IETF
iccrg
iccrg@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, July 17, 2017< ^ >
jishac has set the subject to: Internet Congestion Control Research Group
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[11:38:07] <Jake Holland> ok, jabber scribe connected. anybody need color commentary or just question relay?
[11:38:12] <Jake Holland> (can everyone see the slides?)
[11:38:17] <lstewart> Greetings iccrg-ers. I'm Jabber scribing
[11:38:32] <Randell Jesup> no problem seeing slides
[11:38:40] <Jake Holland> oh, i thought i volunteered, but go ahead :)
[11:39:08] <lstewart> Oops... I thought Jana was looking at me
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[11:40:25] <lstewart> We're both here now... can tag team at the mic
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[11:48:00] <Jake Holland> https://www.cs.kau.se/tohojo/airtime-fairness/
[11:48:13] <Jake Holland> questions?
[11:54:52] <Randell Jesup> For the previous presenter: (if on jabber) -- how well is this going to get pushed into the distributions used for *commercial* linux-based routers?  Can you reach out to them? :-)
[11:55:55] <Jake Holland> sure
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[12:00:15] <Jake Holland> he's right up front, i am delaying for a good moment to pass a note. i will make sure to ask him, but have not yet. i don't think he's on jabber.
[12:00:25] <Randell Jesup> thanks
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[12:07:13] <Jake Holland> he left, i handed him the note on the way out and nodded in a way that suggests he intends to get back to you.
[12:07:40] <Jake Holland> s/nodded/he nodded/
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[12:13:38] <Kyle Rose> Jake: many of us are interested in the answer to that question. I'm particularly interested in how quickly Ubiquiti will pick this up. :-)
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[12:14:05] <Jake Holland> might have to send an email to the list and cc toke
[12:14:14] <Jake Holland> or maybe he's here now to answer :)
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[12:14:36] <tohojo> yup :)
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[12:17:37] <tohojo> I obviously don't have any insights into the inner workings of commercial vendors, but I am aware of several chip vendors who are supposedly working on proprietary implementations of some kind of airtime fairness...
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[12:19:16] <tohojo> Getting it to work on more chipsets (in Linux) is ongoing work; right now the bufferbloat stuff is enabled on ath9k, ath10k and the out-of-tree mt76; airtime fairness is only for ath9k
[12:19:51] <Kyle Rose> ­čĹŹ
[12:20:13] <tohojo> Commercial Linux-based off-the-shelf routers are generally at around five years out of date on the software side at the time they ship, unfortunately; so it may be a while before you can buy this in a store. People with connections to vendors are very welcome to raise the issue :)
[12:20:29] <Jake Holland> is there a openwrt port?
[12:20:44] <tohojo> it has ben in mainline LEDE since january :)
[12:20:57] <tohojo> (LEDE is the openwrt fork; though they are in the process of re-merging)
[12:21:17] <Kyle Rose> toke: is that (being 5 years out-of-date) true for commercial routers, not just for residential routers?
[12:21:52] <Randell Jesup> tohojo: yeah, that was my concern (the level of out-of-dateness).  Perhaps some router makers could be persuaded that this would be a competitive advantage
[12:21:56] <tohojo> Ah, I meant residential when I said commercial, not "enterprise"
[12:22:12] <Kyle Rose> Ok, cool. I meant "enterprise", not "commercial" :-)
[12:22:29] <tohojo> Randell Jesup, yeah, you would think...
[12:23:00] <Kyle Rose> (FWIW, the Ubiquiti routers are enterprise-class routers, not residential. I gave up on the residential garbage years ago.)
[12:23:25] <tohojo> I don't have a lot of insight into what enterprise vendors are doing...
[12:24:00] <Randell Jesup> For the presenter (if possible) it might be interesting to have them look at the RMCAT feedback packet work (obviously wouldn't be used directly, but the concepts of feeding back arrival times in cases where we can modify the receiver might be an interesting are for improvement in BBR/estimation
[12:24:01] <Kyle Rose> I will probably ask them about this on their user forum, and see if they are paying attention to this work.
[12:24:17] <tohojo> Ubiquiti was one of the first vendors to ship FQ-CoDel, though, so they could well be
[12:24:53] <tohojo> Otherwise, many ubiquiti devices run openwrt/LEDE just fine :)
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[12:52:43] <Kyle Rose> Does anyone know where the slides are? The meeting materials here doesn't list anything: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda/
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[12:59:04] <Spencer Dawkins> Kyle, Allison Mankin and I were just chatting about that ..
[12:59:16] <John Leslie> Could someone ask Bob if the utilization could be approved for 5G with larger packets?
[12:59:54] <Jake Holland> (improved, or approved?)
[13:00:27] <Jake Holland> there may not be time for questions
[13:00:57] <John Leslie> s/approved/improved
[13:02:58] <Jake Holland> no time for questions. encouraged to ask him offline.
[13:03:18] <Kyle Rose> I want to forward that presentation to some folks who will be interested
[13:03:44] <John Leslie> Actually, the tradition used to be, "Take this to the list..."
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[13:04:11] <Jake Holland> yes, that's probably what they meant. "in the hall" was suggested, but on list presumably is better.
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[13:19:00] <John Leslie> If there's time for questions, I suggest, "How can we design this to minimize setup time?"
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[13:24:17] <Jake Holland> answer: pick a policy that chooses a protocol that minimizes setup time
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