IETF
drip@jabber.ietf.org
Thursday, November 11, 2021< ^ >
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[14:20:10] <Britta Hale_web_594> Audio good
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[14:23:50] <Bob Moskowitz> yes!
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[14:25:38] <Éric Vyncke_web_327> If you are just killing time before the meeting start, feel free to add an avatar to meetecho with https://gravatar.com ;-)
[14:27:29] <Adam Wiethuechter_web_199> Sounds exciting - I will now be properly distracted
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[14:30:07] <Stuart Card_web_440> Somebody please say something aloud so I can verify audio in.
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[14:31:59] <Éric Vyncke_web_327> stu, do you take minutes ?
[14:32:18] <Adam Wiethuechter_web_199> I will help with minutes as well until my presentations at end
[14:32:30] <Éric Vyncke_web_327> Thank you both
[14:33:21] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_469> Indeed, we "hope"
[14:33:42] <Shuai Zhao_web_781> arch -18 is needed
[14:33:50] <Bob Moskowitz> In my not so humble opinion, the drafts in process are well along.  There is other work here we need to move on to, so let's wrap up arch, rid, and auth.
[14:33:55] <Éric Vyncke_web_327> EDIT state means "awaiting editing or being edited" see https://www.rfc-editor.org/about/queue/#state_def/
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[14:36:12] <Adam Wiethuechter_web_199> "Are you sure you wish to continue with the thing you said you wanted to do?"
[14:36:21] <Adam Wiethuechter_web_199> -_-
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[14:37:43] <Bob Moskowitz> The computer I use for meetecho is only meetecho and gather.  Even this jabbering is on a different computer.  fewer things to go wrong.
[14:40:13] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_469> Shuai, is referring to 3GPP: and as it may not be trivial to see how DRIP can be useful for other SDOs (e.g., 3GPP), we agreed to update the text related to 3GPP in Section 1.1 to indicate that:
* DRIP RID may be considered to be used as CAA-Level UAV ID (Network RID context in Release 17).
* The 3GPP is discussing a proposal to include Broadcast RID in “Study of Further Architecture Enhancement for UAV and UAM (FS_AEUA)” (Release 18)
[14:40:54] <Éric Vyncke_web_327> Should we then issue a liaison statement to 3GPP about this I-D ?
[14:41:20] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_469> We don't need so for the moment as this is purely informative
[14:41:46] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_469> we can consider a more formal LS when they start the broadcast work
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[14:43:49] <Adam Wiethuechter_web_199> It might be nice to forward the -arch in a liaison to point out the protentional use, but perhaps its best when they start the work
[14:44:22] <Sean Turner_web_301> Having received a bunch of for FYI liaisons over the years they basically get ignored.
[14:44:43] <Sean Turner_web_301> Yep
[14:44:58] <Sean Turner_web_301> impressive
[14:45:23] <Éric Vyncke_web_327> @sean thank you for the return of experience
[14:46:06] <Bob Moskowitz> Yes expanding on text we currently have about observers.
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[14:46:53] <Bob Moskowitz> The text for everything in the picture is in arch.  Or at least that is my opinion.
[14:47:50] <Robin Wilton_web_178> If commenters have said they think it's too complicated, how about building up to the full picture in stages?
[14:48:15] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_469> Agree it fits the arch. We just need to make sure in the narrative that some interfaces are not in drip scope (DAA/V2V), etc.
[14:48:27] <Adam Wiethuechter_web_199> Good point Med
[14:48:29] <Robin Wilton_web_178> (for instance, precede this diagram with one that shows just one UAS rather than two...)
[14:48:56] <Robin Wilton_web_178> @Sean ack - thanks
[14:49:26] <Éric Vyncke_web_327> @Rob indeed one UAS should probably be enough
[14:49:36] <Stephan Wenger_web_219> I will just note that ASCII drawings are NOT required anymore.  Using a SVG graphic will allow you to put information in more readable form.  For example, you could make "optional" features a different line type etc.
[14:49:50] <Éric Vyncke_web_327> @Rob except of course for the V2V link
[14:50:04] <Adam Wiethuechter_web_199> @Stephan....oooo I will use this new power bestowed upon me
[14:50:21] <Sean Turner_web_301> @StephanW hasn't search for this yet, but is there a good tool to make those?
[14:51:00] <Bob Moskowitz> I need to read through -17 and give a more complete review.  I will assume this is a new fig and my comments will reflect that.
[14:51:05] <Éric Vyncke_web_327> About SVG, it is rumoured that the XMLv3 SVG profile is not the most common...
[14:51:18] <Robin Wilton_web_178> @Eric Absolutely; so one might start with a single-UAS diagram, then add the second UAS and show that now, V2V is an architectural option.
[14:51:29] <Adam Wiethuechter_web_199> Eric - ruining my hopes and dreams
[14:51:57] <Bob Moskowitz> V2V MAY come in where RID is used to inform DAA.
[14:52:12] <Bob Moskowitz> This is discussed in ASTM DAA wg
[14:52:41] <Éric Vyncke_web_327> @Adam: you may try with a simple SVG one and read some discussion on the IETF / RFC editor webs
[14:52:42] <Bob Moskowitz> Thus V2V is not so out of scope for DRIP.
[14:52:57] <Stephan Wenger_web_219> You mean how to create SVG?  Visio can export SVG, and there are a ton of converters out that translate PDF into SVG.  I haven't used the mechanics the tools folks put into the IETF toolchain for including SVG, but allegedly it's straightforward.
[14:53:11] <Adam Wiethuechter_web_199> @Eric - I will go hunting later....you will realize my interest near the end of auth presentation :)
[14:53:24] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_469> The point Bob is that we don't specify these services.
[14:53:37] <Sean Turner_web_301> yeah one I asked the question I figured I could just pick an output format from whatever my fav drawing program is
[14:53:55] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_469> Of course RID can simplify or be relevraged but that just a side effect our the drip work, not a direct goal
[14:55:44] <Adam Wiethuechter_web_199> If/when we recharter DAA and V2V work might occur - but not in scope now
[14:55:47] <Bob Moskowitz> Only to point out that UA and A can recieve RID and act on it if they can trust it.  There is research on equiping Manned Aircraft to receive RID.  This could be important in airports and such.
[14:56:59] <Sean Turner_web_301> Andrei is doing a great job managing this slide deck :)
[15:01:01] <Britta Hale_web_594> Who would manage the blockchain? BFT only holds if the distributed computing parties do not collude past a certain point. How is it envisioned that that threshold is enforced / incentive structure for truly distributed computing?
[15:01:13] <Adam Wiethuechter_web_199> Wi-Fi NaN is being replaced by Wi-Fi BEACON mostly
[15:02:04] <Sean Turner_web_301> I just wanted to say thanks for those slides Andrei very clear in what you are proposing
[15:02:17] <Bob Moskowitz> WIFI NAN does not work well with a UA traversing an area.  BEACON works more
[15:06:00] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_469> Not depending on F3411 as normative is also a good change.
[15:06:06] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_469> I guess Bob meant pearg
[15:06:20] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_469> no response from saag
[15:07:46] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_469> It would be good @Adam to have more details on your implem ;-)
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[15:09:22] <Robin Wilton_web_471> Sorry, sudden audio fail :^(
[15:09:36] <Sean Turner_web_301> I mean with no opposition push the button! :)
[15:09:57] <Sean Turner_web_301> and more importantly no outstanding issues :)
[15:15:49] <Daniel Migault_web_995> @robin: thank for raising this anyway.
[15:20:30] <Bob Moskowitz> And the hash length in manifest is one of my questions to cfrg....
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[15:21:13] <Bob Moskowitz> and when the location message hash is included you authenticate where the UA is
[15:22:04] <Bob Moskowitz> That signing short messages is yet ANOTHER question for cfrg.
[15:23:02] <Daniel Migault_web_995> question to the list or the chat - mailing list is preferred ;-)
[15:23:13] <Sean Turner_web_301> @adam fast yet clear!
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[15:23:52] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_469> Agree with Adam this should be in arch
[15:23:55] <Bob Moskowitz> rid no longer has claims ect
[15:23:59] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_469> (claims etc.)
[15:24:06] <Bob Moskowitz> :)
[15:25:48] <Sean Turner_web_301> :)
[15:26:23] <Britta Hale_web_594> @Bob: another question you may want to solicit cfrg feedback on is the key confirmation approach being used here (just from my listening to the current presentation). Usually using the key as a MAC key etc. for confirmation leads to insecurity on the cryptographic side (a key separation issue - the same one that plagued TLS 1.2).
[15:27:41] <Mohamed Boucadair_web_469> This is a mising piece of teh drip work
[15:27:43] <Bob Moskowitz> @Britta.  Yes need to be careful here.
[15:28:02] <Sean Turner_web_301> 3min to spare!
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[15:28:15] <Sean Turner_web_301> :)
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[15:30:16] <Robin Wilton_web_471> lolz
[15:30:35] <Robin Wilton_web_471> The NATO command chain in Bosnia went through at least 3 countries.......
[15:30:54] <Bob Moskowitz> Adam and I will be cracking on registries.
[15:30:55] <Robin Wilton_web_471> E2E encryption is good...  ;^)
[15:30:56] <Jaime Jimenez_web_478> @Bob I had a look at draft-ietf-drip-rid-13. As a complete outsider it would help to see some table for section 3 with the fields involved (if possible).
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[15:31:09] <Robin Wilton_web_471> Thanks everyone - fascinating work.
[15:31:12] <Éric Vyncke_web_327> Enjoy the cookies ;-) Thank you
[15:31:14] <Bob Moskowitz> @jamie.  THanks
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[15:31:22] <Robin Wilton_web_471> Well done Adam!
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[15:31:28] <Adam Wiethuechter_web_199> Thanks everyone!
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[15:31:39] <Adam Wiethuechter_web_199> I now go do my cool downs from that run :")
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[15:32:04] <Bob Moskowitz> sorry for jumping in on you there Adam.  You did good
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