[06:51:17] mlm.michael.miller joins the room [06:59:19] mlm.michael.miller leaves the room [07:01:04] mlm.michael.miller joins the room [07:13:36] Rosen, Brian joins the room [07:15:41] jgunn joins the room [07:15:46] richard joins the room [07:17:30] richard leaves the room [07:18:54] Cullen joins the room [07:19:16] could some near a mic say something just to see if it works [07:20:01] richard joins the room [07:23:35] ah Linsner, must be the right room cullen [07:23:45] mlepinski joins the room [07:24:08] :-) [07:24:45] martin should be scribing as soon as he gets online [07:24:53] are remote people getting audio? [07:24:59] yes we are [07:25:11] great [07:25:18] yes, audio is good [07:25:20] Pete McCann joins the room [07:25:23] Kepeng Li joins the room [07:26:01] martin.thomson joins the room [07:26:51] martin.thomson has set the subject to: ECRIT IETF 79 Beijing [07:27:36] richard leaves the room [07:28:10] richard is presenting rough-loc [07:29:34] hannes is now doing the rest of the presentations [07:29:59] aboba joins the room [07:30:21] Alissa Cooper joins the room [07:31:21] richard joins the room [07:31:22] (not for the mic .... ) Brian - your email made sense to me - sorry did not get a chance to reply [07:31:42] if we need something to go to the mic we can prefix with with "mic:" [07:31:45] richard leaves the room [07:31:48] what presentation are we on [07:32:02] It's unfortunately that things like IMEI need to go up [07:32:06] richard joins the room [07:32:09] RjS joins the room [07:32:34] Good, thanks, and I agree [07:32:54] Brian: is HTTPS a "MUST use"? [07:32:57] http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/79/slides/ecrit-0.pptx [07:33:06] it seems like this might be used within a trusted domain, where HTTP might not be necessary [07:33:47] well, not usually, but there might be a trusted connection between, say PSAP and carrier [07:33:57] https really should be the normal case [07:34:18] but credentials might be hard to validate [07:37:28] Randall Gellens joins the room [07:38:36] I have been talking with the authors of the vcard xml draft and it looks appropriate for this use [07:39:15] so Martin are you suggesting we go back to the XML structure we originally proposed [07:39:54] Brian, I think that's right, I'll channel when Hannes shuts up a little [07:41:48] jon-ietf joins the room [07:42:51] There is no case of anyone inserting info [07:43:10] You mean, no case for a third party inserting info? [07:43:11] There is no medical data (NENA has a different way to do that) [07:43:24] That is right, there is no case [07:43:33] Thanks [07:43:48] brian: do you mean that everything is UA-inserted? [07:44:20] UA or the carrier [07:44:34] The carrier is not inserting data on behalf of someone else [07:44:43] brian: UA or carrier? who inserts the header? [07:44:47] or is this just UA? [07:45:06] A service provider can insert ITS OWN data [07:45:20] OK, what about the UA? [07:45:32] The UA can insert it's own data [07:45:34] (I'm in line...) [07:45:39] right, got it [07:45:49] there is no "on behalf of" [07:45:54] :) [07:46:00] mic: so clearly anybody on the signaling path can insert anything. But they can also remove anything - is that an issue? [07:46:29] cullen: good question [07:46:31] Could be, but not anything we really worry about [07:46:45] so this is non-critical stuff... [07:46:52] correct [07:46:59] useful, but not critical [07:48:20] The identity of the inserter is in the XML [07:48:47] cullen: yeah, probably want a MUST NOT delete [07:48:57] not for mic - We could have the 404 "you must submit agreement to our EULA + add your SIN number before we forward your call to psap" [07:49:03] yes [07:49:29] well, we could, but this doesn't change stuff [07:49:37] cullen: 1 <= SIN number <= 7 ? [07:49:56] Alissa Cooper leaves the room [07:50:16] martin.thomson leaves the room [07:50:35] Alissa Cooper joins the room [07:50:36] The NENA people are thinking that this draft has Additional Data about a Caller, it's not in this draft [07:50:37] seriously, it's hard to imagine the SP having an incentive to remove something that the UA wanted to get to the PSAP - It worth thinking about but seems unlikely to be a problem [07:50:47] right [07:51:49] Cullen, there could be a couple of SPs in the path = a relay center (ASL) and a carrier [07:51:53] anyone willing to jabber scribe? martin just dropped [07:51:58] Gonzalo joins the room [07:52:00] I can jabber scribe [07:52:05] thanks [07:52:07] Thanks [07:54:03] Cullen had some good comments on some of the data which we will work on and start some discussion on the list [07:56:06] Jonathan Lennox joins the room [07:56:22] Hey that sensor is just the shield with no arduino attached to the bottom - this will never work [07:57:18] grumph - half a meg for 5 slides [07:57:26] Alissa Cooper leaves the room [07:57:40] oops we lost our second scribe [07:57:45] Alissa Cooper joins the room [07:57:55] and she's bacl [07:58:02] sorry vpn crapped out [07:59:07] Cullen: I think the relevant catch phrase is "The network is the computer" [08:00:53] martin.thomson joins the room [08:01:52] I work in the "fog" part of cloud computing [08:05:08] I think we should use the same routing, just as if it was a voice call [08:06:00] Brian agrees with Martin [08:06:25] The sender can correctly set the Geolocation header [08:07:03] The sender can copy the cap location into the Geolocation header if it needed to [08:09:49] oh, we can remind you [08:10:26] callback... [08:10:59] OK, we note Cullen has volunteered to remind him about the review! Thanks for volunteering, Cullen :) [08:11:25] does anyone know how to spell our good volunteer's name? [08:12:02] sohel kahn [08:12:03] mic: Hannes - I apologize I reviewed version 01 - I see 02 is the current one. I will read the current one and provide review in next few weeks [08:15:13] I forgot to make comments, about the data only draft, should it be moved to ATOCA group, since it is highly related to Emergency Alert [08:16:16] I think that's been proposed before as well; I need to talk to ecrit chairs and our ADs about that one. Technically, it's in the remit of ecrit. [08:16:35] OK, thanks [08:16:55] yes, its citizen to authority, which is ecrit [08:17:04] atoca to authority to citizen [08:17:24] so it belongs in ecrit [08:17:36] the only reason that atoca might take it is that ecrit is pretty bogged down right now; but that's probably a foolish optimization [08:17:44] yes [08:17:56] atoca has to get it's main bit of work out [08:18:06] before it could get sidelined [08:18:31] OK, understand, because the direction is from citizen to authority, atoca is the opposite direction [08:18:38] yes [08:18:52] Kepeng: precisely [08:19:06] sensors sending alerts to central authrorities == ecrit [08:19:12] yes [08:19:21] central authorities sending alerts to people in danger == atoca [08:19:29] Thanks, get it [08:20:01] richard: are you calling me a sensor? that's a rude generalization [08:21:00] martin: from the perspective of the network, you're pulling in information.... [08:21:02] Sohel_Khan@cable.comcast.com [08:21:13] But this one, call back, if from PSAP to citizen, right? [08:21:24] Kepeng: Good point! [08:21:34] but it's still point-to-point [08:21:40] ATOCA is multicast [08:21:48] and it's related to a prior call [08:21:57] sensors sending alerts to people in danger == not atoca :-) [08:22:42] and the ecrit/atoca boundary is allowed to be fuzzy :) [08:23:08] right [08:23:11] I like the token idea actually [08:23:29] token works for me too [08:23:36] OK, atoca is just for alert, that is, text, but ecrit handles call, maybe this is the difference [08:23:36] anyone who needs verification can add a token [08:23:49] atoca: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rsXUtnpJ6FM/TJmUGvdGZgI/AAAAAAAABI0/ZgiBK8OPtwE/s1600/DangerWillRobinson.jpg [08:24:10] could be more than one token. Any entity needing authentication could add one [08:24:21] Kepeng: that's a pretty good summary [08:24:52] Brian: entities in the path could make note of the token assigned by the originator instead of adding their own, no? [08:25:09] could, if that works for them [08:25:18] sohel's back at the mike [08:25:38] is the back mic on? making it to the audio stream? [08:25:48] Yes. [08:25:49] yes, we can hear [08:26:54] mic: So I realize why I reviewed the wrong version of this draft. I came out yesterday. Others might want to check which one they read [08:27:14] s/i came out/ It came out / [08:28:09] martin this would be true of any info in the call [08:28:14] I saw Cullen's message in multiple groups. do we have multiple Cullen? [08:28:29] oh, no please. no [08:29:04] I pretty sure I only sent my message about coming out to this group [08:29:43] :-) [08:30:26] Gonzalo leaves the room [08:30:48] gcamaril joins the room [08:37:29] Paul cracks me up - just about spewed my beverage on my keyboard , and +1 paul [08:37:40] Is the question "which solution that doesn't work are you going to choose?" [08:38:33] that sounds right [08:38:55] to both cullen and bernard :) [08:40:06] seems like we need another approach, or just to let that one go [08:40:42] Mic: Some similar threats are discussed.... point is to differentiate this document from those. [08:44:02] [08:44:14] duly noted [08:44:46] Would like a solution, even if imperfect [08:45:31] Mic: There may be solutions to *some* threats.. but at least we need to articulate what threats might be addressable.... [08:45:38] that's fine [08:45:48] much, much better than no solution [08:45:49] bernard: sorry, got your mic comment too late [08:45:52] bernard: sorry, missed the slot [08:45:58] but I totally agree [08:46:00] np [08:50:53] Mic: Section 6.2 still includes some problematic material, such as use of the "emergency.com" realm (which is actually registered to a commercial entity). EMU found a number of issues with this section also. [08:51:12] I'll get that, mics are out right now... [08:52:07] Mic: Section 6.3 also has issues (you can't use anonymous DH with EAP-TLS, RFC 5216). [08:53:02] I'll file the issues in TRAC. [08:55:20] over folks! [08:55:28] thanks for staying up late [08:55:31] mlepinski leaves the room [08:55:35] see ya [08:55:36] Cullen leaves the room [08:55:45] aboba leaves the room [08:55:57] Jonathan Lennox leaves the room [08:56:03] Pete McCann leaves the room [08:56:13] jgunn leaves the room [08:56:18] RjS leaves the room [08:56:25] Kepeng Li leaves the room [08:56:27] Rosen, Brian leaves the room [08:56:55] richard leaves the room [08:56:57] Randall Gellens leaves the room [08:58:06] martin.thomson leaves the room [08:58:57] Alissa Cooper leaves the room [09:02:57] jon-ietf leaves the room [09:03:54] gcamaril leaves the room [09:04:53] Jonathan Lennox joins the room [09:05:57] Jonathan Lennox leaves the room [09:06:00] Alissa Cooper joins the room [09:06:51] Randall Gellens joins the room [09:07:17] Randall Gellens leaves the room [09:09:35] Alissa Cooper leaves the room [13:42:08] mlm.michael.miller leaves the room [15:46:24] martin.thomson joins the room