[15:37:57] martin.thomson joins the room [15:39:52] martin.thomson has set the subject to: IETF 77 - Anaheim, ECRIT WG [15:39:57] martin.thomson leaves the room [15:49:37] martin.thomson joins the room [15:50:53] martin.thomson has set the subject to: IETF 77 - Anaheim; ECRIT WG; Audio: [15:58:15] mlepinski joins the room [15:58:22] mlepinski leaves the room [15:58:46] guycaron joins the room [15:59:09] good morning guy [15:59:19] Good morning Martin [16:00:21] No audio for me - blocked by the corporate network [16:00:41] ouch [16:00:49] Roger is just kicking this off [16:01:10] mlepinski joins the room [16:01:25] I'm not sure that I'll be able to keep you updated [16:01:31] suzukisn joins the room [16:02:21] Randall Gellens joins the room [16:02:31] we're into the introductions - agenda [16:04:09] as0-d91k joins the room [16:04:40] we're going to discuss items and then, at the end, we'll discuss which if these need milestone items [16:04:41] Adam Uzelac joins the room [16:04:58] we've got a lot of small presentations [16:05:05] mlepinski leaves the room [16:05:25] document status [16:06:13] martin.thomson has set the subject to: IETF 77 - Anaheim; ECRIT WG [16:09:19] we're having some audio troubles here [16:10:01] on to discussion of ad-hoc interim on psap callback [16:10:39] ieee introduction slides [16:10:56] these aren't up on the internet yet [16:11:27] 802emergency services exec committee study group - Geoff Thompson presenting [16:11:53] Alissa Cooper joins the room [16:12:50] EC SG - 802.23 [16:13:34] was 802.21 [16:14:43] 802.21 tried to have too large a scope [16:14:56] intent of 802.23 is to support IETF VoIP [16:15:05] citizen to authority [16:15:11] with callback [16:15:28] limit scope to ECRIT/IETF VoIP [16:16:42] hannes comment: this isn't just voice, but this will be all multimedia communication [16:17:17] scope: statement has lots of words [16:17:57] intent with liaise with IETF/ECRIT and work on location [16:19:04] next meeting is in Geneva, but other meetings planned [16:19:07] dale joins the room [16:19:10] late may [16:19:23] co-loc with 802.1 and 802.3 [16:20:29] no documents; intend to pass to ecrit through liaison [16:22:43] comments now, I'll try to keep up [16:22:49] mlepinski joins the room [16:23:04] James P: not being inflammatory... [16:23:34] What was the web site? [16:23:44] Was it http://ieee802.org/esg.html ? [16:23:53] that was mentioned [16:24:03] the slides just went down, I'm afraid [16:24:11] I wasn't sure I got the "replace dot with foo" correct [16:24:20] it was mentor.ieee.org/802-sg-emergency-serivces/documents or something close to that [16:24:29] I think I heard "esg" [16:24:33] or ecsg [16:24:51] thanks [16:25:16] james W: concerned about this not being access agnostic [16:26:34] going back; James P was concerned that this work would try to bypass IP in one or other ways [16:27:27] richard and jon were saying that this might be better in geopriv as location is the more access-specific portion of the work [16:28:24] gabor bajko: apparently location is not in the scope of this ecsg work [16:29:05] gabor: ethertype definition - "pre-stoneage technology" [16:29:22] response: to deal with unauthenticated access [16:31:23] bernard suggested that liaison volunteers talk to him or hannes [16:31:55] dirk on unauthenticated access [16:32:19] Unauthenticated emergency services - Dirk Kroeselberg [16:32:59] richard.barnes joins the room [16:33:14] slide - lack of isp authentication [16:33:32] next - lack of vsp/asp authn [16:34:45] slide - status [16:35:34] request for review [16:36:01] henning to mic [16:37:25] jgunn joins the room [16:37:28] henning would like to discuss the technical aspects [16:38:49] security problem: gain access to network without authorization [16:39:04] do we avoid technical solutions to the problem? [16:39:32] bernard aboba on mic [16:40:20] bernard: lots of technical options: l3 filters, l2 filters, vlans, etc... [16:41:01] henning: not possible to know the actual destination of a call (the psap end) [16:41:21] henning: (implied) hard to use filters in the described way [16:42:40] marc: same concerns as henning [16:43:58] henning: problem seems superficially simple, so document should explain why it isn't [16:44:32] provide the info, let policy makers decide [16:45:28] avoid people doing the simple, but stupid things (at least in ignorance) [16:46:10] geoff: have had discussions about l1/l2 options for solving this (ecsg advertisement) [16:47:06] thought henning just explained why even L3 solutions aren't really full solutions... [16:47:10] hannes: unauthenticated access seems likely in some jurisdictions [16:47:44] @rb I think that he did - but in response to bernard's suggestions on using vlans, etc... [16:48:28] henning: wouldn't leave technical solutions to jurisdictions, if we need technical solutions [16:50:31] @rb I don't necessarily think that this precludes l1/l2 options, with the previso that they actually help [16:50:35] Alissa Cooper leaves the room [16:51:00] ba: decorated nai as "bad idea(TM)" [16:52:16] Was 5216 the RFC that Bernard just cited at the microphone? [16:52:23] I think so [16:52:44] james p [16:52:56] Transformations ID - James Polk [16:54:06] slide: what for? [16:54:41] urn:service:transformation [16:54:51] sub-services for geocoding and reverse thereof [16:56:38] jr112 joins the room [16:59:14] henning: we're getting ahead of ourselves here [17:00:20] henning: to paraphrase: "go back to requirements" :p [17:05:41] conclusion: discuss elsewhere (I think) [17:05:53] ECRIT Direct - James Winterbottom [17:06:40] @mt: yeah, pretty much [17:06:44] (re: conclusion) [17:07:13] emergency calling slide [17:08:19] slide: keep it local [17:09:55] slide: simple profile [17:10:45] dale leaves the room [17:11:40] Dale Worley joins the room [17:11:56] slide: security [17:13:37] marc l: are we building a relationship between isps and psaps? [17:13:46] Alissa Cooper joins the room [17:13:56] james w: yes, the relationship is implied [17:14:38] ml: the onus is on the jurisdiction to mandate this [17:15:10] jw: regulators are still struggling with the regulatory problems with voip, they aren't up to considering this right now [17:15:52] henning s: we don't write regulations, we explain the options, provide well-reasoned technical discussion of each [17:17:59] Dale Worley leaves the room [17:18:02] Dale Worley joins the room [17:18:36] br: nena like talking to vsps [17:19:22] br: but they will take any call [17:20:37] br: contact is enough, registration not necessary [17:21:07] jw: disagrees [17:21:53] gt: tends to agree with statement on trust, but doesn't think that isp numbers are bounded [17:23:49] Brian is presenting, no slides online... [17:23:59] additional information [17:28:42] lots of slides... [17:30:40] thrasher joins the room [17:31:26] hs at mic [17:32:30] hs: need to be easy to add things [17:32:36] Dale Worley leaves the room [17:32:39] Dale Worley joins the room [17:33:03] next presentation is on completed data [17:33:29] thrasher leaves the room [17:33:55] lost validation slide - civic includes enough to uniquely identify the location [17:34:11] other fields might be useful, or there might be alternative forms [17:36:30] mechanism, add attribute to lost, get a location back [17:42:29] small, but decent-sized group have read these [17:42:46] http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-rosen-ecrit-data-only-ea [17:42:48] no slides [17:42:58] thrasher joins the room [17:43:05] thrasher leaves the room [17:43:07] my mistake: Data Only Emergency Calls - Brian Rosen [17:43:21] emergency call when there is no media [17:44:01] no INVITE, use CAP and MESSAGE [17:44:09] location-based routing for the MESSAGE message [17:45:37] smc: why not http? [17:46:48] br: there are a few things that are needed, MIME for CAP, and other minor points [17:47:55] keith drage [17:48:21] hannes, there is no eCall for IP devices [17:49:40] br: eCall payload might go in CAP, or maybe CAP is THE format [17:50:08] Emergency Text Messaging with SIP MESSAGE - Henning [17:51:27] no session [17:51:47] routing therefore occurs for each message [17:52:21] don't want messages to be distributed to multiple destinations [17:53:04] need soft state on each proxy to ensure that messages get routed consistently [17:54:41] location in SMS...hard [17:56:30] keith drage: 3GPP deals with SMS-IM gateways [17:57:18] hs: easier to do page mode - stateless [17:57:19] Dale Worley leaves the room [17:57:59] ben: these are pseudo-sessions, be explicit [17:58:08] Dale Worley joins the room [17:58:36] jr112 leaves the room [17:58:39] ben: don't just rely on proxies building state - build explicit mechanisms [17:58:53] hs: willing to entertain other options [17:59:21] jw: direct [17:59:51] hs: doesn't work [18:01:57] br: bananas [18:02:06] Alissa Cooper leaves the room [18:02:14] br: we need to talk about location [18:02:50] Service URN Update and Service Classification - Henning [18:05:12] hs: need to constrain the problem [18:10:54] fluffy: hard to make progress [18:11:43] ray joins the room [18:12:02] I think Cullen meant "leverage", not "steal" ;0) [18:13:14] @ray: stealing might be it [18:17:26] charter discussion [18:19:21] recharter as LoST Infrastructre Maintenance and Extensions == LIME [18:22:37] ray leaves the room [18:24:31] We are [18:24:52] We are implementing RPH- Please note [18:26:02] Adam Uzelac leaves the room [18:26:02] ok, will do [18:26:06] Randall Gellens leaves the room [18:26:15] richard.barnes leaves the room [18:26:36] suzukisn leaves the room [18:26:36] as0-d91k leaves the room [18:26:43] guycaron leaves the room [18:27:06] mlepinski leaves the room [18:28:03] Dale Worley leaves the room [18:28:38] martin.thomson leaves the room [18:38:05] jgunn leaves the room [19:46:04] martin.thomson joins the room [19:51:07] martin.thomson leaves the room [20:00:06] Dale Worley joins the room [20:02:16] Dale Worley leaves the room