[02:56:03] --- henku has joined
[02:56:13] <henku> This is the IPPM WG
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[03:07:03] <mallman> mattz: any chance you have the reordering slides available?
[03:07:17] <mallman> ".... and i ain't even done with the night"
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[03:15:06] <mallman> anyone in the room?
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[03:16:34] <henku> Hi Mark, we're here.
[03:16:54] <henku> Will send the reorder slides next
[03:17:13] <mallman> henk, there is a horrible hum
[03:17:21] <mallman> is there a mic next to the projector?
[03:17:28] <jishac> ditto on the hum of the audio stream
[03:17:44] <henku> Yes, there is a horrible hum in the whole room.
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[03:17:56] <mallman> ah shit....
[03:18:03] <mallman> it makes it really hard to hear
[03:18:54] <pfc@jabber.org> I'm not on audio feed, so if there are any questions, could someone relay them to the chat room?
[03:19:08] <henku> Yes, I will.
[03:19:22] <pfc@jabber.org> OK Thanks
[03:21:09] <henku> Al Morton: the concept of valid IP bits: what is it.
[03:21:27] <henku> Header can be checked, contents cannot because you don't know what they should be
[03:21:40] <henku> Matt: Any particular problem?
[03:21:51] <henku> Al: Replacement of bits by all 1's or so.
[03:22:01] <henku> Matt: Not clear if you need correctness for this measurement
[03:22:01] <mallman> depends on which "capacity" you're talking about
[03:22:26] <pfc@jabber.org> Basically, it is the notion of bits delivered at L3 "interface". We know that content can't be checked. It is the correct delivery at the "API"
[03:22:27] <henku> Al wants to compare with the rest of the framework, can the authors do this.
[03:23:07] <pfc@jabber.org> Don't understand exactly what he is asking. We can go through the framework and try to regularize
[03:23:11] <jishac> which frame?
[03:23:15] <jishac> err framework?
[03:23:27] <mallman> the ippm framework
[03:23:32] <pfc@jabber.org> The original IPPM framework, forget which RFC
[03:23:36] <henku> 2330
[03:23:40] <jishac> ah ok
[03:23:44] <mallman> how do the other metrics deal with munged stuff?
[03:24:01] <pfc@jabber.org> Mostly they don't as I recall
[03:24:12] <mallman> "i still think it could be done"
[03:24:19] <henku> Emile asks for the scope of this document, is this only to set definitions or will this it lead to a metric
[03:24:46] <pfc@jabber.org> As agreed last time, only setting definitions
[03:25:11] <mallman> the metric is MUCH harder
[03:25:16] <henku> Relayed that to Emile
[03:25:25] <mallman> and, can only come and be compared if we have good definitions
[03:25:50] <henku> Question: do the authors plan to do anything above TCP level
[03:25:56] <pfc@jabber.org> Keep in mind that you might never have a metric that fits the definitions exactly
[03:26:20] <pfc@jabber.org> No, we don't intend to do anything above the IP level, unless scope is expanded.
[03:27:03] <jishac> Joe agrees with Phil
[03:27:04] <mallman> we have that already -- it's BTC
[03:27:31] <henku> Comment: TCP capacity might be more interesting because of retransmits than IP capacity
[03:27:50] <jishac> like Mark said, we have BTC
[03:27:55] <henku> Yup.
[03:27:56] <pfc@jabber.org> IP capacity already has to deal with retransmits at the MAC level...
[03:28:24] <henku> We now switch to reordering
[03:28:48] <pfc@jabber.org> Mark what did you mean "I still think it can be done"
[03:29:06] <mallman> a quote from matt... he's an optimist! :-)
[03:29:35] <pfc@jabber.org> OK. But what is it that can be done? Square the defs with framework?
[03:29:40] <henku> Slides have just been forwarded to the list
[03:30:19] <mallman> pfc: i do not follow.
[03:30:29] <jishac> I think it may have been made in relation to good metrics
[03:30:50] <pfc@jabber.org> Oh. OK. Lack of audio feed....sorry
[03:30:57] <mallman> yeah... ignore the comment... it wasn't substanative.
[03:38:24] <mallman> how does the rbd work square with this draft in the chairs view?
[03:40:23] <henku> Juergen is next
[03:42:19] <mattz> Mark, I'll work with henk to answer your question on the ML
[03:42:49] <mattz> And, to make sure I understand, you want to know how we think the RBD work fits in with the current draft?
[03:43:57] <mallman> yes... i want to have a precise understanding of what the overall view of these two drafts is.
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[03:44:46] <mattz> ok. I'm working on this anyway, so I will give *our view* of these two drafts. not sure what you mean by "precise", but I'll do my best
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[03:45:28] <mallman> well... "precise" meaning "succinct" really, i guess. and, not from either set of authors.
[03:45:55] <mattz> ok. thanks!
[03:46:17] <mallman> is someone messing with the audio or is that the "eating our own dog food" part of all this.
[03:46:40] <mattz> as far as I know, we are not doing anything in the room
[03:46:43] <henku> No, nobody is touching the audio equipment here
[03:46:48] <mallman> ok....
[03:46:51] <mallman> thanks
[03:47:05] <jishac> yes audio stream is in and out
[03:47:13] <mallman> someone should stop worrying about traceroute data models and start fixing the Internet instead
[03:47:47] * jishac blames the IETF network on a monday morning
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[03:54:50] <jishac> can someone explain what the symbols mean on slide 6? +, o, - ?
[03:55:04] <mallman> pro, con and neutral
[03:55:08] <mallman> (i think)
[03:55:46] <henku> + well suited, - not well suited, 0 something in between
[03:58:59] <mallman> mic, please
[03:59:08] <mallman> (or, is this just more lousy audio?)
[03:59:16] <mattz> maybe it doesn't respond well to Henk's voice?
[03:59:34] <henku> Some discussion if this belongs in IPPM.
[04:00:08] <henku> '
[04:00:33] <henku> Juergen comments that he looked into this and found that IPPM was the most appropriate place (even though not perfect)
[04:03:44] <henku> We move on with Lei Liang
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