[13:07:53] tlr joins the room [14:51:16] Matt Womer joins the room [14:51:41] Hi hi [14:52:52] hi matt [15:38:42] amachin joins the room [15:38:46] martin.thomson joins the room [15:39:15] thanks for coming Matt and Angel [15:40:01] Hi Martin [15:40:10] tlr waves [15:42:30] Rosen, Brian joins the room [15:43:20] Welcome to IETF74, I will be your jabber scribe (except during my 5 minutes on -loc-filters [15:45:02] richard.barnes joins the room [15:47:36] Matt Womer waves! [15:47:56] Matt Womer hm, anyone have a pointer to house rules here? Are /me comments off record? [15:48:50] hello! [15:48:51] Alissa Cooper joins the room [15:49:14] This meeting is subject to the IETF Note Well statement [15:49:16] http://www.ietf.org/meetings/74/notewell.html [15:49:53] Basicaly, your comments can be logged and published [15:50:10] (this chat room is logged to a public web server in real time) [15:51:40] Gotcha, thanks Richard. [15:52:45] John Morris joins the room [15:54:22] Audio, slides, and (slightly outdated) agenda: [15:59:36] FYI, I'm getting some GSM buzz on the audio feed. [16:01:51] Ted Hardie joins the room [16:01:51] Ted Hardie leaves the room [16:02:19] Ted Hardie joins the room [16:03:56] shamus joins the room [16:04:01] me joins the room [16:04:10] me is now known as Dan_Connolly [16:04:10] Dan_Connolly is now known as me [16:04:10] me is now known as Dan_Connolly [16:04:12] mlepinski joins the room [16:04:24] Dan_Connolly is now known as Dan Connolly [16:04:24] Dan Connolly is now known as me [16:04:24] me is now known as Dan_Connolly [16:04:24] Dan_Connolly is now known as Dan Connolly [16:04:38] Alex joins the room [16:04:51] Peterson is awarded his Nth bottle of hooch... [16:04:52] Alex has set the subject to: IETF 74 GEOPRIV meeting [16:05:12] ... for his service as area director [16:05:34] Yay, Jon! [16:06:20] chairs hand off more booze to Robert Sparks [16:06:36] clatze joins the room [16:07:36] status of documents being reviewed [16:07:59] Dan Connolly is now known as me [16:07:59] me is now known as Dan_Connolly [16:07:59] Dan_Connolly is now known as Dan Connolly [16:07:59] pidf-lo-profile to be published as RFC5491 soon. [16:08:43] pidf-lo... are there any test materials around? [16:08:54] 5491 has already been published [16:08:58] Re-charter update information presented [16:09:03] (oops, thanks martin) [16:09:24] Dan Connolly is getting oriented... finds geopriv status page ... [16:09:34] Cullen Jennings joins the room [16:10:23] sal joins the room [16:10:29] Dan Connolly can't find pidf-lo... [16:10:35] http://held-location.sourceforge.net/held_js/pidflo.html [16:10:41] RFC 4119 is pidf-lo [16:10:46] (slides: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/09mar/slides/geopriv-0.pdf ) [16:11:08] ysuzuki joins the room [16:12:03] Charter: GEOPRIV will not develop location determination technology itself, but protocols are to carry such information [16:12:14] Milestones slide on screen [16:13:00] Dan Connolly is now known as me [16:13:00] me is now known as Dan_Connolly [16:13:00] Dan_Connolly is now known as Dan Connolly [16:13:44] martin: loc-filters are not going to be that quick [16:13:59] brian says he's getting it done even faster ;) [16:14:11] Randall Gellens joins the room [16:15:24] hannes promised to get some feedback to brian [16:15:46] ted: geo URI not on the list? going to be added? [16:15:55] Richard: yes, will ask the WG today [16:16:18] lellel joins the room [16:16:56] roger / martin: get HELD-deref added, yes. [16:17:03] Barbara Stark joins the room [16:17:31] no further comments to the proposed charter, chairs will proceed with that. [16:17:43] LIS discovery, Martin Thomson [16:17:50] slides: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/09mar/slides/geopriv-1.pdf [16:18:04] Dan Connolly is now known as me [16:18:04] me is now known as Dan_Connolly [16:18:04] Dan_Connolly is now known as Dan Connolly [16:18:29] martin has requested feedback, hasn't seen much of it. [16:18:51] "Authentication" slide on screen [16:19:14] HELD has a normative reference on this doc. [16:20:33] "LIS certificate fingerprint" slide [16:20:59] (btw, if someone attending from remote wants something relayed to the mic, let me know) [16:21:41] richard on floor mic. [16:22:07] Dan Connolly is now known as me [16:22:07] me is now known as Dan_Connolly [16:22:07] Dan_Connolly is now known as Dan Connolly [16:22:27] sub-options for hash function would allow for new algorithms in newer versions [16:22:55] PORGASI joins the room [16:24:11] I. Administrative issues 20m Administrivia/Charter discussion (Chairs) II. Remaining issues with LIS Discovery 30m draft-ietf-geopriv-lis-discovery (Thomson) [16:24:34] options chart on screen [16:26:11] "next steps" slides [16:26:32] ted: asked to re-review the U-NAPTR portion [16:26:44] adams@jabber.isoc.org joins the room [16:27:05] Dan Connolly is now known as me [16:27:05] me is now known as Dan_Connolly [16:27:05] Dan_Connolly is now known as Dan Connolly [16:28:23] Ted: relation between server from DHC vs U-NAPTR? [16:28:48] agreeing that "if you got direct data, prefer it", but might require clarification [16:29:18] Hannes: we have other docs, and those don't have the complicated fingerprint stuff? [16:30:18] Martin: There's no trust anchor that you can use beforehand, that's the difference - provided by an access network. [16:30:30] could be common that DNS based auth is sufficient [16:30:41] but that might not be universally applicable [16:32:07] Dan Connolly is now known as Dan_Connolly [16:32:07] Dan_Connolly is now known as me [16:32:07] me is now known as Dan Connolly [16:32:11] Cullen speaking [16:32:47] need to have that reviewed by the PKIX people [16:33:04] consider carefully to keep it in - might complicate the deployment [16:33:15] and might slow down the WGLC prgress [16:33:33] DDD joins the room [16:34:40] Martin: shame i didn't get those comments on the list long ago ;) [16:35:21] Richard: will talk to security ADs and PKIX people [16:36:17] ray joins the room [16:36:48] next: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/09mar/slides/geopriv-4.pdf [16:36:52] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thomson-geopriv-res-gw-lis-discovery-00 [http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thomson-geopriv-res-gw-lis-discovery-00] [16:36:58] James Polk speaking [16:37:05] Dan Connolly is now known as me [16:37:05] me is now known as Dan_Connolly [16:37:05] Dan_Connolly is now known as Dan Connolly [16:37:33] James tries to avoid the term "convey" at any cost :) [16:38:40] Q: drop or keep version? [16:38:42] Ray: keep it [16:38:49] Alex says keep it as well [16:39:00] suzukisn joins the room [16:40:46] discussion about security model for URIs acquired from DHC [16:40:57] how is it different from the civic DHC option... [16:42:10] Dan Connolly is now known as me [16:42:10] me is now known as Dan Connolly [16:42:10] Dan Connolly is now known as Dan_Connolly [16:43:03] James: server that you use to dereference will ask you security questions. [16:43:41] Martin: can i publish that URI, and others would dereference it? [16:43:46] clatze leaves the room [16:43:46] James: out of scope [16:44:40] James: being the equivalent of given a value [16:44:47] Martin: Posession then? [16:45:29] Ted: please steal off the document about AAA from URIs that we wrote [16:47:14] James: eg. as long as we are in the hotel, URI might not change, but contents might change. [16:47:14] Dan_Connolly is now known as me [16:47:14] me is now known as Dan Connolly [16:47:30] lellel leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [16:49:14] Richard: need to wrap up - need to discuss that on the list. [16:49:47] Brian Rosen (no slides) [16:49:49] next: brian rosen (no slides) [16:49:53] loc-filters [16:52:06] draft-mayrhofer-geopriv-geo-uri [16:52:17] Dan Connolly is now known as me [16:52:17] me is now known as Dan_Connolly [16:52:17] Dan_Connolly is now known as Dan Connolly [16:57:19] Dan Connolly is now known as me [16:57:19] me is now known as Dan_Connolly [16:57:19] Dan_Connolly is now known as Dan Connolly [16:58:10] hmm.. geo:48,16;param-value [16:58:30] param=value [17:01:41] DDD leaves the room [17:01:49] ah... geo: deployed in android [17:02:06] it's nice :) [17:02:22] Dan Connolly is now known as Dan_Connolly [17:02:22] Dan_Connolly is now known as Dan Connolly [17:02:22] Dan Connolly is now known as me [17:02:26] I couldn't quite hear all of Ted's comments. [17:02:28] I wondered how that worked under the covers... whether they used a geo:x,y URI or treated http://maps.google/com?x=y= URIs specially [17:03:07] Ted: are you saying that the approach taken here is not correct, because what's needed is simple tagging of data to identify it, instead of a protocol element to be dereferenced etc.? [17:03:08] the geo: URI is passed automatically to the Google Maps app on Android [17:04:50] Randy: This document is mixing several things: human readable; short; entirely context-dependent protocol mechanics. [17:07:19] That "dereference" means "look at it" means that there isn't a lot of protocol mechanics required. But anything *might* happen. [17:07:24] me is now known as Dan_Connolly [17:07:24] Dan_Connolly is now known as Dan Connolly [17:07:24] Dan Connolly is now known as me [17:11:38] me wonders why my jabber client (adium) keeps changing my nick [17:11:45] me is now known as Dan_Connolly [17:11:45] Dan_Connolly is now known as me [17:11:45] me is now known as Dan_Connolly [17:11:45] Dan_Connolly is now known as Dan Connolly [17:11:50] Dan Connolly heads to the airport... [17:12:17] Dan Connolly leaves the room [17:16:00] In other words, if I have something else in mind, I should write a draft [17:16:42] draft-barnes-geopriv-lo-sec [17:16:42] Ted, yes please - but we had lots of discussions regarding use of "data" URIs in ENUM... [17:17:02] I would not honestly propose a data uri for this. [17:17:11] ok .. [17:17:22] It's just a simple statement that there is a way out there to start elsewhere [17:22:22] this should work for geo: uris in firefox (didn't work for me): javascript:navigator.registerProtocolHandler('geo', 'http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=%s&t=h&z=14', 'Geolocation URI'); [17:23:51] i wrote a plugin once for that - haven't updated it to the newest version yet, though. [17:24:09] will do some updates on that. [17:25:22] shamus leaves the room [17:26:02] Brian: lifecycle - we have found various different ways of distribution - you do generalize.. [17:26:20] Alissa: more details on distribution later [17:27:06] Martin: distribution *does* happen at the configuration stage [17:30:37] Henning: Handling LCP as special case of distribution seems logically cleaner [17:31:09] lellel joins the room [17:34:09] Henning said all that I was going to [17:34:32] We just need a good conceptual model for this [17:35:21] James: concept of "seeker" left out of document? [17:35:43] someone who "want to become a receipient" [17:38:55] Jon: getting the set of agents down is something we should have done a long time ago - useful. [17:41:30] Barbara Stark leaves the room [17:42:42] Martin says that there's no "seeker" defined.. [17:52:28] show hands that this problem should be attacked: in favor [17:52:48] people think this document should be the starting point: some in favour, none opposed [17:52:55] will need to confirm that on the list [17:56:35] Ted Hardie leaves the room [17:56:45] Ted Hardie joins the room [18:06:25] Alex leaves the room: Computer went to sleep [18:10:56] Doug Barton joins the room [18:28:42] ray leaves the room [18:30:35] Randall Gellens leaves the room [18:32:02] Ted Hardie leaves the room [18:32:13] adams@jabber.isoc.org leaves the room [18:32:17] lellel leaves the room [18:32:17] Doug Barton leaves the room [18:32:24] John Morris leaves the room [18:33:03] martin.thomson leaves the room [18:33:30] suzukisn leaves the room [18:33:41] Cullen Jennings leaves the room [18:34:18] Rosen, Brian leaves the room [18:34:21] Matt Womer leaves the room [18:34:44] ysuzuki leaves the room [18:37:10] mlepinski leaves the room [18:40:09] Alissa Cooper leaves the room [18:40:11] richard.barnes leaves the room [18:48:18] sal leaves the room [18:48:35] tlr leaves the room [18:54:36] PORGASI leaves the room [18:54:43] amachin leaves the room [19:47:51] Rosen, Brian joins the room [19:48:45] Rosen, Brian leaves the room [19:58:49] richard.barnes joins the room [19:59:43] Alissa Cooper joins the room [20:00:05] Alissa Cooper leaves the room [20:00:17] Ted Hardie joins the room [20:00:41] richard.barnes leaves the room [20:00:42] Ted Hardie leaves the room [20:04:50] PORGASI joins the room [20:07:55] PORGASI leaves the room [22:38:35] Alex joins the room [22:39:08] Alex leaves the room