IETF
httpbis
httpbis@jabber.ietf.org
Wednesday, July 19, 2017< ^ >
Martin Thomson has set the subject to: HTTP Working Group - IETF 98
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[11:28:32] ynir has set the subject to: HTTP Working Group - IETF 99
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[11:30:58] ynir has set the subject to: HTTP Working Group - IETF 99 - https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/agenda/agenda-99-httpbis-02.html
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[11:34:57] <ynir> Please note: I'm taking notes now, but I'll have to go for the second session, so we'll need another volunteer for that.
[11:35:05] <mcmanus> thanks. noted
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[11:38:25] <mcmanus> does the meetecho sound ok?
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[11:38:49] <Julian Reschke> remote sound is perfect
[11:38:57] <Michael Bishop> Yep -- took me a bit to get re-joined, but the audio's great.
[11:39:01] <mcmanus> great
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[11:55:54] <Julian Reschke> We're not making progress - that's the main issue
[11:56:12] <Julian Reschke> I'm willing to get the JSON spec out as non-WG spec
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[12:00:34] <netwerkeddude@gmail.com> which draft "salvaged" ?
[12:00:54] <craigt> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure-01
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[12:01:07] <netwerkeddude@gmail.com> thx
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[12:05:12] <Julian Reschke> for those still interested: https://www.greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-reschke-http-jfv-06.html
[12:07:46] <Stefan Eissing> Size also depends on what probability you want to achieve
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[12:08:42] <Michael Bishop> Yes.
[12:10:04] <Michael Bishop> I was agreeing with "This is needed to fix Server Push", actually.
[12:10:18] <mcmanus> would you like a mic retraction? :)
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[12:13:38] <Michael Bishop> Hand raised, not in queue
[12:13:48] <Michael Bishop> No, that's fine.
[12:14:05] <Michael Bishop> (That's fine @mcmanus re: mic retraction.)
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[12:18:08] <netwerkeddude@gmail.com> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/agenda/ietf-99-replays.pdf  ..404's for me?
[12:19:01] <mcmanus> I'll look into that.. but https://github.com/httpwg/wg-materials/blob/gh-pages/ietf99/ietf-99-replays.pdf is the same
[12:19:17] <netwerkeddude@gmail.com> thx
[12:19:53] <Michael Bishop> The links in the agenda are broken; check the meeting materials.
[12:19:56] <Michael Bishop> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-httpbis-sessb-replays-00.pdf
[12:20:26] <Michael Bishop> Bah, meetecho isn't auto-scrolling.  :-/  mcmanus got there first.
[12:20:50] <Michael Bishop> @mcmanus, all the slide links I tried in the agenda appear to be wrong.
[12:21:07] <mcmanus> thx.
[12:21:37] <Meetecho> It should actually, but only if it was already at the last message: if you scrolled up yourself to read something, we don't autoscroll to allow you to still read what you want and not be bounced to the last message against your will
[12:22:56] <Michael Bishop> Fair enough.
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[12:30:58] <Michael Bishop> I support adopting this.
[12:32:55] <Michael Bishop> Hum for read.
[12:33:03] <Victor Vasiliev> I've read and support adopting
[12:33:08] <Michael Bishop> Hum for adopting.
[12:33:12] <Stefan Eissing> Hum
[12:33:14] <Erik Nygren> Hum for adopting.
[12:33:18] <Alan Frindell> hum for adopt
[12:33:21] <Julian Reschke> hum for adopt
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[12:34:40] <Michael Bishop> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-httpbis-sessb-origin-00.pdf
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[12:36:45] <Michael Bishop> I'll note that we're also doing an adoption call for a draft that says "Clients MUST continue to validate that    the destination IP address is valid for the origin either by direct    DNS resolution or resolution of a validated Alternative Service."
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[12:44:30] <Michael Bishop> Oh, and +1 to the "server can't rely on no DNS queries anyway" because of existing clients"
[12:45:27] <Martin Thomson> yeah, that's pretty obvious, though it is less obvious with secondary certs
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[12:47:32] <Michael Bishop> The first domain that gets referenced by the client will hit DNS.  You can't (without mechanisms we don't have) control which of your domains that will be.
[12:48:27] <Julian Reschke> time?
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[12:49:53] <mcmanus> we might have to push it into the next session.. an AD is here to see 56bis :)
[12:49:57] <mcmanus> it==ter
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[12:52:37] <Martin Thomson> missing: jmap
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[12:52:58] <mcmanus> I should note that I said at the mic the chairs would huddle re origin feedback.. you should know we will be having that discussion with alexey as well as we have both expressed opinions on the draft. let us or alexey know if you tihnk we aren't considering all voices. we're trying hard.
[12:53:35] <Julian Reschke> ok
[12:54:19] <ynir> Good thing I never got around to publishing my IPsec-policy-over-https draft...
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[12:56:36] <lucaspardue> @mcmanunus: I share  similar concerns to Daniel about requiring features that non-browsers don't (yet) implement, and that becoming a blocker to deployability of ORIGIN
[12:58:59] <Victor Vasiliev> I don't believe HTTP is an application protocol *ducks*
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[13:01:06] <Meetecho> FYI for remote attendees, we'll keep this room active, so no need to leave and rejoin for the second round of HTTPBIS
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[13:18:00] <Michael Bishop> @mcmanus, any chance we'll be able to bring Secondary Certs into this next session as well, or should we leave that to the list?
[13:18:54] <Michael Bishop> ...but I see you leaving the
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[13:20:41] <Julian Reschke> hello
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[13:23:50] <Martin Thomson> QUIC!
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[13:26:28] <netwerkeddude@gmail.com> link to minutes etherpad ?
[13:26:42] <mcmanus> secondary certs will need to go to the list unless nobody has anything to say about quic :)
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[13:27:11] <mcmanus> https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-99-httpbis?useMonospaceFont=true
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[13:28:43] <netwerkeddude@gmail.com> avri is scribing in etherpad
[13:28:50] <netwerkeddude@gmail.com> slide 6
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[13:30:08] netwerkeddude@gmail.com whoops i was in wrong etherpad…  O_o
[13:31:06] <mcmanus> that saved me that question :)
[13:31:11] <netwerkeddude@gmail.com> link to slides ?
[13:31:30] <mcmanus> https://github.com/httpwg/wg-materials/blob/gh-pages/ietf99/IETF99-HTTP-QUIC.PDF
[13:31:32] netwerkeddude@gmail.com avri not scribing here
[13:31:45] <mcmanus> they're on datatracker too.. but I bet not linked right from the agenda
[13:31:48] <netwerkeddude@gmail.com> thx
[13:32:29] <mcmanus> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-99-httpbis-sessa-http-over-quic/
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[13:33:49] <Charles 'Buck' Krasic> hand up
[13:34:17] <Charles 'Buck' Krasic> never mind
[13:35:40] <netwerkeddude@gmail.com> others shud feel free to help out in the etherpad.....
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[13:42:38] <Charles 'Buck' Krasic> there will still be some synchronization in both QPACK and QCRAM... a indexed representation may need to block if the corresponding entry isn't available yet.
[13:42:55] <Charles 'Buck' Krasic> a small thing, but not zero
[13:45:40] <mcmanus> just say mic: if you want me to relay something (buck?)
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[13:46:47] <Martin Thomson> OK, I had a bad idea: if the headers block doesn't include modifications to the table, you could duplicate the sequence number, but then I realized that the receiver doesn't know how many of those to wait for before it continues...
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[13:47:09] <mcmanus> all, but esp alan and buck right now - we're not sure if we can mux with mike giving a presentation on meetecho. so flag here if we should interrupt to get you on
[13:47:30] <Meetecho> mcmanus: yes, Mike is a speaker so virtual queue can be used in parallle
[13:47:34] <Meetecho> *parallel
[13:47:39] <mcmanus> thx
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[13:50:12] <Charles 'Buck' Krasic> mic :)
[13:50:22] <mcmanus> ack.
[13:50:39] <netwerkeddude@gmail.com> which proposal is MT deriding?
[13:50:45] <Meetecho> Let me know when you want to unmute Charles and I'll minimize Mike's video
[13:50:47] <Alan Frindell> qcram
[13:52:27] <Alan Frindell> my experiments didn't show it moving the needle that much, but I'd like to run more experiments
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[13:55:30] <mcmanus> alan would you like to get in the queue?
[13:56:20] <Alan Frindell> I think I should be able to open source our comparison simulator between now and Seattle
[13:56:30] <netwerkeddude@gmail.com> "seattle" is an interim meeting?
[13:56:34] <Alan Frindell> yes
[13:56:38] <netwerkeddude@gmail.com> thx
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[14:00:37] <Spencer Dawkins> Mike, please tell Jonathan we said "hi".
[14:00:41] <Charles 'Buck' Krasic> i am reminded of the everyone should use sip signalling idea from eons ago....
[14:01:08] <Spencer Dawkins> And thanks for lowering the average attendee age A LOT ;-)
[14:01:27] <Erik Nygren> Even if none of the settings data is sensitive, it could still make it easier for client fingerprinting by passive observers.
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[14:03:15] <Martin Thomson> encrypt!
[14:03:36] <Erik Nygren> encrypt!
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[14:04:36] <Aaron Zauner> encrypt!
[14:04:56] <Charles 'Buck' Krasic> it seems very likely to me that some HPACK/QPACK/QCRAM errors will necessitate closing the connection.
[14:08:49] <Marten Seemann> Not every application will have a connection control stream.
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[14:13:50] <Charles 'Buck' Krasic> mic
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[14:28:49] <Erik Nygren> Do we at least need a port for examples?
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[14:30:52] <mcmanus> julian - are you still with us?
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[14:32:15] <Julian Reschke> si
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[14:35:49] <Julian Reschke> si
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