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[10:19:17] * xiaodong has changed the subject to: EAI WG meeting, Prague[Room Athens]
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[10:23:48] <xiaodong> no bashing about agenda
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[10:25:13] <resnick> I'll scribe here a bit.
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[10:25:18] <resnick> -framework: done
[10:25:36] <resnick> Now discussing: draft-ietf-eai-smtpext-04
[10:25:42] <resnick> Issues:
[10:25:59] <resnick> Clarify need to not "just-send-8"
[10:26:22] <resnick> Disposition of HDR=UTF8SMTP
[10:27:02] <resnick> Agenda slides
[10:27:39] <resnick> Is there anyone out there in TV-land?
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[10:28:03] <resnick> (Much silence except for Harald heard in the room.)
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[10:29:31] <xiaodong> 3 need the marker
[10:29:38] <xiaodong> 10 d't need that
[10:29:55] <cyrus_daboo> FYI not getting any audio at all
[10:30:13] <resnick> Randy: There should be some way to mark a message that it does/does not require UTF8 handling.
[10:30:27] <cyrus_daboo> You are in Ayhens/Barcelona/Berlin, right?
[10:30:33] <resnick> Athens.
[10:30:41] <resnick> Want to listen in from my Mac?
[10:30:57] <cyrus_daboo> Lets try
[10:31:05] <cyrus_daboo> I will audio you...
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[10:31:45] <resnick> (I'm going to stop typing; would someone else jabber scribe the room? Otherwise, Cyrus will hear me typing.)
[10:32:17] <randy> The question I was asking was: when a UTF8SMTP server receives a message, how does it know if it needs to only send the message to a UTF8SMTP server? The answer is: it must examine the envelope and headers to determine this,
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[10:37:04] <healthyao> rough consensus: no need of hdr=utf8smtp parameter
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[10:37:39] <resnick> Significantly rough.
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[10:40:44] <healthyao> chris said some issues about DSN
[10:41:59] <healthyao> open issue: %utf8 or \uUnicdoe?
[10:42:46] <healthyao> chris: I think peope should read this and think about this
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[10:44:07] <healthyao> John try to resolve this issue
[10:46:17] <healthyao> need coin to decide %utf8 or \uUnicode be selected
[10:49:12] <healthyao> editor chris: talk about application/utf8smtp vs message/utf8smtp
[10:54:23] <healthyao> john: something we did not treat properly is already broken
[10:55:35] <healthyao> appplication/utf8smtp: no supporters
[10:56:00] <healthyao> most support message/utf8smtp
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[10:57:13] <healthyao> chris raise another issue: text/utf8headers vs message/utf8headers
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[11:00:36] <healthyao> 2 support text/utf8headers ;; 5 support message/utf8headers
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[11:00:57] <healthyao> now move to downgrade issues
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[11:02:08] <patrik@frobbit.se> Issues:
[11:02:13] <patrik@frobbit.se> - Usefullness of "upgrading"
[11:02:25] <patrik@frobbit.se> - Explicitly document that reverting is impossible?
[11:02:37] <patrik@frobbit.se> - How much information to preserve in Downgraded headers?
[11:02:49] <patrik@frobbit.se> - What to do about uFor in Received: headers?
[11:03:00] <patrik@frobbit.se> Draft: draft-ietf-eai-downgrade-03
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[11:07:58] <healthyao> peter: some upgrading issues may be moved into imap or pop documents
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[11:11:53] <healthyao> chris: it may be good to do upgrading as late as possilbe
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[11:16:57] <randy> upgrade in network likely to result in corruption (long history to back this up)
[11:17:49] <randy> upgrade can be done by recipient system (during final delivery, if utf8 mail store, or during pop/imap if ascii mail store)
[11:19:12] <healthyao> upgrade in the network is needed: no support
[11:20:06] <healthyao> upgrade is needed in a recipient sytem, for display and for checke signatures: about 5 supporters
[11:20:36] <healthyao> upgrade is needed in a recipient sytem, for display and reply only: about 15 supporters
[11:20:55] <healthyao> upgrade si not useful: 1 supporters
[11:21:46] <randy> To clarify: difference between 2 and 3 is that 2 thinks that verifying signatures after upgrading is useful, while 3 says that it is hopeless -- once the message is downgraded, signatures will not verify and that's that
[11:24:38] <randy> John Klensin: signatures are important, but the way to make them work is to have utf8smtp work all the way through, not to try and downgrade and reupgrade
[11:29:54] <healthyao> repoll:
[11:30:50] <healthyao> upgrade is needed in a recipient sytem, for display and reply only: about 15 supporters upgrade is needed in a recipient sytem, for display and reply only: about 15 supporters upgrade is needed in a recipient sytem, for display and reply only: about 23 supporters
[11:31:12] <healthyao> sorry that should be: upgrade is needed in a recipient sytem, for display and reply only: about 23 supporters
[11:37:51] <healthyao> now imap issues
[11:38:18] <healthyao> consensus: next draft will be based on ENABLE
[11:39:02] <healthyao> now pop issues
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[11:43:13] <healthyao> now mailing list document
[11:44:23] <healthyao> harald: any issues someone want to raise?
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[11:51:50] <frank> ASCII Return-Path is fine
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