[00:01:11] Andrew Sullivan joins the room [00:11:12] narten leaves the room [01:02:14] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room [01:05:09] Andrew Sullivan joins the room [01:20:18] fujiwara leaves the room [01:57:02] jaeyounkim joins the room [02:05:23] jaeyounkim leaves the room [02:37:19] jaeyounkim joins the room [03:21:41] jaeyounkim leaves the room [03:21:41] jaeyounkim joins the room [03:21:41] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room [03:21:45] Andrew Sullivan joins the room [03:34:04] healthyao joins the room [06:29:10] jaeyounkim leaves the room [07:16:05] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room [09:57:18] healthyao leaves the room [14:48:29] jaeyounkim joins the room [14:53:57] yone joins the room [14:56:21] Dave Cridland joins the room [14:57:32] marcos joins the room [14:59:16] Andrew Sullivan joins the room [15:01:07] edmon joins the room [15:01:18] fujiwara joins the room [15:01:39] Cary joins the room [15:01:57] Chair requests minutes show idnabis-defs accepted [15:02:07] non-sunstantive edits notwithstanding [15:02:26] Klensin reported that updated doc posted [15:03:00] Issues with protocol: Chair supports suggestion in protocol to move 4.1 to 4.3 [15:03:28] bidi issues [15:03:45] raj joins the room [15:04:30] claudio.marotta joins the room [15:04:46] Harald Alvestrand: [15:05:44] richard.barnes joins the room [15:05:44] have not found a way to solve number problem, therefore response to the problem of things moving around between labels is to warn in the document [15:05:45] resnick joins the room [15:05:51] if you object, say so now [15:06:24] section 5 text deleted [15:06:28] is WG ok with it? [15:06:49] resnick leaves the room [15:07:27] resnick joins the room [15:07:43] abelyang joins the room [15:07:45] problem of inter-label checking due to DNAME &c. [15:08:03] therefore Harald was arguing to allow checking in Dublin [15:08:18] but has stopped arguing for that because of objections [15:08:30] so now, no recommendation to check across labels [15:09:07] now issue with INDIC and extended INDIC [15:09:21] Patrik proposing (and will adopt without hearing objections) [15:09:30] is just to add the 20 exceptions [15:09:36] and add two contextual rules [15:10:25] [scribe's note: please remember to say who you are at the mic. I'm a lousy typist, and can't look around and type at same time] [15:11:00] That was Eric Brunner-Williams and Patrik Fältström [15:11:06] Eric Brunner-Williams was checking code points that are being proposed [15:11:19] Now Harald: [15:11:28] ted_qualcomm joins the room [15:11:39] shinta joins the room [15:12:17] could disallow mixing of numbers, or could disallow mixing of arabic numbers, or could disallow mixing of 2 indics and european [15:12:33] John Klensin [15:12:51] Return to real problems rather than theoretical ones [15:13:16] appears to be the only language written in one script that has this mixing problem [15:13:32] keep "western arabic-indics" away from european [15:13:49] and keep "western arabic-indics" away from "eastern" ones [15:14:49] Chair: does this mean restrictive rules originally proposed by Harald are ok? [15:15:01] John: too restrictive [15:15:13] Chair: rules from yesterday [15:16:12] John: set of rules specific to arabic-indic and extended a-i. The rule should be that you get one of {eur, a-i, extended a-i} [15:16:29] (I think that's what John said, but if someone understood differently it'd be nice to hear it) [15:16:41] Resnick: what bad thing happens of these things are combined [15:17:13] John: In Morocco, if you type arabic-indic digits, what goes in the file will be European digits. [15:17:44] and if you later look at the file while in Morocco, you'll get eur. digits, but if you look at it i Syria you'll get arabic digits [15:18:02] the narrow problem is that if you can mix the two digits in an input stream, there may be problems [15:18:16] Resnick: input methods that will not output some of these things [15:18:37] issue not about mixing, but issue is that there are some inputs you just can't get [15:19:06] why is the answer not to normalise to one set? [15:19:27] John: not an answer for the same reason that mapping traditional Chinese to simplified Chinese [15:20:11] If there is a tight rule, registries can do something useful with variants [15:20:23] Chair suggests this discussion goes into rationale [15:20:29] Pete Resnick volunteers [15:20:40] huguei joins the room [15:20:47] Harald suggests it go into general rationale and not bidi [15:20:58] Slide up: alternatives [15:21:10] If an indic digit exists in a label, 3 alts: [15:21:17] 1. do not allow any other digits [15:21:21] sftcd joins the room [15:21:33] 2. do not allow an ascii digit or and extended indic digit [15:21:44] 3. do not allow extended indic digits [15:22:03] klensin joins the room [15:22:12] note that (2) is narrower than (1), because there are more than just these 3 kinds of digits [15:22:20] Eric Brunner-Williams at mic [15:23:11] Appreciates driving concerns, but wanting to invert importance of the issues, but supporting John Klensin's approach anyway [15:23:18] Pete Resnick [15:23:52] asks clarifying question [15:24:05] Eric dismisses the input method issue as not that important [15:24:46] Patrik asks to clarify: is the rule you want #3? [15:25:40] Eric says yes [15:26:13] the rule list above is for non-extended digits, there's a mirror one for extended ones [15:26:22] Patrik wants to know which of the 3 rules should be adopted [15:26:45] Harald suggests straw poll to get [15:26:50] Lyman Chapin joins the room [15:26:55] sense of plan [15:27:07] Barry Lieba: apparently 1 is ruled out [15:27:27] but thinks there isn't a qualification among participants to chose between 2 and 3 [15:27:47] John: may be that John should have conversation with Eric [15:28:28] Apparently different impressions between Eric and John of use cases [15:28:37] and John now feels uncomfortable [15:29:05] Chair thinks this is a good idea [15:30:23] (Is there any chance someone could type the rules in here? I feel slightly stateless...) [15:30:39] Harald suggests it go into general rationale and not bidi 9:20 Slide up: alternatives 9:21 If an indic digit exists in a label, 3 alts: 9:21 1. do not allow any other digits 9:21 sftcd [sftcd@jabber.org/Home] entered the room. Andrew Sullivan 9:21 2. do not allow an ascii digit or and extended indic digit 9:21 3. do not allow extended indic digits [15:30:56] (hmm, that didn't work) [15:30:59] Heh. Just noticed they were there already. [15:31:08] Harald suggests it go into general rationale and not bidi 9:20 Slide up: alternatives 9:21 If an indic digit exists in a label, 3 alts: 9:21 1. do not allow any other digits [15:31:19] 2. do not allow an ascii digit or and extended indic digit 9:21 3. do not allow extended indic digits [15:32:07] action for Eric and John to study further [15:32:22] Suzanne joins the room [15:32:23] Andrew Sullivan at mic [15:32:32] why isn't this a registry policy problem? [15:33:29] eric.brunner joins the room [15:33:59] John Klensin responds because if the input issue exists [15:34:00] I assume it's because if a registry chose not to, then you'd have non-interoperable registries, which seems scary. [15:34:07] then you don't have any control over what comes from the user [15:34:30] Eric at mic again: will be consulting with ASIWG and Arab League [15:34:40] Moving from this [15:34:50] discussion of rationale issue section 7.2 [15:35:08] Chair noted that "sunrise" is a difficult word to use here [15:35:19] malin joins the room [15:35:35] and it's in the doc. Chair suggests a change in language [15:35:54] This is everything on the agenda [15:36:30] Apparently we have covered everything [15:36:36] Jelte joins the room [15:36:41] confirmation of 5 document structure [15:36:46] huguei leaves the room [15:36:46] richard.barnes leaves the room [15:36:46] claudio.marotta leaves the room [15:36:46] malin leaves the room [15:36:59] is there disagreement? Otherwise, will rule consensus [15:37:24] calling for further objections [15:37:44] none, so a floor show of a singing robot [15:38:10] claudio.marotta joins the room [15:38:24] claudio.marotta leaves the room [15:39:06] Chair is planning to replace himself with small device. 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