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[07:00:35] <Robert Moskowitz> 30 min to go.  On break.  Not in gather; too distracting.
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[07:22:29] <Robert Moskowitz> Well this time I got in first via Jabber than Meetecho.  Meetecho seems unable to link the IDs and chose a different ID for the jabber room.
[07:23:15] <Meetecho> Robert Moskowitz: that's normal. We notice the nickname is taken, and so choose a different one. That's classic conflict resolution in jabber MUC
[07:23:18] Shuai Zhao joins the room
[07:24:07] <Meetecho> We're not using your personal Jabber account to join the Meetecho room (we don't have acess to that). We create a temporary one, so the IDs will indeed be different.
[07:24:08] <Robert Moskowitz> It would be nice if a challenge can be presented on both interfaces that then allows them to be linked.
[07:24:16] <mglt> https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-109-drip
[07:24:23] Stuart Card joins the room
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[07:27:04] <Shuai Zhao> does the meetcho chat box is the same as jabber?
[07:27:14] <Meetecho> Shuai Zhao: yes
[07:27:17] Marcel Parodi joins the room
[07:27:18] <Stuart Card> Hi all! I'll be taking minutes, but as the chat is logged, I will _not_ attempt to transcribe it in real time into the minutes, merely note major topics raised in chat. Mostly I will try to capture what is said in the audio.
[07:27:22] Jonathan Hoyland joins the room
[07:27:25] Adam Wiethuechter joins the room
[07:27:25] Alexander Mayrhofer joins the room
[07:27:31] Joseph Salowey joins the room
[07:27:39] alex-meetecho joins the room
[07:27:43] <Shuai Zhao> is Meetcho is really person :)
[07:27:51] <Meetecho> I think I am :D
[07:27:55] mcr joins the room
[07:28:01] <Adam Wiethuechter> Oh no - it knows
[07:28:03] Richard Wilhelm joins the room
[07:28:05] <Meetecho> :)
[07:28:26] Daniam Henriques joins the room
[07:28:28] <Robert Moskowitz> Therefore I am, I think (Moody Blues, "Days of Future, Past".
[07:28:35] <mcr> All robots would be programmed to think they were real.
[07:28:41] <Shuai Zhao> better than Siri
[07:28:43] <Meetecho> Great band and amazing album, Robert!
[07:28:58] jhoyla joins the room
[07:28:59] <Stuart Card> We are all programmed to think we are real.
[07:29:12] <Robert Moskowitz> From my college days...
[07:29:17] <Adam Wiethuechter> okay way too deep lets back out of that
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[07:29:23] <Stuart Card> Is audio live yet?
[07:29:38] <Jonathan Hoyland> If you plunge your dagger into the heart of any corporation what pours out but people?
[07:29:38] Jim Reid joins the room
[07:29:48] <Shuai Zhao> Yes Adam
[07:29:48] <Stuart Card> Yes Adam
[07:29:48] <Meetecho> Stuart Card: No one has taken the mic yet, I think
[07:29:51] <Daniam Henriques> Yes we can
[07:30:07] <Adam Wiethuechter> Audio is live then Stu :D
[07:30:15] <Adam Wiethuechter> I have tested my ability to speak
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[07:31:10] <Jim Reid> I can't hear anything even after reconnecting the audio. Can anyone help?
[07:31:11] James Gould leaves the room
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[07:31:31] <Éric Vyncke> bottom right corner: the refresh ?
[07:31:37] <Robert Moskowitz> @Jonathan.  Cogs pour out and the corp grinds to a stop.  Now let's fly!
[07:31:37] Riccardo Nanni joins the room
[07:31:42] <Éric Vyncke> but nobody is speaking yet
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[07:31:57] <Meetecho> Yes, as Eric said no one is speaking, so that may be why you don't hear anything yet
[07:31:58] <Jim Reid> @Eric, yes I did that. Twice.
[07:31:58] James Gould joins the room
[07:32:03] <Adam Wiethuechter> Yeah daniel is muted I think?
[07:32:04] <Alexandre Petrescu> The presenter is speaking I believe, because slides advance.  But I dont hear.
[07:32:08] <Peter Koch> still nobody speaking?
[07:32:10] <Meetecho> Checking
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[07:32:14] <Shuai Zhao> is Daniel talking ?
[07:32:16] Michael Breuer joins the room
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[07:32:24] <Adam Wiethuechter> Daniel is not in mic queue
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[07:32:57] <Jim Reid> I hear you now Daniel
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[07:33:04] <mcr> He was explaining how to unmute.
[07:33:11] <Alexandre Petrescu> :-)
[07:33:11] <Adam Wiethuechter> Neglected to use his own advice lol
[07:33:14] <Éric Vyncke> ;-)
[07:33:31] <Robert Moskowitz> In Canadian English?
[07:34:39] <Robert Moskowitz> No.  But I can
[07:34:40] <Jonathan Hoyland> I can jabber scribe if you need.
[07:34:47] Zaid AlBanna joins the room
[07:34:51] <Robert Moskowitz> Yes Jonathan!
[07:35:02] Amelia Andersdotter joins the room
[07:35:10] <Robert Moskowitz> Better to have someone not a speaker for scribe.
[07:35:11] <Jonathan Hoyland> @Bob, on it.
[07:35:57] Jody Kolker leaves the room
[07:36:25] <mcr> Poor Daniel speaks Francais in Montreal, but nobody understands him, and speaks bad english to him.
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[07:36:52] <Éric Vyncke> LoL
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[07:40:48] <Éric Vyncke> I had also no time to read the ITU document ;-)
[07:40:52] <mcr> I personally won't review (for free) documents which won't be available under open-stand.org free-to-download use.  I don't know what ITU Study Group 20's rules are.
[07:41:08] <Adam Wiethuechter> I opened it - was like oh my this is very uhhh dense then closed it
[07:41:32] <Adam Wiethuechter> Very quiet!
[07:41:35] <Robert Moskowitz> I have started in on the ITU document.  It only has a small part touching on DRIP.  Thing is it is big in stepping into ICAO turf, and they are not referenced.
[07:41:41] <Jonathan Hoyland> I can't hear
[07:41:42] <Éric Vyncke> We (= WG) should really read it ;-)
[07:42:09] <mcr> needs to increase mic gain, or make sure he selected the mic that is part of his headphones.
[07:42:19] <mcr> Likely he is using his laptop mic by mistake.
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[07:42:42] <Meetecho> Jonathan Hoyland: from our stats, your audio-in stream seems u and running and sending data. Have you tried the reconnect audio button already? (circling arrows, bottom right corner)
[07:43:26] <Meetecho> Oh, unless you meant you couldn't hear the speaker well (apologies for the unneeded suggestion, in that case)
[07:43:30] <Jonathan Hoyland> @Meetecho I think it was just that Shuai had the wrong mic selected. The sound is all working now.
[07:43:45] <Meetecho> Ack
[07:43:52] <Padma Pillay-Esnault> may be just me but the sound is very choppy
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[07:44:07] <Robert Moskowitz> He is clear for me.
[07:44:19] <Adam Wiethuechter> He sounds good to me - I think its just his natural speaking cadence if anything
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[07:45:49] <Padma Pillay-Esnault> I have intermittent choppy sound ..
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[07:46:37] <Adam Wiethuechter> @Meetecho - any tips for Padma?
[07:47:22] <Meetecho> I just checked and apparently all of Padma's streams are now down
[07:47:36] <Meetecho> (may be a glitch in the monitor though)
[07:47:46] <Robert Moskowitz> Padma, where are you connecting from?
[07:47:51] <Meetecho> When he notified about spotty audio before I checked, and the stats didn't report any indication of packet loss
[07:48:18] <Alexandre Petrescu> (for my part, whhen I have hcoppy sound I check: my bluetooth headset because bluetooth audio sometimes chops if on stereo; then I check my VPN  to my organisation - ideally it should be down)
[07:48:33] <Meetecho> Yes, bluetooth headsets can be problematic with WebRTC
[07:49:47] <Meetecho> Padma, is the issue only with audio or other streams too?
[07:50:11] <Padma Pillay-Esnault> connected Headset. It is the audio only
[07:50:25] <Padma Pillay-Esnault> seems to be working for now
[07:50:59] <Meetecho> Ack, in case it becomes too inaudible, you can try the "reconnect audio" button to see if it helps (circling arrows in the bottom right corner)
[07:51:43] <Robert Moskowitz> After IETF, I will go through all the other sections of the arch draft.  So far I only got sec 1 reviewed.
[07:52:00] <Padma Pillay-Esnault> Ack thanks.
[07:52:04] <Mohamed Boucadair> Thanks, Bob. Please use the list to share your comments
[07:52:30] <Robert Moskowitz> I have (sec 1 comments) and I will.
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[07:58:47] <Robert Moskowitz> Note that for WiFi NAN, you need Android 8.
[07:59:25] Alissa Cooper joins the room
[07:59:42] <Robert Moskowitz> Plus hardware support in chip for NAN.
[08:01:35] <Alexandre Petrescu> (NAN== Neighborhood Aware Networking, I think)
[08:01:41] <Adam Wiethuechter> Yes Alex
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[08:02:36] <Mohit Sethi> Perhaps it might be worth experimenting with bluetooth 5 long/extended range: https://blog.nordicsemi.com/getconnected/tested-by-nordic-bluetooth-long-range
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[08:02:53] <Robert Moskowitz> Note that 50M at 60Mile/hour = 2 sec!  Little warning.
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[08:03:17] <Adam Wiethuechter> The thing with BT5 LR is that you need hardware support on both ends - which can be problematic
[08:03:17] <Alexandre Petrescu> I relayed the opendroneid URL in my lab.
[08:03:19] <Éric Vyncke> Nice to see this implementation work
[08:03:19] <Robert Moskowitz> thank you Andrei!
[08:03:25] <Adam Wiethuechter> Sure!
[08:03:36] Alexa Morris leaves the room
[08:04:46] <Robert Moskowitz> Note that ICAO TFSG has not done 'much' since the rush for the Sept meeting.
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[08:07:51] <Alexandre Petrescu> USA FAA regulation, ok.  In France there is also legislation from year 2019 about "electronic devices  and lights in flight objects that dont carry persons".
[08:07:54] Alissa Cooper leaves the room
[08:08:52] <Shuai Zhao> does anyone know if AJCA or GAUTAM is interested in IETF DRIP?
[08:09:46] Alissa Cooper joins the room
[08:09:46] <Robert Moskowitz> ICAO does not distinguish between passengers on board or not.  It is pilot on board or not.
[08:10:07] <Susan Hares> excellent presentation
[08:10:15] <Alexandre Petrescu> We call them "persons", be them pilots or passengers.
[08:12:30] <Robert Moskowitz> Passengers have no input to the operation, pilot does.  Thus the focus on pilots.  A UAM has passengers, but no pilot.  Cargo planes typically no passengers but pilots...
[08:13:47] <Stuart Card> I think Carsten or Henk said on-list that some others in IETF are considering claims to be predicates.
[08:14:37] <Jonathan Hoyland> When I claim something am I declaring that I can prove it?
[08:15:16] <Robert Moskowitz> You claim without proof.  That takes an attestation.
[08:15:35] <Éric Vyncke> Bob +1
[08:16:00] <Alexandre Petrescu> "Clqim zithout proof" - self declaring attestations are common here.
[08:16:02] <Jonathan Hoyland> I can claim something is unique, but I can't prove it.
[08:16:13] <Jonathan Hoyland> It's not possible to prove something is unique.
[08:16:17] <Alexandre Petrescu> Declaration under honor?
[08:16:21] <Robert Moskowitz> Exactly, Jonathan
[08:16:36] <Jonathan Hoyland> So can I make a claim "x is unique"?
[08:16:38] <Robert Moskowitz> there is no honor amongst spoofers.
[08:16:53] <Jonathan Hoyland> Under the definitions in this draft.
[08:16:55] <Robert Moskowitz> Claim all you want.  Why should I believe you.
[08:17:01] <Alexandre Petrescu> Spoofers cant make declarations under honor
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[08:17:34] <Alexandre Petrescu> "Claim all you want. Why should I believe you." - because there is no immediately available and scalable way of doing it.
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[08:17:57] <Sean Turner> Pirates be here!
[08:18:08] <Jonathan Hoyland> The question is specifically about what is covered under this draft. One of the claims Adam listed was "x is unique". If you agree that such a claim is meaningless, why define it?
[08:18:13] <Robert Moskowitz> I believe I have created the smallest over-the-wire format for doing all this.
[08:18:42] <Robert Moskowitz> And Adam has implemented it in his draft(s).
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[08:20:55] <mcr> Attestation.
[08:21:08] <Robert Moskowitz> I am holding the whole thing is a Attestation.  I see mcr agrees.
[08:21:29] <mcr> A certificate is usually a third party statement, and as I understood, the aircraft created this about itself.
[08:21:47] <Éric Vyncke> sounds logical that it is an attestation
[08:21:54] <Jonathan Hoyland> The top part is created by the registry, no?
[08:22:02] <mcr> An attestation could contain a certificate.
[08:22:12] <Shuai Zhao> so CA is an authenticated attestation.
[08:22:13] <Jonathan Hoyland> It seems more like a certificate pack to me.
[08:22:13] <Robert Moskowitz> Yes, Jonathan
[08:22:17] <Alexandre Petrescu> Some times Attestations can be made by third parties, some times they are made  by individuals.  This seems to be a mixture (the packet format shows both Registry and Plane sources).
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[08:22:49] <mcr> That certificate could be retrieved from another source without breaking any of the security, I think.
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[08:23:33] <mcr> that xkcd is from this week.
[08:23:34] <Alexandre Petrescu> IS there a form of self-generated Attestation that could still be trusted?
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[08:23:56] <mcr> Alex, that's a deep RATS question, let's not go there here :-)
[08:24:35] <Robert Moskowitz> RAT Hole!  Where is Klensin and his rat...
[08:24:54] <Alexandre Petrescu> ok ok...
[08:25:39] <Éric Vyncke> 5 minutes to go...
[08:25:59] <Sean Turner> Thanks I think that question helped me a lot actually
[08:26:17] <Jonathan Hoyland> Loud and clear Bob
[08:26:45] <Adam Wiethuechter> Sorry about running us short on time
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[08:31:18] <Éric Vyncke> Need to leave now, sorry but we need to prepare the plenary, see you there ;-)
[08:31:57] <Alexandre Petrescu> I have feedback about droneid but I wiill go the email list.
[08:32:00] <Stuart Card> The list has lots of time for questions!
[08:32:06] <Alexandre Petrescu> (about opendroneid)
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[08:32:53] <Robert Moskowitz> thanks all for coming by.
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