IETF
homenet@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, November 13, 2017< ^ >
tomek has set the subject to: Homenet @ IETF'98 (Chicago)
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[07:47:32] <Juliusz Chroboczek> Hi Michael, hello Matthieu.
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[07:48:01] <Matthieu Boutier> Hi Juliusz !
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[07:54:06] <Juliusz Chroboczek> Does anyone have a link to the meeting materials?
[07:54:07] <Mikael Abrahamsson> Terry Manderson at mic
[07:54:31] <Juliusz Chroboczek> Hum
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[07:56:16] <Juliusz Chroboczek> meetecho: could we please have the camera on the speaker?
[07:56:46] <sftcd> @juliusz: it'll swivel in a bit I bet
[07:56:51] <meetecho> (y)
[07:56:59] <Juliusz Chroboczek> Thanks.
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[07:57:03] <ray> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/#homenet
[07:57:14] <ray> (materials link)
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[08:01:45] <Juliusz Chroboczek> What's the point of a downstream router if you cannot route to it?  (Not for mic.)
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[08:02:53] <Mikael Abrahamsson> juliusz: If it does NAT44, then they're still fine (as long as they don't have overlapping IPv4 space on WAN and LAN.
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[08:04:09] <Juliusz Chroboczek> That's me :-)
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[08:09:47] <Mikael Abrahamsson> Ted Lemon at mic
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[08:11:14] David Schinazi has set the subject to: Homenet @ IETF 100 (Singapore)
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[08:12:14] <Mikael Abrahamsson> Mikael Abrahamsson at mic
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[08:14:07] <Juliusz Chroboczek> Mikael: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/homenet/current/msg07507.html
[08:14:39] <Mikael Abrahamsson> thanks, I will look at that and comment
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[08:24:25] <Mikael Abrahamsson> Tim Wicinski at mic
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[08:26:50] <sftcd> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-homenet-naming/
[08:27:19] <sftcd> 7 or 8 hands
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[08:31:10] <Mikael Abrahamsson> Andrew Sullivan at mic
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[08:35:53] <Juliusz Chroboczek> The "small minority" is mildly offended.
[08:36:37] <sftcd> small and mild things are good:-)
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[08:39:38] <Mikael Abrahamsson> Stuart Cheshire at mic
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[08:40:28] <Andrew Sullivan> I like the point about making clear where the gaps are
[08:44:53] <Mikael Abrahamsson> Tim Wicinski at mic
[08:46:13] <sftcd> anyone remote also willing to review and comment on the naming draft?
[08:46:30] <Mikael Abrahamsson> David Schinazi at mic
[08:49:37] <Mikael Abrahamsson> David Schinazi at mic
[08:49:42] <Juliusz Chroboczek> mic: I'm not sure this coincides with the thinking of the Babel group.
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[08:54:49] <Andrew Sullivan> I won't go to mic about this since I think it just follows from the discussion Ted and I already had over naming, but it seems to me that several of the requirements here are basically dependencies in the simple naming architecture anyway
[08:55:11] <Andrew Sullivan> because this outline entails the answer to "how do I know what's on the homenet?"
[08:55:22] <Juliusz Chroboczek> What's MUD?
[08:55:31] <Andrew Sullivan> Manufacturer Usage Description
[08:55:37] <Andrew Sullivan> for things like IoT devices
[08:55:50] <Juliusz Chroboczek> Is that a protocol?
[08:55:52] <Andrew Sullivan> I think that would be a fine thing & I would like to see it
[08:55:52] <sftcd> there's a MUD draft in the RFC editor queue or close-to
[08:56:06] <sftcd> @andrew: which "it"?
[08:56:08] <Andrew Sullivan> FSVO "close", I thought?
[08:56:09] <Juliusz Chroboczek> ty, I'll have a look
[08:56:16] <Andrew Sullivan> the MUD interaction
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[08:57:26] <sftcd> last time I read MUD it seemed more suited for enterprise deployment, would that still be fair?
[08:58:13] <Juliusz Chroboczek> draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-05?
[08:58:15] <Andrew Sullivan> Well, I think of MUD as mostly (currently) a capability-assertion mechanism
[08:58:39] <Andrew Sullivan> more than something that has a particular deployment story, though of course the sponsors of the work are aiming it at enterprises
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[08:59:18] <Andrew Sullivan> but speaking as someone who's been on the pointy end of traffic from "smart things" that are really brain dead, I would like homenets to be able to figure out who is supposed to be talking outbound for real
[08:59:52] <Andrew Sullivan> I suppose that saying "I would like this" I ought to be saying what I'm willing to work on, though :)
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[09:00:38] <Mikael Abrahamsson> Tim Wicinski at mic
[09:01:01] <Juliusz Chroboczek> mic: Babel is meeting on Friday, I'm giving a security presentation.
[09:01:07] <Mikael Abrahamsson> Stuart Cheshire at mic
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[09:03:10] <Mikael Abrahamsson> David Schinazi at mic
[09:04:43] <Juliusz Chroboczek> mic: I'm now in a state of panic.
[09:04:55] <Juliusz Chroboczek> (cancel mic)
[09:05:13] <Mikael Abrahamsson> Barbara Stark at mic
[09:05:21] <Mikael Abrahamsson> Terry Manderson was a mic before Barbara
[09:05:26] <Mikael Abrahamsson> at mic
[09:06:05] <sftcd> that security chat is wed 8am @ ietf reg, bring your own brekkie if coming
[09:06:45] <Mikael Abrahamsson> Andrew Sullivan at mic
[09:10:06] <Mikael Abrahamsson> David Schinazi at mic
[09:10:18] <sftcd> last comment reminded me of https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~fms27/papers/1999-StajanoAnd-duckling.pdf
[09:10:18] <Andrew Sullivan> I regret that I have another engagement, but I am willing to work on these issues
[09:10:34] <sftcd> @andrew: great, thankks
[09:11:20] <Juliusz Chroboczek> andrew, yes, it looks like the Homenet WG is rediscovering 20 years of unsolved issues with ad-hoc mesh networking.
[09:11:36] <Juliusz Chroboczek> That was sftcd, not andrew, sorry.
[09:12:08] <sftcd> hopefully not re-discovering, but rather documenting some feasible scheme (which likely was known N years ago)
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[09:13:09] <Juliusz Chroboczek> sftcd, something will have to give.
[09:13:31] <Andrew Sullivan> There do seem to be solutions for many of these issues that have been previously proposed.  But I think the use case here is perhaps more compelling
[09:13:43] <Juliusz Chroboczek> Agreed.
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[09:13:59] <sftcd> browser warnings for password entry over port 80 will hel
[09:14:50] <Andrew Sullivan> It oughta be easy to get various browsers to freak out about port 80 connections in home.arpa :)
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