IETF
httpbis
httpbis@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, March 24, 2015< ^ >
gmaxwell has set the subject to: https://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/agenda?item=agenda-91-httpbis.html
Room Configuration
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[17:57:07] <Daniel Stenberg> we have sound
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[17:57:34] Julian Reschke has set the subject to: https://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/agenda?item=agenda-92-httpbis.html
[17:58:28] Julian Reschke hears a knocking sound
[17:59:33] Daniel Stenberg hears Mark
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[18:01:55] <c> i hear sound...
[18:02:12] c is now known as Craig Taylor
[18:02:31] <Daniel Stenberg> loud and clear
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[18:06:28] Julian Reschke applauds
[18:06:45] <Daniel Stenberg> he's there!
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[18:08:32] <Julian Reschke> https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/labels/alt-svc
[18:08:45] Tony Hansen joins the room
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[18:09:12] <Tony Hansen> slides are at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/92/materials.html#wg-httpbis
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[18:11:34] <Tony Hansen> github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/43
[18:11:39] <Tony Hansen> discussing github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/43
[18:12:02] <Dan York 2> Meetecho: Is the server down right now?  I'm getting "Server may be down" when trying to connect to Meetecho for this room
[18:12:13] <Daniel Stenberg> died just now
[18:12:15] <Craig Taylor> i just lost audio
[18:12:26] <Dan York 2> I just lost audio on the MP3 feed, too
[18:12:34] <Daniel Stenberg> mp3 feed up again
[18:12:34] <Julian Reschke> same here
[18:12:36] <Meetecho> it should be back up now
[18:12:39] <Craig Taylor> reconnected
[18:12:49] <Dan York 2> back up
[18:13:00] <Meetecho> let me know if that's not the case
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[18:13:34] <Dan York 2> Yes, Meetecho is now working
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[18:13:38] <Aaron Zauner> amazing. meetecho and streams finally work.
[18:14:02] <Meetecho> sorry for the disruption!
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[18:16:09] <Tony Hansen> discussing Opportunistic Security
[18:16:39] fielding joins the room
[18:16:48] <Tony Hansen> discussing github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/ <http://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/43>33
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[18:18:14] <Tony Hansen> discussing Tunnel-Protocol
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[18:22:34] serrhini mohamed joins the room
[18:22:53] <Tony Hansen> (discussing https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/pull/54)
[18:24:28] <Tony Hansen> on to Potential Work
[18:25:30] <Tony Hansen> github.com/httpwg/wiki/wiki/WatchList
[18:26:13] <Tony Hansen> discussing Http Signatures
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[18:27:15] <Tony Hansen> discussing HTTP Client Hints
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[18:31:03] <wseltzer> to my knowledge, the http-signatures hasn't come up in recent Web Payments IG work (as distinct from the Community Group)
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[18:31:35] <Tony Hansen> if anyone wants something channelled to the mic, please put "mic:" at the beginning of your post
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[18:34:09] <Tony Hansen> discussing draft-fielding-http-key
[18:38:06] Julian Reschke nods
[18:38:30] <Craig Taylor> worried about the complexity and scaling for anything other than a client side cache
[18:38:34] <Tony Hansen> discussing http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reschke-http-jfv
[18:39:14] <Craig Taylor> ^my last comment was for 'key'
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[18:41:07] <Julian Reschke> mic: it also addresses I18N in field values
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[18:42:13] <fielding> mic: I don't see how mixing JSON in the description is going to help anyone.  There are no JSON header fields. There are syntactic lists, parameters, and strings, each of which can be fully described without ever mentioning JSON.
[18:42:55] <fielding> mic: Key is not an opportunity to define HTTP/3
[18:43:30] <Julian Reschke> mic: it's not a change; it's a format for new header fields
[18:43:59] <Julian Reschke> mic: and the motivation is that most people who define new fields mess things up royally
[18:44:44] <fielding> funny, I never had that problem ;-)
[18:45:21] <Julian Reschke> mic: Keith is confusing the message format with the field value format
[18:45:37] <Tony Hansen> (that was PBH talking)
[18:45:43] <Tony Hansen> (PHB)
[18:45:51] <Julian Reschke> ok
[18:46:10] <Julian Reschke> there is no "all of them"
[18:46:42] <fielding> Darth MNot needs a less sensitive mic
[18:46:55] <Julian Reschke> mic: it can be an informative document
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[18:47:36] Julian Reschke nods
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[18:48:42] Julian Reschke agrees with "youcan opt-in to this"
[18:50:04] <fielding> We could reinvent logic bags: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg-old/1995SepDec/0687.html
[18:50:06] <Tony Hansen> hum to providing a standardized way to do new headers
[18:50:29] <mikebishop> mic, channelling Rob Trace:  This could encourage data smuggling in headers.
[18:51:20] <fielding> curious, why would sending data in headers be smuggling?
[18:51:24] <mikebishop> *further* encourage.  ;-)
[18:52:09] <Julian Reschke> it creates a standard format for smuggling
[18:52:21] <Tony Hansen> ha
[18:52:22] Julian Reschke ducks
[18:52:33] <mikebishop> Because in HTTP/2, it's not flow-controlled while payload is.  Roberto had previously raised the issue that the distinction could lead apps to stuff more in the header fields than they already do.
[18:52:40] <Tony Hansen> discussing http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tbray-http-legally-restricted-status
[18:57:53] <fielding> mike: but that wouldn't be smuggling.  cheating, maybe, but flow-control is completely useless as a defense against bad actors.
[18:58:26] <Tony Hansen> Roy, is that a comment for http-legally-restricted-status?
[18:58:43] <Tony Hansen> no, sorry, "mike:" != "mic:"
[18:58:45] <fielding> no, that was to mike bishop, not mic
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[19:03:45] <Tony Hansen> discussing http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reschke-rfc5987bis
[19:03:50] <Julian Reschke> mic: it was a WG spec
[19:04:27] <Tony Hansen> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reschke-http-cice
[19:04:30] <Julian Reschke> mic: or I confused it with RFC 6266
[19:04:31] <Tony Hansen> on to http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reschke-http-cice
[19:04:38] <Julian Reschke> mic: sorry
[19:05:40] <Julian Reschke> mic: I addressed those issues that came up  during the last meeting (hopefully)
[19:06:02] <Tony Hansen> Julian, is that a comment about http-cice?
[19:06:10] <Julian Reschke> si
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[19:08:16] <Tony Hansen> on to http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-http-patch-status
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[19:09:04] <fielding> mic: yuck!
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[19:09:55] <fielding> mic: that would effectively make ALL requests Vary
[19:11:16] <Tony Hansen> on to http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-west-origin-cookies and http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-west-first-party-cookies
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[19:13:48] <fielding> mic: actually, it wouldn't require Vary -- it would just impact intermediaries which would not be able to cache what would have been a 200, so it ends up being like 206.
[19:14:14] <fielding> (that was about 2NN patch
[19:15:21] <Tony Hansen> discuss http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-http-encryption-encoding
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[19:17:37] <Erik Nygren> (Martin is barely audible on the audio stream)
[19:20:48] <Tony Hansen> on to http/1.1 to full standard https://github.com/httpwg/http11bis
[19:22:03] <Julian Reschke> mic: I agree, no further thoughtd
[19:22:06] <fielding> reaching for a trout
[19:22:40] <Tony Hansen> on to H2 Deployment Advice
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[19:33:51] <Tony Hansen> on to MPEG DASH
[19:34:40] <Tony Hansen> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/92/slides/slides-92-httpbis-0.pdf
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[19:38:46] <Julian Reschke> mic: a request to push really sounds like a ...GET
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[19:39:46] <fielding> mic: how is this better than pipelined GET requests?
[19:40:22] <fielding> mic: or multiple requests in h2?
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[19:44:22] <Craig Taylor> mic: i have concerns over how push affect the ABR semantics also. aiui server push will drop the asset in the browser cache and client heuristics may be blind to this (MArtin et al to confirm)
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[19:56:49] <fielding> there is nothing preventing the server from declining a GET because it is obsolete (410 Gone)
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