httpbis - Thursday, 29 March 2012

httpbis

httpbis@jabber.ietf.org

Thursday, 29 March 2012< ^ >

Martin Dürst has set the subject to: IETF HTTPbis Working Group - IETF83 Paris (252a/241)

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[13:21:08] <Ted Hardie> Can everyone who is local get the audio?
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[13:25:01] <stpeter> etherpad at http://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/minutes
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[13:27:14] <hildjj> I will channel your comments here. Please prefix with "MIC:" if you want that service.
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[13:27:26] <hildjj> your comments *from here* to the mic.
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[13:28:40] <julian> Anybody remote listening? How is sound quality?
[13:29:47] <Sharad Agarwal (Microsoft Research)> sound quality is good for me
[13:30:06] <SM> It's fine, Julian
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[13:51:41] <Kelvin> is there a meetecho link for remotely viewing the slides?
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[13:53:48] <Kelvin> hummm
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[13:54:39] <SM> Kelvin, no
[13:54:48] <Kelvin> thx.
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[13:55:43] <Martin Thomson> Roy is arguing for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auteur_theory
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[13:57:19] <lel> Go to tools.ietf.org and use is
[13:57:35] <lel> Agenda links
[13:57:39] <Bjoern A. Zeeb> And there is no scribe either for jabber?
[13:58:03] <Sharad Agarwal (Microsoft Research)> scribing seems to be happening at http://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/minutes
[13:58:08] <lel> See etherpad link,
[13:58:20] <julian> (don't overload it)
[13:59:11] <stpeter> please join the etherpad if you need to, especially if you want to help scribing (!), but not just for the fun of it
[13:59:27] <stpeter> (says one of the scribes)
[13:59:39] <lel> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/83/materials.html#wg-httpbis
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[14:00:14] <stpeter> that said, remote participants especially feel free to watch the etherpad
[14:01:18] <sftcd> @stpeter: be nice to have a read-only log from the etherpad like we do for jabber, I'll mail henrik
[14:01:36] <stpeter> sftcd: right
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[14:04:14] <lel> Currently on slide 18 http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/slides/slides-83-httpbis-6.pdf
[14:05:17] <hta> Aplogies to the room about the abuse & overuse of figures of speech.
[14:05:59] <stpeter> hta: :)
[14:06:07] <=JeffH> "killing babies" was apparently xlated to "better to kill of candidates" in the minutes :)
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[14:06:24] <hta> the notetakers have better sense than me :-)
[14:06:30] <stpeter> =JeffH: the notes are santizied for family distribution
[14:06:53] <=JeffH> all: indeed
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[14:07:40] <stpeter> is there volume for remote folks?
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[14:08:00] <SM> No
[14:08:06] <SM> He may be far from the mic
[14:08:07] <SM> Better
[14:08:32] <stpeter> SM: ok I asked him to be louder
[14:08:33] <SM> Still low volume
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[14:08:43] <stpeter> yes
[14:09:31] <SM> A little better
[14:09:43] <hildjj> SM: that's probably the best we can do, sorry.
[14:09:57] <SM> Thanks anyway, guys
[14:10:24] <stpeter> SM: we're trying :)
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[14:14:23] <stpeter> so HTTP is a (TCP-)subversive technology?
[14:15:57] <Ted Hardie> I think people say "fairness challenging technology".
[14:15:58] <SM> It's a transport protocol :-)
[14:16:32] <stpeter> :)
[14:17:45] <Sharad Agarwal (Microsoft Research)> anyone know which slide he is on?
[14:17:56] <yoiwa> 3. Header Compression
[14:18:02] <Kelvin> slide 18.
[14:18:17] <Sharad Agarwal (Microsoft Research)> thx
[14:19:16] <hildjj> ekr: they have a static compression dict starting point, which should allow the headers to compress even better than normal streams, particularly if there are a small number of requests on the stream
[14:19:21] <yoiwa> ...Slides 20s rapidly
[14:19:48] <pcl> slide: deployment
[14:19:54] <yoiwa> Slide 30: Deployment
[14:21:26] <yoiwa> "Better enemy of good"
[14:22:10] <yoiwa> Wny not SCTP?
[14:22:40] <yoiwa> Why note Pipelining?
[14:24:35] <yoiwa> Why 1 Connection?
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[14:26:31] <yoiwa> SPDY for Mobile: Mobile is different
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[14:26:53] <Ted Hardie> Warm, warm pockets
[14:27:10] <hildjj> liar, liar, pants on fire.
[14:27:26] <yoiwa> SPDY and Mobile
[14:29:02] <yoiwa> The Tough Stuff: Don't make things "optional"
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[14:30:29] <Ted Hardie> Absolute URIs were almost the cause of HTTP revving to 2.0 many years ago.
[14:30:34] <Ted Hardie> The Host: header avoided that.
[14:30:45] <Ted Hardie> Still not sure that was the right design choice....
[14:30:54] <yoiwa> Security
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[14:31:46] <Martin Thomson> @Ted: the host header still doesn't give you enough information to identify the resource that the client is asking about, so yes, I tend to think that it is the wrong choice
[14:31:59] <yoiwa> Slide: Insecure Protocols Hurt Users
[14:32:25] <yoiwa> Insecure Protocols Enable Transparent Proxies
[14:32:56] <Ted Hardie> It was really meant to ensure you didn't consume more IP addresses to disambiguate.
[14:33:08] <Ted Hardie> Anything above that was gravy.
[14:33:27] <yoiwa> Slide: SSL is not Expensive
[14:33:54] <yoiwa> Recognizing Different Requirements
[14:34:12] <yoiwa> We have distinct use cases
[14:36:31] <yoiwa> Slide: End User HTTP
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[14:37:07] <yoiwa> That's all.
[14:37:26] <yoiwa> Slide sets: HTTP 2.0 Speed+Mobility
[14:37:38] <yoiwa> Slide 2: Principles for HTTP 2.0
[14:39:24] <stpeter> "HTTP/2.0: respect your elders" :)
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[14:42:49] <yoiwa> Slide 3: HTTP Speed+Mobility
[14:43:44] <julian> "HTTP SM"
[14:47:52] <yoiwa> Slide set: HTTP/2.0 : Intermediary Requirements
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[14:49:17] <yoiwa> Slide 2: Issues intermediaries are currently facing
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[14:52:28] <yoiwa> Slide 3: A few numbers
[14:53:54] <yoiwa> Slide 4: What intermediaries need
[14:55:29] <yoiwa> Slide 5: Step 1 : reduce message parsing costs
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[14:56:14] <EKR > I feel like using TLS all the time would make life very easy for intermediaries
[14:56:49] <yoiwa> Slide 6: Step 2 : factor out redundant processing
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[14:58:22] <yoiwa> Slide 7: Step 3: encourage out-of-order processing and multiplexed connections
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[14:59:08] <stpeter> "no one should ever need more than 64k requests per connection" :)
[14:59:22] <yoiwa> Slide 8: Example : before reduction
[14:59:46] <yoiwa> Slide 9 : Example : after reduction
[15:00:21] <yoiwa> Slide 10: Benefits
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[15:01:08] <yoiwa> Slide 11: Next steps
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[15:02:26] <yoiwa> Slide set: The Waka Protocol
[15:03:20] <yoiwa> Slide 2: Waka
[15:03:28] <yoiwa> Slide 3: HTTP
[15:03:43] <yoiwa> Slide 4: HTTP Syntax
[15:04:48] <yoiwa> Slide 5: Issues: Wasted syntax
[15:05:23] <yoiwa> Slide 6: Issues: Not Self-descriptive
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[15:07:18] <yoiwa> Slide 7: Issues: Head-of-Line Blocking
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[15:09:48] <yoiwa> Slide 8: Waka
[15:10:41] <yoiwa> Slide 9: New Request Semantics
[15:12:26] <yoiwa> Slide 10: New Response Semantics
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[15:14:34] <yoiwa> Slide 11: Waka Syntax
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[15:16:58] <yoiwa> Slide 12: Future Plans
[15:17:48] <yoiwa> Finished Presentations.
[15:17:56] <Sharad Agarwal (Microsoft Research)> yoiwa -- thank you for identifying the slides!!
[15:18:06] <yoiwa> You're welcome.
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