCPs change the problem
[14:36:29] <Peter DeVries> slide: Model based metrics
[14:37:27] <Peter DeVries> slide: And suddenly....
[14:38:04] <Peter DeVries> slide: Is this work of interest
[14:38:17] <Peter DeVries> Question: does this work belong here, any interest
[14:38:43] <Peter DeVries> mic: Al Morton - willing to be co-author
[14:39:31] <Peter DeVries> would like to also examine where AQM is not a requirement
[14:40:49] <Peter DeVries> mic: Brian Trammel (no hat)
[14:42:44] <Facultad de Ingenieria> Why measure "clean" network properties? The important thing to measure is user experience, that is, the performance the user gets in normal network sharing conditions.
[14:43:00] <Peter DeVries> If we are going to go forward with new forms of encapsulation.  It would be useful to test this same method
[14:43:30] <Peter DeVries> will ask
[14:43:34] <Peter DeVries> line at Mic
[14:44:36] <Peter DeVries> care about high throughput becasue you want low latency
[14:45:34] <Peter DeVries> think some people shopping for network capacity have choosen to use microwave rather than fiber for low latency
[14:48:24] <Peter DeVries> to the question in the room
[14:48:35] <Peter DeVries> this is true but QOE metrics are hard to define and measure
[14:49:10] <Peter DeVries> need to measure at both levels and do the science for how they compare
[14:49:34] <Peter DeVries> mic - Al Morton - plan to do here is to measure network performance vs higher stack performance
[14:51:16] <Peter DeVries> discussion of the layers of performance metrics
[14:52:00] <Peter DeVries> who thinks this doesn't fit?  None
[14:52:40] <Peter DeVries> Chair - fits nicely in the charter
[14:53:07] <Peter DeVries> draft will be forthcoming
[14:53:25] <Peter DeVries> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/92/slides/slides-92-ippm-4.pdf
[14:54:31] <Peter DeVries> slide: Motiviation
[14:55:20] <Peter DeVries> slide: YANG + NETCONF....
[14:55:50] <Peter DeVries> slide: Summary
[14:57:07] <Peter DeVries> slide: UML Classes for Control-Client
[15:00:00] <Peter DeVries> slide: UML Classes (2)
[15:00:53] <Peter DeVries> slide: Tree view
[15:01:31] <Peter DeVries> slide: Next Steps
[15:02:00] <Peter DeVries> mic - Greg Mersky
[15:02:21] <Peter DeVries> would like WG to discuss if TWAMP lite needs to be modelled or if it is a separate effort
[15:02:38] <Peter DeVries> mic - Rich .. - Would agree with above statement
[15:03:54] <Peter DeVries> Discussion on what needs to change between TWAMP and TWAMP lite
[15:07:14] Facultad de Ingenieria leaves the room
[15:07:36] <Peter DeVries> discussion will move to list
[15:10:16] <Peter DeVries> reviewers?
[15:11:00] <Peter DeVries> anyone opposed to this in this WG?
[15:11:20] <Peter DeVries> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/92/slides/slides-92-ippm-5.pdf
[15:11:38] <Peter DeVries> slide: Problem Statement
[15:12:58] <Peter DeVries> slide: Updates to Control Protocols
[15:13:57] <Peter DeVries> slide: Update to Test Protocols
[15:14:52] <Peter DeVries> slide: TWAMP Light Consideration
[15:15:01] Facultad de Ingenieria joins the room
[15:15:01] <Peter DeVries> slide: Next Steps
[15:15:29] <Peter DeVries> mic: Al Morton - think you only need one flag
[15:15:56] <Peter DeVries> ntp is mandatory already.  
[15:17:11] <Peter DeVries> mic: Matt Mathis
[15:17:30] <Peter DeVries> Make sure language of Update to Test Protocols is normative
[15:17:51] <Peter DeVries> mic: Al Morton - can choose to do a partial implementation
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[15:18:52] <Peter DeVries> mic: Matt M - always permissible to update an old std to make a required field optional
[15:19:15] <Peter DeVries> Al - not what we are talking about here.
[15:21:11] <Peter DeVries> taking discussion to list
[15:21:19] <Peter DeVries> mic - Al Morton - worth doing at 1 bit.
[15:21:29] <Peter DeVries> only have 32 bits so we need to be judicious
[15:22:03] <Peter DeVries> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/92/slides/slides-92-ippm-3.pdf
[15:22:14] <Peter DeVries> slide: Update
[15:22:48] <Peter DeVries> slide: Passive Measurement Methods and Metrics
[15:24:40] <Peter DeVries> slide: Hybrid Measurements Methods
[15:25:01] <Peter DeVries> mic - how do we intend to make that work when the header is sealed and payload is encrypted
[15:25:55] <Peter DeVries> mic - Matt Mathis
[15:26:52] <Peter DeVries> mic (didn't catch name) - encryption comment - depending on what is being used some headers are not encrypted
[15:28:40] <Peter DeVries> discussion deferred
[15:28:43] <Peter DeVries> slide: Next Steps
[15:29:21] <Peter DeVries> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/92/slides/slides-92-ippm-6.pdf
[15:30:09] <Peter DeVries> slide: We* didn't start the fire...
[15:31:16] <Peter DeVries> slide: Words and Meaning
[15:31:53] <Peter DeVries> slide: Definitions
[15:33:15] <Peter DeVries> slide: Reviews, Comments, Support
[15:33:52] jeferson.nobre leaves the room
[15:35:03] <Peter DeVries> slide: Original −00 Classifications: 2 Dimensions
[15:35:43] <Peter DeVries> slide: On to classificiations: 2 Dimensions
[15:36:49] <Peter DeVries> slide: More dimensions
[15:39:23] <Peter DeVries> mic: Matt Mathis
[15:40:21] <Peter DeVries> slide: Two Classifications Discussed
[15:41:14] <Peter DeVries> slide: Next Steps
[15:41:59] <Peter DeVries> call for adoption
[15:42:11] <Peter DeVries> 10 or so read the draft
[15:44:03] <Peter DeVries> mic: Matt Mathis - Lots of stuff her with potential for hair splitting
[15:44:18] <Peter DeVries> some pieces may not be necessary (section 4)
[15:44:51] <Peter DeVries> mic - Greg - would like to discuss mergining docs before adopting
[15:45:11] <Peter DeVries> Not enough people in the room have read it to make that call.
[15:45:54] <Peter DeVries> chair would prefer to adopt the one that has gotten more readership and then add from the other document as needed
[15:46:44] <Peter DeVries> mic (noname) - like the proposal of adopting 1.  Likes the current draft, all definitions need to be defined.
[15:48:37] <Peter DeVries> mic - (missed part sorry)
[15:48:56] <Peter DeVries> mic - Mike Akerman - agrees moving this forward
[15:49:25] <Peter DeVries> options - adopt now or wait for merged
[15:50:58] <Peter DeVries> mic - Greg - adopt this but merge and merge both docs in WG.  Both Author groups merge
[15:51:28] <Peter DeVries> Al hasn't read the other doc yet, Greg would object to adoption without precondition
[15:52:45] <Peter DeVries> Chair - Recommend Call for adoption and then evaluate what can be merged and determine author group based on that.  
[16:00:03] <Peter DeVries> polling the room
[16:00:27] <Peter DeVries> agree to have definitions and framework separate
[16:00:30] <Rob Hamilton> hummmmm
[16:00:31] <Rob Hamilton> hummmmm
[16:00:31] <Rob Hamilton> hummmmm
[16:00:32] <Rob Hamilton> hummmmm
[16:00:33] <Rob Hamilton> hummmmm
[16:00:34] <Rob Hamilton> hummmmm
[16:00:35] <Peter DeVries> Got it
[16:00:41] <Peter DeVries> Lots of hums for separate
[16:00:49] <Peter DeVries> none or almost none for together
[16:01:20] <Peter DeVries> Call for adoption with the direction to work with framework team
[16:01:39] <Rob Hamilton> hummmmm
[16:01:40] <Peter DeVries> lots for adoption
[16:01:50] <Peter DeVries> no or almost no objections
[16:01:58] <Peter DeVries> will take the call for adoption to the list
[16:02:29] <Peter DeVries> (FYI  I need to leave at 1115 if someone in the room can take over for the last 15)
[16:02:47] <Peter DeVries> http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/92/slides/slides-92-ippm-2.pdf
[16:02:57] <Peter DeVries> slide: Motifvation
[16:03:54] <Peter DeVries> slide: IPFPM Components
[16:05:09] <Peter DeVries> slide: Packet Loss Measurement
[16:05:48] <Peter DeVries> slide: Packet Delay Measurement
[16:06:19] <Peter DeVries> slide: Average Delay Measurement
[16:07:20] <Peter DeVries> slide MP2MP Flow Measurement
[16:08:35] <Peter DeVries> Slide: Re-ording Tolerance
[16:09:26] <Peter DeVries> slide: Progress
[16:10:49] <Peter DeVries> Slide: Updates since last version
[16:11:15] <Peter DeVries> Slide: Summary
[16:11:46] <Peter DeVries> Slide: Next Steps
[16:12:21] <Peter DeVries> mic - Michael Ackerman
[16:12:46] <Peter DeVries> question - in terms of implementation is it still IP header in V4 and extension header in V6
[16:13:32] <Peter DeVries> Sorry I have to go now.  
[16:13:36] Peter DeVries leaves the room
[16:16:27] <Brian Trammell> (I've got the jabber client open)
[16:30:23] <Rob Hamilton> hummmmm
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