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[13:57:14] <pjaitken> Brrr! It's cold in here!
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[14:01:52] <nevil> anyone in the room who could be jabber scribe for us, please?
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[14:04:19] <andrjohn> Everyone not here can get the slides from http://ipfix.doit.wisc.edu/IETF65/
[14:04:36] <david> Nevil: Nice and warm here at home!
[14:04:57] <pjaitken> Brrrr!
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[14:06:26] <andrjohn> FYI: Mike is now active for those listening in
[14:06:29] <pjaitken> Status of the current drafts.
[14:08:00] <pjaitken> Is everyone here actually in the meeting room too? Do we need to scribe everything?
[14:08:14] <sleinen> David Kessens is at home... (our AD)
[14:08:46] <pjaitken> OK. Nevil wants to see the docs updated by next week.
[14:08:46] <sleinen> (but he can probably listen to the MP3)
[14:09:21] <pjaitken> What do you think an applicability statement is supposed to do.
[14:09:24] <pjaitken> Bert at the Mike
[14:11:10] <andrjohn> Bert's complaint is that there is too much in the draft saying how it can be adapted to different environments rather than explaining how it can be used today and what the restrictions to it are.
[14:11:22] <pjaitken> Tanja at the mike
[14:12:52] <andrjohn> Tanja: feels we followed the guidelines but agrees the examples are a little exotic. She wants to add more restrictions and critisms and is looking for input from anyone.
[14:13:17] <andrjohn> Nevil: There will be another editting pass so please provide input if you have any
[14:14:31] <david> pjaitken, simon: I have no problem if there is no jabber scribe perse, the audio works fine for me. However, our experience is that jabber minutes can be extremely useful for the minutes.
[14:15:15] <sleinen> right.
[14:15:15] <david> (although Nevil should be a bit closer to the Mike ;-))
[14:15:40] <pjaitken> One more rev of the drafts before last call, propose March 31st, revised to April 7th.
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[14:16:23] <pjaitken> Next up: Elisa on the 2nd Interop event
[14:19:15] <pjaitken> Next: Jeurgen for charter review.
[14:20:04] <pjaitken> (Technical difficulties with the slides)
[14:20:22] <david> I was about to complain that he didn't use the mike ;-)
[14:27:40] <andrjohn> Jeurgen: Is this the proper way to choose the WG items?
[14:28:10] <andrjohn> Emile Stephan: What do you do when you have the list of answers to the questions asked about each item?
[14:28:40] <andrjohn> Jeurgen / Nevil: It's a starting point to help choose the drafts. Partly up to the chairs, but hope for general concencous
[14:29:43] <andrjohn> Dave: Have heard a lot of these drafts and but not much from the rest of the group. For a WG item expect more support from the group. Don't be afraid to say that a draft is no good.
[14:30:20] <pjaitken> Jeurgen on IPFIX Aggregation.
[14:34:43] <pjaitken> Slide 5, Example.
[14:35:45] <pjaitken> Dave: We don't have time for comments now.
[14:36:46] <pjaitken> Elisa: Implementation Guidelines.
[14:39:36] <arifumi@2entwine.net> this slide isn't uploaded, huh
[14:40:01] <pjaitken> It's the Document Outline slide?
[14:41:40] <arifumi@2entwine.net> yes
[14:41:49] <arifumi@2entwine.net> helpful if uploaded i think
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[14:43:37] <pjaitken> Bert at the Mike
[14:44:26] <andrjohn> Bert: Are you going to ask IANA for the experimental enterprise IDs
[14:44:55] <andrjohn> Elisa: It's been said it's hard to get and it'll take a while, besides they may run out
[14:45:30] <andrjohn> Bert: There's 4 billion, and you get them the day after you fill in an online form. You shouldn't just use IDs you don't have.
[14:45:54] <andrjohn> Dave: We're just decided stuff we need to solve. We'll solve it properly if it's a WG thing
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[14:46:21] <pjaitken> Next: Elisa, Reducing redundancy.
[14:46:34] <andrjohn> (used to be per-packet draft)
[14:50:38] <bert> If you use IPv4 addresses or IPv6 addresses in Examples, then you should use addresses that have been reserved for examples.
[14:50:43] <bert> See RFC3330 for IPv4
[14:51:36] <pjaitken> Next: Benoit, reliability
[14:51:36] <bert> See RFC3849 for IPv6
[14:56:39] <pjaitken> Brian on biflow
[15:03:03] <pjaitken> Brian on File draft (persistent storage)
[15:03:20] <pjaitken> It's an expired draft.
[15:04:36] <bert> I always wonder if expired drafts should actually be discussed in a WG session;
[15:05:04] <pjaitken> Especially when we're tight for time
[15:07:03] <pjaitken> Next: kobayashi concentrator model
[15:07:38] <andrjohn> Which IPFIX implementation does he have a problem with?
[15:08:05] <pjaitken> Slide 3, solution.
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[15:08:51] <pjaitken> Slide 4, Calrification
[15:10:41] <pjaitken> Slide 5, Internal model
[15:11:06] <arifumi@2entwine.net> generic problem statement i think
[15:11:20] <pjaitken> Slide 6, Solution
[15:11:36] <pjaitken> Slide 7, MIB
[15:11:58] <pjaitken> Slide 8, MIB
[15:12:17] <pjaitken> Slide 9, next step
[15:13:01] <pjaitken> Next: me, testing
[15:13:25] <andrjohn> Do people find the slide numbering useful? (he only has one real one)
[15:14:48] <andrjohn> I guess not
[15:16:50] <andrjohn> Points not on slides: Second interop - used the draft to outline testing Request for speicific examples to provide sample tests Would like automated testing
[15:17:08] <andrjohn> Emile is up on predefined templates
[15:19:09] <pjaitken> I quote the slide numbers when the speaker might not be clearly heard on the audio
[15:22:20] <pjaitken> HERE and HERE are the two question marks on that slide.
[15:22:28] <pjaitken> slide 4
[15:24:19] <pjaitken> Jeurgen.
[15:24:23] <pjaitken> on the MIB
[15:24:51] <pjaitken> slide 3, scope
[15:27:25] <pjaitken> Slide 4,
[15:29:19] <pjaitken> Slide 5, proposal
[15:33:11] <pjaitken> Did anyone get this guys name?
[15:33:15] <andrjohn> Cert guy: imp guide / testing.
[15:33:34] <andrjohn> : wants biflow and file format
[15:34:06] <pjaitken> He's CERT; Brian's CERT. No surprise.
[15:34:41] <pjaitken> Carter at the Mike
[15:35:46] <andrjohn> : Seems to be a lot of stuff on the data IPFIX will shove around, rather than on the protocol
[15:36:54] <andrjohn> : Feels IPFIX can't handle other flows (MPLS LSP) etc, and we should deal with that, rather than defining what a flow is / what info is being shoved about
[15:37:06] <pjaitken> Are we focused on probes or transport?
[15:37:19] <pjaitken> Jeurgen in reply.
[15:37:55] <andrjohn> Jeurgen - Rule that we don't have elements that aren't requested. If we can't handle something now it's because no-one has asked for it.
[15:38:11] <pjaitken> Mr Blue Dot.
[15:38:13] <andrjohn> Don someone
[15:38:31] <bert> Dan Romascanu. He will be you new AD for IPFIX
[15:38:44] <pjaitken> Thanks
[15:38:46] <bert> He will get a yellow dot tonite
[15:40:43] <pjaitken> Get his comments on the mp3 archive
[15:40:47] <pjaitken> Benoit at the mike
[15:41:38] <andrjohn> Benoit: Likes MIB idea, MIB isn't clear right now. Agrees MIB is better for monitoring rather than set. Cisco has a NetFlow MIB which could form a good basis for IPFIX MIBS.
[15:42:18] <pjaitken> Perhaps testing could be incorporated into implementation guidelines if the number of drafts is limited.
[15:42:26] <pjaitken> Ralf Walter
[15:42:30] <sleinen> Wolter
[15:42:32] <andrjohn> Benoit: Biflow - Is concerned about polution of IE number space, with post and reverse we're rapidly reducing number space
[15:42:38] <andrjohn> Rolf?
[15:42:46] <pjaitken> likes the MIB. Could get a nice MIB.
[15:43:05] <pjaitken> 20% of customers use NF for billing so should focus on that.
[15:43:21] <pjaitken> whats the 80%? Monitoring, security, capacity planning.
[15:43:23] <andrjohn> Rolf: likes MIB. 20% customer uses for billing, rest for capacity planning and monitoring
[15:43:33] <pjaitken> Carter again.
[15:43:48] <pjaitken> disagreement in the room
[15:44:10] <andrjohn> Carter: We don't have MIBs for protocols
[15:44:21] <andrjohn> Nevil: TCP is in the first MIB
[15:44:30] <pjaitken> Comments in the room: There is a MIB for SCTP.
[15:44:30] <andrjohn> Carter: No MIB for SCTP
[15:44:38] <pjaitken> MIB: RFC3873
[15:45:10] <pjaitken> Nevil at the chair
[15:46:01] <pjaitken> Carter: Define MIB and support functionality for the device, rather than for the protocol.
[15:46:25] <pjaitken> Elisa at the mike
[15:46:53] <pjaitken> Doesn't want to see testing in the implementation guidelines
[15:47:10] <andrjohn> Elisa: reply to Benoit. I don't like the idea of the testing in the implementation guideline. Maybe delay testing until it's mature enough for charter
[15:47:35] <pjaitken> Nevil: for the testing draft.
[15:47:38] <pjaitken> Dave at the mike
[15:47:46] <pjaitken> in reply to Carter.
[15:50:40] <pjaitken> Ralf in reply
[15:51:31] <pjaitken> Benoit, in reply to Dave.
[15:52:38] <pjaitken> Explains idea to use flags to describe information elements, but it's probably IPFIX v2
[15:52:42] <pjaitken> Brian.
[15:52:48] <pjaitken> He agrees with Benoit.
[15:53:06] <pjaitken> Proposes alternative method of using private enterprise number
[15:55:12] <pjaitken> There's a long queue at the mike
[15:55:14] <pjaitken> Emile
[15:56:16] <pjaitken> Jeurgen in reply to Brian
[15:56:27] <pjaitken> concerned about biflow
[15:56:46] <pjaitken> Elisa
[15:59:15] <pjaitken> Emile.
[16:00:20] <pjaitken> Dave, at the chair
[16:01:06] <pjaitken> Nev, at the chair
[16:03:17] <pjaitken> summarises people's input on the drafts
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[16:03:42] <pjaitken> Dan at the mike
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[16:04:35] <pjaitken> Need to shorten the list of drafts to be carried forward in new charter.
[16:05:44] <pjaitken> Jeurgen in rely to Dan
[16:06:27] <pjaitken> Nev wraps up the meeting.
[16:06:35] <pjaitken> PSAMP in 5 mins
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