- Thursday, July 30, 2020

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[13:50:21] <Bob Moskowitz> hi
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[14:00:53] <Andrei Gurtov> Hello, Bob!
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[14:01:49] <Bob Moskowitz> thanks for joining in, Andrei
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[14:04:40] <Alexandre Petrescu> I hear ok
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[14:05:36] <Alexandre Petrescu> your audio is like too highly amplified, the top of the sinusoid is clipped
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[14:08:14] <Bob Moskowitz> Actual office background talk!
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[14:14:18] <Shuai Zhao> i could not see the screen
[14:14:23] <Carsten Bormann> 0 kbit/s
[14:14:24] <Marc Blanchet> can't see the screen
[14:14:33] <Shuai Zhao> much better
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[14:26:28] <Jonathan Hoyland> I think defining the ends is fine?
[14:26:57] <Alexandre Petrescu> "I think defining the ends is fine?" - in unicast yes, but in broadcast who is the 2nd end?
[14:27:11] <Jonathan Hoyland> It's the same as in MLS
[14:27:19] <Jonathan Hoyland> You can define end-to-ends
[14:27:33] <Alexandre Petrescu> end-to-ends is then multicast
[14:27:38] <Jonathan Hoyland> Or ends-to-end
[14:27:54] <Alexandre Petrescu> not sure we have an IP paradigm for ends-to-end.
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[14:29:39] <Jonathan Hoyland> Can't hear?
[14:29:41] <Adam Wiethuechter> no audio
[14:29:54] <Shuai Zhao> why do see Two Alex in the video?
[14:30:00] <Jonathan Hoyland> And the video is weirdly wrapped.
[14:30:02] <cabo> Split personality, too
[14:30:18] <Alexandre Petrescu> split persnality, huh ?
[14:30:19] <Bob Moskowitz> this is best handled on the list.  I will have to put together my list of reasons for dropping it, not just what are the ends in broadcast
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[14:31:27] <Jonathan Hoyland> Is the NOT in 2 correct?
[14:31:28] <Alexandre Petrescu> I refreshed, maybe it works now
[14:31:37] <Jonathan Hoyland> We do!
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[14:31:42] <Adam Wiethuechter> I agree, this should be moved to the list. I agree with Jonathan that we can define E2E
[14:31:42] <Cullen Jennings> Some other places we end up admitting what the ends are is nearly impossible to fully define but in some common cases X,Y, Z are considered ends.
[14:32:27] <Jonathan Hoyland> "encryption in NOT allowed" the not is not IETF normative?
[14:32:29] <Cullen Jennings> That might be a path that allowed one to get the job done without fully exploring the infinite stack of turtles that might be the end.
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[14:32:45] <cabo> (Justifiable parties)
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[14:32:49] <Bob Moskowitz> I have a draft for Network RID security which is separate for the issues around broadcast
[14:33:49] <Jonathan Hoyland> There's nothing possible at the IP layer
[14:33:50] <Bob Moskowitz> The "encryption not allowed" is only for broadcast.  Network is encrypted in everyones view.
[14:34:03] <Jonathan Hoyland> But at the application layer it can be.
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[14:34:32] <Jonathan Hoyland> When it comes to broadcast, is there someone who shouldn't be able to read the data?
[14:35:03] <Bob Moskowitz> Yes.
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[14:35:31] <Jonathan Hoyland> How are the sets of people who may and may not read the data defined?
[14:35:36] <Bob Moskowitz> General public should not be able to find the pilot to beat him up.  They should contact authorities that can do that.
[14:36:00] <Jonathan Hoyland> Assuming we trust the government ;p.
[14:36:06] <Adam Wiethuechter> By regulation Jonathan
[14:36:07] <Alexandre Petrescu> (if the broadcast is below IP, then there is no 'end-to-end' concept, and no need of such a concept)
[14:36:21] <Bob Moskowitz> We are in their airspace.  We play by their rules.
[14:36:28] <Éric Vyncke> BTW, hum is just indicative and not working to fine with Meetecho
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[14:36:39] <Alexandre Petrescu> Is the airspace rule requiring 'end-to-end'?
[14:36:40] <Jonathan Hoyland> end-to-end is not related to IP or any particular transport.
[14:37:00] <Alexandre Petrescu> Do you know the paper 'End 2 End considerations in system design'?
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[14:37:50] <Jonathan Hoyland> No, do you have a link?
[14:38:03] <Alexandre Petrescu> no, I just have the title, sorry for asking you too directly.
[14:38:24] <Jonathan Hoyland> Trying to find it on Google scholar, but struggling
[14:38:33] <Alexandre Petrescu> letme see...
[14:38:54] <Jonathan Hoyland> Ah, got it.
[14:38:57] <Alexandre Petrescu> https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiI8P2ImvXqAhXQDmMBHY2-CMYQFjACegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdl.acm.org%2Fdoi%2F10.1145%2F357401.357402&usg=AOvVaw3xJObeeQWyfErjH2ANmcgm
[14:39:17] <Adam Wiethuechter> Could this also be sent over on the list? It might be a nice read for everyone :)
[14:39:17] <Alexandre Petrescu> sorry
[14:39:18] <Alexandre Petrescu> https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/357401.357402
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[14:40:46] <Alexandre Petrescu> Adam, the mailing list tm-rid@ietf.org?
[14:40:52] <Adam Wiethuechter> yes
[14:41:06] <Alexandre Petrescu> there is a small issue in that.
[14:41:21] <Alexandre Petrescu> the small issue is that the list is called tm-rid but the WG drip.
[14:41:34] <Jonathan Hoyland> Yeah, that is weird.
[14:41:48] <Adam Wiethuechter> Yes I am aware, Eric was there a drip list made that was an alias?
[14:41:55] <Adam Wiethuechter> I can't remember
[14:41:57] <Alexandre Petrescu> That could be thought of about improving.
[14:42:34] <Éric Vyncke> Not really, there are constraints in the tools infrastructure of the mailing list. Names cannot be changed
[14:42:57] <Éric Vyncke> A couple of WG have a different name for the email list than the WG name itself
[14:43:02] <Adam Wiethuechter> Ahh okay, thanks for clarification
[14:43:09] <Alexandre Petrescu> ("Names cannot be changed" - excuse me, I disagree.  The small issue exists since so long... but still is it an issue).
[14:43:10] <Shuai Zhao> some the Amelia's comment for -arch may be addressed in the requirement
[14:43:23] <Éric Vyncke> And indeed, AFAIK, there is an alias drip@ietf.org -> tm-rid@ietf.org
[14:44:08] <Jonathan Hoyland> @Alexandre there are so many people who still call TLS SSL. Sometimes names are very hard to change :(
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[14:44:35] <Adam Wiethuechter> I need to update my contact list then, I was unaware Eric :)
[14:44:37] <cabo> That is the right definition.
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[14:45:04] <Amelia Andersdotter> just for the record, i didn't mean "speculate" to sound like there was guesswork on other SDOs, but more as an observation that IETF may not need to describe what other SDOs are doing at all (necessarily). when i've been following 3GPP discussions on UAV identifiers they look like they could still go in some different directions, for instance.
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[14:45:44] <Amelia Andersdotter> i intended to make it sound a bit snobby, but it was a literary choice (unfortunately). could probably have been worded.
[14:45:54] <Amelia Andersdotter> +better
[14:45:56] <Adam Wiethuechter> To write in our document what another SDO in motion is doing seems like making more busy work for us to change text later
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[14:46:42] <Scott Hollenbeck> RDAP has no restrictions on the type of information that can be returned. It's just JSON structured data.
[14:46:52] <Adam Wiethuechter> So I agree with you Amelia
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[14:48:01] <Alexandre Petrescu> the term 'Operator', if not preceded by 'human', makes think of Verizon or so.
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[14:48:16] <Jonathan Hoyland> This sounds like you need PUFs.
[14:48:46] <Adam Wiethuechter> @Alex, the definition of Operator is an open question I believe still
[14:49:05] <Marc Blanchet> while RDAP was defined for domains and IP addresses, in fact, it is just a container of JSON parameters with a REST API. I can't see why it could not be used for drip.
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[14:50:01] <Alexandre Petrescu> "@Alex, the definition of Operator is an open question I believe still" - if we dont know what is an operator then even less we can imagine a 'malicious operator' in the slide
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[14:50:34] <Bob Moskowitz> Operator is the owner of the UAS.
[14:50:36] <Jonathan Hoyland> Maybe not, just wanted to raise the idea.
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[14:51:20] <Adam Wiethuechter> Also Alex thanks for posting that link to the list :)
[14:51:32] <Cullen Jennings> Not that is matters, but AFAIC things that can run the normal flight controller can easily generate private keys
[14:51:33] <cabo> We are now deeply in attestation land (RATS).
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[14:51:42] <Bob Moskowitz> Pilot is the one with the ground control station.
[14:51:48] <cabo> Cullen Jennings: I would think so, too.
[14:51:50] <Jonathan Hoyland> Nope
[14:51:58] <Marc Blanchet> so using the same private key for multiple drones. does not look good to me, unless I misunderstood.
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[14:52:10] <Alexandre Petrescu> Pilot is on the ground too?
[14:52:24] <Adam Wiethuechter> Yes cabo, I think RATS things might end up being part of solutions
[14:52:25] <Cullen Jennings> @Jonathan - what CPU are think of on cheap drones that could not do this ?
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[14:52:38] <Jonathan Hoyland> TPM's seem much heavier than necessary.
[14:52:52] <Alexandre Petrescu> TPM... in cars there are HSMs - High Security Modules.
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[14:53:48] <Jonathan Hoyland> @Cullen, I think the CPU comment came from Stu.
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[14:54:12] <Cullen Jennings> oh - thanks
[14:54:16] <Marc Blanchet> generating a key is a one-time thing. if it takes too long, it could be done at boot and continue to compute in the background until the key is generated.
[14:54:43] <mcr> I'm double-booked, but i see slides.  WebFinger has been under-loved.  I did find a way to do WebFinger with only Apache Rewrite + static files.  no CGI or other "moving" parts. I wish it was even more static-web-server friendly though.
[14:55:15] <Jonathan Hoyland> That's why a PUF is the right tool in this case.
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[14:55:23] <Bob Moskowitz> The little UA can be part of the big UA cargo.  No solveable.
[14:55:30] <Alexandre Petrescu> PUF?
[14:55:45] <cabo> Provably unclonable function
[14:55:46] <Jonathan Hoyland> Physically Uncloneable Function
[14:55:56] <Jonathan Hoyland> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_unclonable_function
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[14:56:00] <cabo> Oops
[14:56:03] <mcr> "provably"... sometimes. often there are not as many prooves...
[14:56:09] <Marc Blanchet> what about generating keys on a computer of the controller and then upload them to the drone
[14:56:22] <Jonathan Hoyland> Yeah, the literature is totally inconsistent
[14:56:32] <Dan Harkins> if you can do a D-H you can generate a keypair.
[14:56:36] <mcr> Some hints that the biases are redily apparent when you look at 100K devices for PUFs.
[14:56:43] <Dan Harkins> Pub = priv * G
[14:56:46] <Bob Moskowitz> I think PK generation can work on small UAs; just a matter of time.
[14:56:55] <Alexandre Petrescu> How about distributing certificates
[14:57:06] <Dan Harkins> Perhaps assumption of large RSA keys
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[14:57:38] <Bob Moskowitz> We are working with EdDSA25519
[14:57:41] <Jonathan Hoyland> Even if key generation is done on the drone doesn't mean that it can't be extracted.
[14:57:44] <mcr> drone systems are a good example where the cheetos certificate deployment mechanism (discussed in secdispatch-idevid) might be appropriate :-)
[14:57:55] <mcr> er, drone systems sold at Walmart.
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[14:58:07] <Dan Harkins> well then with 25519 it's very easy to generate a keypair
[14:58:17] <Bob Moskowitz> You have walmart up their in the frozen north?
[14:58:35] <Jonathan Hoyland> It might be true in as much as they don't have access to a good source of randomness.
[14:58:43] <mcr> of course, where else would we get our igloo building supplies?
[14:58:44] <Bob Moskowitz> 10s+ on 8 bit processors
[14:59:08] <mcr> so, don't generate the keypair on the drone, generate it in the factory, and load it with the firmware.
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[14:59:21] <Alexandre Petrescu> that
[14:59:25] <Bob Moskowitz> The radio can offer a reasonable seed.
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[14:59:27] <Jonathan Hoyland> @mcr you can still steal the key
[14:59:28] <Dan Harkins> lack of a good source of randomness would impact any crypto protocol you would want to use your public key with
[14:59:45] <Dan Harkins> radios have lots of noise
[15:00:06] <mcr> generate crappy key in the device, get a certificate vs generate better key in assembly line, risk attack on factory.
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[15:00:11] <Jonathan Hoyland> A PUF is a way of putting a key in a drone that can't be used in multiple places.
[15:00:44] <Bob Moskowitz> Jonathan, I will look into PUF for UAS-RID generation.
[15:00:46] <mcr> third method, co-generate keypair in factory and device based upon PUF (or other silicon shared secret).
[15:00:53] <Cullen Jennings> IMUs in drones seem to produce mostly random bits ;-)
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[15:01:00] <Dan Harkins> 4th method, give every device the same key
[15:01:03] <Alexandre Petrescu> 4th method use Let's Encrypt, it's free
[15:01:29] <Bob Moskowitz> Is Let's Encrypt EdDSA?
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[15:01:42] <Alexandre Petrescu> I dont know I will check at home EdDSA
[15:01:51] <mcr> Alex, where you get the certificate (LE or other), is totally orthogonal to how you generate the keypair, and get a certificate for it.
[15:02:00] <Jonathan Hoyland> Even if you can extract some challenge response pairs from a PUF, storing a big enough table that you would reliably pass challenges would be prohibitively expenisive.
[15:02:02] <mcr> LE does not support EdDSA today.
[15:02:03] <Dan Harkins> Let's Encrypt validates websites, not drone ownership. I'm pretty sure Let's Encrypt would void any drone cert you erroneously got issued.
[15:02:06] <Dan Harkins> Or they should!
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[15:02:26] <Alexandre Petrescu> isnt there a webserver in that drone?
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[15:02:41] <mcr> if the drone can demonstrate that is controls a DNS name, then it can use dns-01 challenge just fine.  This can be done in the factory easily.
[15:02:54] <Dan Harkins> yea, a web server...but it can't generate a keypair :-P
[15:03:42] <mcr> actually, Dan, that's seriously possible.  I think that even the C-64 web server could generate a keypair.  Certainly it had a nice pink noise generator.
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[15:04:59] <Alexandre Petrescu> a secret key, is first a secret.  A secret could be developped in many different ways.
[15:05:21] <Alexandre Petrescu> Some times one could develop a key unconciously, and use it only once.
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[15:06:09] <Cullen Jennings> You can look at how FRS/GMRS radios have played out to realize some of the limits of regulation. Still worth doing even if regulation does not solve all the problems.
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[15:06:43] <Adam Wiethuechter> Keep in mind everyone that the keys we are talking about on the UA (at least in the US per FAA from the NPRM) is to be one time use per flight operation
[15:07:16] <Adam Wiethuechter> That private key will be in use for perhaps a day at most before it is presumably destroyed
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[15:07:48] <Alexandre Petrescu> The video 'signature' of the photo of a drone is also a key.
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[15:08:28] <Alexandre Petrescu> Have a huge database of 'signatures' of drones and compare the one in sight.
[15:08:38] <Adam Wiethuechter> I will say it here; I think anything in terms of Attestation (via RATS) and protection of keypair secrets are part of narrowly focused solutions
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[15:10:09] <Adam Wiethuechter> What has been discussed in the past 10 minutes is super good and should be noted down and/or continued on the list cause I think it is something we need to at least get our heads around
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[15:13:04] <Alexandre Petrescu> ah
[15:13:04] <Adam Wiethuechter> audio lost
[15:13:12] <Marc Blanchet> lost audio
[15:13:12] <Cullen Jennings> lost for me too
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[15:13:22] <Daniel Migault> yea. me toot
[15:13:26] <Alexandre Petrescu> the slide is interesting
[15:13:37] <Stephan Wenger> yesa
[15:13:40] <Bob Moskowitz> What is happening in Florida?
[15:13:41] <Dan Harkins> yes we can hear you Daniel
[15:13:47] <Adam Wiethuechter> i can hear you daniel
[15:13:58] <Adam Wiethuechter> Florida is being Florida again
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[15:15:15] <Andrei Gurtov> There was some discussion on ADS-B use on the list; you are welcome to try our attack simulator at http://zebroid.ida.liu.se/; it is being tested with real ATC. We also have 3 papers on DASC and iCNS coming on aviation cybersecurity - ADS-B, CPDLC, 5G
[15:15:24] <Marc Blanchet> can't see screen.
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[15:15:34] <Adam Wiethuechter> He is selecting the right one
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[15:15:44] <Dan Harkins> don't show us the tabs in your browser Bob!
[15:15:44] <Adam Wiethuechter> He is "pro" multi-tasker?
[15:15:47] <Marc Blanchet> seeing
[15:15:52] <Amelia Andersdotter> seeing
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[15:18:21] <Dan Harkins> identity-based crypto?
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[15:19:01] <Alexandre Petrescu> the only possible way to test and prove ownership and identity, IMHO..., is to ... ping on IP :-)
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[15:25:01] <Alexandre Petrescu> Is it this the draft? draft-moskowitz-drip-uas-rid
[15:25:03] <Scott Hollenbeck> RDAP has a service discovery mechanism for hierarchical identifiers. It's described in RFC 7484
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[15:25:33] <Adam Wiethuechter> Yes Alex
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[15:26:06] <Marc Blanchet> yeap Scott ;-).  And the service discovery can be done offline
[15:26:35] <Adam Wiethuechter> I am bookmarking 7484 right now to deep dive after this
[15:26:38] <Stuart Card> I like ID based crypto, but only with Distributed Key Generation to avoid the requirement for unconditional trust of the key issuer.
[15:26:52] <mcr> Threshold Cryptography from PHB?
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[15:27:33] <Adam Wiethuechter> PHB?
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[15:28:05] <Peter Yee> Pointy Haired Boss
[15:28:16] <Adam Wiethuechter> I had a feeling....
[15:28:18] <Peter Yee> No, really, Phill Hallam-Baker.
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[15:28:34] <Adam Wiethuechter> I have been bamboozled
[15:29:29] <mcr> PHB even looks a bit like PHB.  Complete opposite in the spectrum of clue though :-)
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[15:29:33] <Alexandre Petrescu> in the draft, it says at some point "  The HHIT UAS RID in the ASTM Basic Message (the actual Remote ID message) "
[15:29:43] <Alexandre Petrescu> Is the ASTM Basic Message an IP message?
[15:29:46] <Adam Wiethuechter> No
[15:30:01] <Adam Wiethuechter> A Broadcast message sent over Bluetooth Beacon frames
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[15:30:21] <Alexandre Petrescu> But there is an IPv6-over-Bluetooth doc at IETF.
[15:30:46] <Alexandre Petrescu> And Bluetooth is too short range for drones?
[15:31:01] <Adam Wiethuechter> BT5, with extended payloads of LE Coded
[15:31:18] <Alexandre Petrescu> BT5 is longer range thanbluetooth?
[15:31:26] <Adam Wiethuechter> Bluetooth 5
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[15:31:43] <Alexandre Petrescu> Bluetooth 5 is longer range than the 10m of Blueooth normal non-5?
[15:31:52] <Adam Wiethuechter> Yes, I have some data in my first few slides on this and will try with time to go into detail'
[15:32:12] <Alexandre Petrescu> I would be very much surprised...
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[15:32:39] <Adam Wiethuechter> I was too, but it does reach father than Bluetooth 4, by a good distance
[15:32:59] <Alexandre Petrescu> I mean, I agree that drones above heads have a better radio coverage whenmeasured, but bylegistlation, I think that Bluetooth be it 4 or 5, is not allowed above a certain 'dBm' threshold level.
[15:33:05] <Stuart Card> Clarification: ASTM F3411-19 says BT4 required, BT5 options, but our flight testing shows BT4 reliable range is too short to be useful, whereas BT5 Long Range is adequate.
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[15:33:34] <Marc Blanchet> if one wants to play with RDAP, you can get the mobile app named RDAP Browser (ios,android) which queries to current RDAP infrastructure (DNS domains, IP addresses and AS numbers)
[15:33:35] <Alexandre Petrescu> (I will avoid discussing in contradictory :-)
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[15:33:51] <Stuart Card> "optional" not "options"
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[15:34:23] <Shuai Zhao> @michael, you are indeed a lawyer.
[15:34:25] <Alexandre Petrescu> (but for me Bluetooth is somehow forbidden if outdoors...)  I am not sure what the FCC says in USA about the power levels of the Bluetooth in that particular 2.4Ghz range.
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[15:34:53] <Adam Wiethuechter> +8 dBm is max power level of Bluetooth
[15:35:01] <Bob Moskowitz> EASA is also specifying BT4 & 5 for this use.
[15:35:02] <Alexandre Petrescu> +8dBm is very small.
[15:35:21] <Adam Wiethuechter> Special dispenstation can be handed out for more, but its rare and by FCC directly
[15:35:24] <Marc Blanchet> lost audio again
[15:35:29] <Amelia Andersdotter> i lost audio now
[15:35:31] <Adam Wiethuechter> we lsot audio again
[15:35:32] <Alexandre Petrescu> I wonder whether EASA knows what is it doing (?) (sorry, not intending to say antyghin against anyone)
[15:35:41] <Bob Moskowitz> Adam's slides will give you some ranging numbers
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[15:36:58] <Marc Blanchet> RDAP is modern: http rest, json, ... I can't think of going back into webfinger...
[15:37:09] <Meetecho> When you lose the audio stream (and you know the speaker is fine, so it's just you) you can use the "reconnect audio" button (circling arrows in the lower/right corner)
[15:37:24] <Meetecho> Sounds like it's the speaker experiencing some issues though, if I'm not mistaken?
[15:37:40] <Bob Moskowitz> The UAS currently sold use BT.  FCC etal has not stopped this.  FAA/EASA, etc. are leveraging this.  Plus Observer systems (smartphones) can get the messages.
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[15:38:33] <Stephan Wenger> @Bob: expensive ones, perhaps.  The cheap stuff also?  I would think no...
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[15:38:54] <Alexandre Petrescu> Does EASA/FCC understand that Bluetooth is on an unlicensed spectrum and as such is restricted to max. 10meter. It's in the user manual.  Or maybe drones are restricted to 10m above ground only, or so...
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[15:40:30] <Adam Wiethuechter> This is news to me and I will see what I can find on this
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[15:40:55] <Stephan Wenger> BT class 1 is good for 100 meters, and in practice works just fine at longer distances
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[15:41:05] <Marc Blanchet> there are advantages of lying around req/arch docs while working on solutions, since sometimes, you end up with a solution that does not fit the requirements/arch. Done that in another wg.
[15:41:40] <Alexandre Petrescu> BT class 1 is on what frequency?  (I do agree in practice it could be heard far away)
[15:41:42] <Stuart Card> Plus, in this case, -arch is really a solution space document.
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[15:43:35] <Cullen Jennings> The audio is not great
[15:43:36] <Stephan Wenger> BT class 1 is on the usual 2.4 GHz unregulated
[15:43:53] <Eric Vyncke> Indeed, aiudio is pretty low volume
[15:44:07] <Stephan Wenger> BT class 1: 100mw transmit
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[15:44:31] <mcr> AGL => Above Ground Level. I was just told in PM.
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[15:44:57] <Alexandre Petrescu> "100mw transmit" it's very low, right?
[15:45:40] <Stephan Wenger> it's a lot more than the 1 mw your typical wireless bud is using :-)
[15:45:58] <mcr> so ten pages, with FEC.  Is 224 the pre-FEC or post-FEC size?
[15:46:03] <Alexandre Petrescu> It's  much less that the cars I work with do (2Watt) for 2km distances.
[15:46:24] <mcr> 1/r^2 ?
[15:46:32] <Stuart Card> 224 is inclusive of whatever FEC we do.
[15:46:34] <mcr> power goes as 1/r^3, I think.
[15:46:44] <Stephan Wenger> yeah, but remember, drones are (or should be) line of sight, with minimal interference
[15:47:14] <Stuart Card> BT4 has only error _detection_, drops errored frames, so we can use an erasure code (Reed-Solomon) to recover 1 lost frame.
[15:47:43] <mcr> Stuart, are you using markdown for your draft?  markdown is way friendlier to spellcheckers/grammar-checkers.
[15:47:55] <Alexandre Petrescu> 'minimal' interference as long as I am along with one drone in a restricted area field.  YEs. minimal.  But I want 'fligthooning' which is a form of platooning but with flying taxis.  They would be more numerous, and thus many times individual 100mwatts.
[15:48:02] <Stuart Card> BT5 has optional error _correction_, plus ASTM packs all their messages into a single larger BT5 frame, so our erasure coding would be useless.
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[15:48:38] <Stuart Card> I had been writing raw XML but could try markdown with my next draft.
[15:48:43] <mcr> (I can spell properly only en Francais. Turns out I never formarily learnt to read/write in English...)
[15:48:50] <Stephan Wenger> "minimal", compared to an automotive environment
[15:48:52] <Alexandre Petrescu> :-) mcr
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[15:49:34] <mcr> Lifting xml to markdown is a matter of 20 minutes on Mac/Linux.  Longer if you have windows because... stupids.
[15:50:19] <Alexandre Petrescu> timestamp like in DCF-77 I would try.
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[15:51:08] <Alexandre Petrescu> Ilike the presentation.
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[15:52:00] <mcr> Hmm. I thought you'd feed the packets into a FEC, and then you'd get 8 pages of stuff.  But that presents as if it's just a parity block.
[15:52:30] <Alexandre Petrescu> (for my clarification, is this Bluetooth different than the Bluetooth LE?)
[15:52:57] <Alexandre Petrescu> (because there is an RFC 7668 "IPv6 over Bluetooth LE"
[15:53:11] <Alexandre Petrescu> ("LE" - Low Energy).
[15:54:28] <Stuart Card> Yes, this is without IP, as we are extending the ASTM standard (which packs app layer messages directly into link layer frames for Broadcast). We use IP of course for everything but Broadcast RID.
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[15:55:04] <Bob Moskowitz> We are limited to the BT broadcast frames.  Different than 7668
[15:55:08] <Stuart Card> Thanks Daniel for chairing session!
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[15:55:24] <Adam Wiethuechter> I am sorry to everyone for going very fast through that!
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[15:55:33] <Stuart Card> Thanks all for participation. Go to the list!
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[15:55:38] <Eric Vyncke> Thank to the chairs, minute takers and presenters
[15:55:39] <Alexandre Petrescu> Thank you for the presentation.
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[15:55:45] <Alexandre Petrescu> Thanks for the discussion and participants.
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[15:56:15] <mcr> @Adam, I'm happy to help you lift that into markdown.
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