IETF
httpbis
httpbis@jabber.ietf.org
Friday, March 31, 2017< ^ >
Julian Reschke has set the subject to: HTTP-BIS at IETF-97, TUESDAY AFTERNOON
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[13:59:43] Martin Thomson has set the subject to: HTTP-BIS at IETF-98
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[14:00:10] Martin Thomson has set the subject to: HTTP Working Group - IETF 98
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[14:00:19] <Magnus Westerlund> The etherpad being used for taking notes are the following: http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/ietf98httpbis
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[14:00:54] <Meetecho> just FYI for those on Meetecho, Etherpad is available as integrated in the page too (document icon in the top right corner)
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[14:02:10] <Julian Reschke> An error occurred while loading the pad  uncaught exception: CircularDependencyError: Encountered circular dependency. in http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/static/js/require-kernel.js (line 293)
[14:02:29] <Julian Reschke> but reload works; sorry for the noise
[14:02:40] <Meetecho> (y)
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[14:03:35] <Wendy Seltzer> Re meeting room format, meh
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[14:03:46] <Wendy Seltzer> (not for the mic)
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[14:05:55] <Julian Reschke> mic: the two specs are past IESG -> in the RFC Editor queue
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[14:06:08] <Meetecho> no need for him to join thw queue
[14:06:58] <Barbara Stark> No slides
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[14:13:04] <craigt> Jim at the mic
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[14:17:07] <Barbara Stark> kazuho Oku presenting on Early Hints
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[14:20:46] <mnot> I think the ambiguity should be resolved in 6265bis.
[14:21:07] <Daniel Stenberg> explicit is good
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[14:21:20] <Stefan Eissing> +1, httpd uses it that way
[14:21:48] <mnot> +1 to LC
[14:22:15] <Barbara Stark> Martin speaking
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[14:22:51] <Barbara Stark> Emily Stark on Expect CT
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[14:27:28] <Barbara Stark> With so many people behind personal microphones (8) I'm finding it impossible to record speakers. I think someone else who knows all the names needs to try to jabber scribe.
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[14:28:25] <Daniel Stenberg> remind peopel to state their names?
[14:28:54] <Barbara Stark> Martin at mic
[14:29:14] <craigt> Daniel Stenberg: Will keep an eye on it and shout out if necessary
[14:29:36] <Daniel Stenberg> (its impossible to help with that fromremote)
[14:29:38] <Magnus Westerlund> Richard Barnes now
[14:30:37] <Magnus Westerlund> Roy Fielding
[14:30:49] <Magnus Westerlund> Richard at mic
[14:32:34] <Magnus Westerlund> Roy at mic
[14:33:24] <Barbara Stark> Martin Thompson
[14:34:24] <Julian Reschke> mic: I don't think expect-ct actually uses cookie syntax
[14:34:46] <Wendy Seltzer> Subodh Iyengar at mic
[14:35:01] <mnot> please please no to Subodh’s request -- it would require sending vary on the response
[14:35:34] <craigt> mnot:  to mic?
[14:35:45] <mnot> nah, I’ll take it to the issue
[14:35:51] <craigt> kk
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[14:37:23] <mnot> mic: I intend to make pull requests on the spec
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[14:37:55] <craigt> wqilldo
[14:37:57] <Barbara Stark> mnot: You want that repeated at the mic?
[14:38:38] <mnot> mark doesn’t feel like talking to the WG with his voice right now
[14:38:41] <fielding> where is the issues list for the non-h2 drafts?
[14:38:46] <Julian Reschke> mic: not right now
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[14:38:56] <mnot> https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues
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[14:39:08] <Julian Reschke> roy: https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues
[14:39:19] <mnot> what is “this draft”?
[14:39:23] <mnot> common structure?
[14:39:31] <Julian Reschke> si
[14:39:35] <fielding> thanks (can't read the tiny font on screen)
[14:39:36] <Barbara Stark> Expect CT?
[14:39:58] <Martin Thomson> Julian Reschke: should we close #316 and then open another issue about the definition for Expect-CT
[14:40:11] <Barbara Stark> Oh, no that was HTTP Header common structure
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[14:40:25] <craigt> The last conversation was common strucutre
[14:40:31] <craigt> just moving on to immutable
[14:40:49] <craigt> Immutable slides now on the projector
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[14:41:25] <craigt> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-immutable-01
[14:41:34] <craigt> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-httpbis-immutable-00.pdf
[14:41:56] <mnot> +1
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[14:42:11] <Barbara Stark> Cache Digests for HTTP/2
[14:42:17] <craigt> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-httpbis-cache-digest-00.pdf
[14:43:51] <Barbara Stark> K. Oku presenting
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[14:44:29] <Stefan Eissing> mic: are browsers interested in this?
[14:44:42] <Barbara Stark> Mike Bishop
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[14:47:24] <Stefan Eissing> mic: httpd has support for header from first version, have not seen any client.
[14:49:14] <mnot> mic: I’ve had a discussion with one browser engineer who says they might be trying to implement in the (somewhat) near future; that’s not a commitment, however. I think the question is whether we wait for a browser implementation, or ship it as experimental and see.
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[14:51:58] <Magnus Westerlund> EKR at mic
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[14:53:06] <mnot> mic: yes. yes I do.
[14:53:59] <mnot> should note that we parked it, and now we think it’s ready to unpark.
[14:55:02] <Martin Thomson> mnot: can you provide your rationale for moving to RFC?
[14:55:13] <mnot> origin?
[14:55:14] <Martin Thomson> (not pushing back, just trying to understand)
[14:55:17] <fielding> martin.thompson: please just reopen #316
[14:55:24] <Barbara Stark> Erik Nygren speaking
[14:55:40] <Martin Thomson> sorry, I thought that was for the cache digest
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[14:56:00] <Martin Thomson> fielding: ack
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[14:56:54] <Martin Thomson> fielding: actually, I think that the intent is unclear, but that the intent is there, so that this could be an editorial issue, see #318
[14:57:09] <Martin Thomson> does #318 work for you?
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[14:58:15] <fielding> yep, thanks
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[14:59:18] <Barbara Stark> Patrick speaking
[14:59:41] <mnot> meet echo, can we move the camera to cover more people?
[14:59:50] <Barbara Stark> Martin Thompson speaking
[15:00:32] <Barbara Stark> Mike Bishop speaking
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[15:02:13] <Martin Thomson> I love that Mike uses the official Microsoft example domain names
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[15:05:40] <craigt> That was Magnus Westerlund ;)
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[15:06:38] <Magnus Westerlund> ekr
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[15:06:47] <Magnus Westerlund> mikke
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[15:07:08] <Magnus Westerlund> nick
[15:07:47] <Magnus Westerlund> Kyle
[15:07:58] <Magnus Westerlund> Erik
[15:08:05] <richard.barnes> (nygren)
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[15:08:23] <Martin Thomson> that was Kyle Nekritz before Erik
[15:08:35] <Magnus Westerlund> EKR
[15:08:57] <Magnus Westerlund> Erik N
[15:09:11] <Magnus Westerlund> EKR
[15:09:23] <Magnus Westerlund> Erik N
[15:09:36] <Magnus Westerlund> EKR
[15:10:15] <Martin Thomson> Piotr Galecki
[15:10:22] <Barbara Stark> Piotr Sikora
[15:10:35] <Magnus Westerlund> Mike
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[15:10:52] <Stefan Eissing> captcha portals will fool clients in any case, or?
[15:12:11] <Magnus Westerlund> Erik N
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[15:13:13] <Magnus Westerlund> Martin
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[15:15:16] <Barbara Stark> Patrick
[15:15:43] <Magnus Westerlund> Nick
[15:15:44] <fielding> julian: is the %s in the definition of clear in "https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc7838.html#rfc.section.3" supposed to be there? Or is it a conversion artifact?
[15:16:26] <Barbara Stark> Mike Bishop
[15:17:27] <craigt> I'm unclear how we just left Origin frame
[15:17:35] <Barbara Stark> Darshak Thakore on Random Access and Live Content
[15:18:00] <Julian Reschke> roy: yes, it's a fance ABNF syntax extension the IESG forced us to use
[15:18:19] <Julian Reschke> "This document uses the Augmented BNF defined in [RFC5234] and updated by [RFC7405]...."
[15:19:59] <Martin Thomson> craigt: I think that Patrick is taking this to the list (I agree, that could have closed out more cleanly, and I was too slow to ask the question)
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[15:20:35] <Barbara Stark> Martin Thompson
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[15:22:19] <craigt> Martin Thomson: Thank you; Additionally, I probably should have declared interest. 421 as-is is hampering deployments (as you know). Explicit nature of Origin would largely clear this up and progress h2. with far fewer barriers
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[15:24:17] <mnot> I will review it.
[15:24:38] <Martin Thomson> That was Thomas Fossati
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[15:27:46] <craigt> Thanks Magnus
[15:28:12] <Barbara Stark> Magnus asked Patrick for summary of where the group is.
[15:28:25] <craigt> If you can do all my talking for me from now on... ...
[15:28:32] <Barbara Stark> Mike Bishop presenting on QUIC WG
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[15:31:53] <Barbara Stark> Many people raised hands, including some highly active people.
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[15:38:23] <Barbara Stark> People in the audience near Mike B asking inaudible questions without going to mic
[15:38:41] <richard.barnes> it’s ok because it was just a snarky aside
[15:38:51] <richard.barnes> (“what happened to stream 2?”)
[15:39:01] <suzworldwide> A snarky aside in an IETF WG meeting? I'm shocked.
[15:41:13] <Barbara Stark> EKR ? Did I get that right?
[15:41:34] <Martin Thomson> that was ekr, yes
[15:43:43] <Barbara Stark> Martin T
[15:48:47] <nygren > slides:  https://github.com/quicwg/wg-materials/blob/master/ietf98/QPACK.PDF
[15:49:24] <craigt> Buck's draft is https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-krasic-quic-qcram/
[15:50:07] <craigt> Mike's https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bishop-quic-http-and-qpack-02
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[15:55:49] <Stefan Eissing> mic: qpack's mechanism seems to have all for managing connection state changes
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[15:57:49] <Stefan Eissing> strike last, I#ll take it to the mailing list ;-)
[16:00:01] <mnot> mic: I think that the overlap is at the HTTP semantic layer; frame types, error codes are below that, and using the same registry is going to cause confusion.
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[16:01:33] <Stefan Eissing> mic: it's usedul to have extensions for one or the other without taking care of both all the time
[16:02:08] <Barbara Stark> Ben speaking
[16:03:21] <Julian Reschke> mic: quetion reminds me of the common field registry for email and http
[16:03:40] <mnot> ^ good point. That hasn’t turned out so well.
[16:03:43] <Martin Thomson> Julian Reschke: heh
[16:04:06] <kadukoafs@gmail.com/barnowl4C1F9B37> I don't see anyone in the queue to relay, that...getting up now
[16:05:14] <Barbara Stark> Sorry... I got distracted.
[16:05:28] <kadukoafs@gmail.com/barnowl4C1F9B37> No worries
[16:06:16] <Martin Thomson> Gabriel Montenegro
[16:06:32] <Barbara Stark> Gabriel Montenegro
[16:10:32] <Barbara Stark> Feng Qian -- Cross Layer Interaction of H2 Connection Management
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[16:16:37] <Stefan Eissing> related: https://icing.github.io/mod_h2/nimble.html
[16:18:56] <Barbara Stark> Jim
[16:19:39] <Barbara Stark> Mike Bishop
[16:20:18] <mnot> (be nice to the newcomers)
[16:20:34] <kadukoafs@gmail.com/barnowl4C1F9B37> (be nice to everyone)
[16:20:48] <mnot> :)
[16:21:30] <Martin Thomson> Stefan Eissing: that's a great posting, I wonder if their testbed suffered from a similar issue
[16:22:29] <Stefan Eissing> Could be. h2 is clearly into tcp window management these days. just added dynamic stream window resizing for uploads the other day...
[16:23:04] <Stefan Eissing> meetecho does not like my firefox very much... :-(
[16:23:56] <Martin Thomson> Stefan Eissing: careful, mentioning m33techo summons someone
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[16:24:41] <kadukoafs@gmail.com/barnowl4C1F9B37> beetlejuice m33techo beetlejuice
[16:24:46] <Barbara Stark> Piotr S.
[16:26:10] <Barbara Stark> K. Oku
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[16:26:40] <Barbara Stark> Patrick
[16:27:16] <kadukoafs@gmail.com/barnowl4C1F9B37> Thank you, Todd
[16:28:37] <Barbara Stark> Mike B
[16:29:40] <Barbara Stark> Jim
[16:30:52] <mnot> hmm, lost audio
[16:30:58] <mnot> I think the meeting is over...
[16:31:10] <Barbara Stark> Ben Schwartz
[16:31:16] <kadukoafs@gmail.com/barnowl4C1F9B37> Yeah, these automatic cutoffs are suboptimal
[16:31:24] <Meetecho> mnot: we're not cutting off anything
[16:31:26] <Meetecho> we're still streamin
[16:31:40] <Barbara Stark> Piort S
[16:31:54] <mnot> meetecho: just tried to get back in, says “too late”
[16:32:01] <fielding> bye
[16:32:06] <Stefan Eissing> bybye
[16:32:07] <Barbara Stark> K Oku
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[16:32:18] <Meetecho> let me check that
[16:32:28] <Meetecho> can you try again now?
[16:32:38] <mnot> same
[16:32:39] <Barbara Stark> The End
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[16:32:47] <mnot> s’ok. Going back to bed.
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