IETF
dprive@jabber.ietf.org
Friday, March 29, 2019< ^ >
Brian Haberman has set the subject to: DPRIVE Interim
Room Configuration
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GMT+0
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[09:45:22] Brian Haberman has set the subject to: DPRIVE - IETF 104
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[09:55:20] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Alex Mayrhofer presenting on Phase 2 requirements - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/slides-104-dprive-phase-2-requirements-00
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[09:59:10] <weiler> https://github.com/DPRIVE/dprive-v2-ms-and-reqs/blob/master/dprive-v2-ms-and-reqs.md
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[10:01:12] Antoine BERNARD joins the room
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[10:03:48] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Daniel Kahn Gillmor (DKG) at mic
[10:05:07] Éric Vyncke joins the room
[10:05:32] Roland van Rijswijk-Deij joins the room
[10:05:36] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Stephen Farrell at mic
[10:06:35] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Joe Abley at mic
[10:07:00] Amankin joins the room
[10:07:34] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Karl Henderson at mic
[10:07:52] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Sean Turner at mic
[10:08:08] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Watson Ladd at mic
[10:08:15] Vicky joins the room
[10:08:39] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Ralf Weber at mic
[10:09:36] Eduardo Alvarez joins the room
[10:09:57] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Paul Hoffman at mic
[10:10:02] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Sara Dickinson at mic
[10:10:25] <Tony Finch> i think we should keep open the option to upgrade to quic
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[10:11:06] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Peter van Dijk at mic
[10:12:10] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Manu (?) at mic
[10:12:12] <Tony Finch> i kind of hope that the authentication details can also include a transport hint
[10:12:20] <Brian Haberman> Manu Bretelle
[10:12:34] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Erik Kline at mic
[10:12:40] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Eric Nygren at mic
[10:12:53] <york@jabber.isoc.org> (?) from Google Public DNS at mic
[10:12:57] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Watson Ladd at mic
[10:13:07] nygren joins the room
[10:13:38] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Peter van Dijk at mic
[10:13:51] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Petr Špaček at mic
[10:14:12] <Vladimír Čunát> Yes, DoT now, and quic might be interesting *in future* (or even something else in furter future).
[10:14:23] Suzanne joins the room
[10:14:27] <york@jabber.isoc.org> [Earlier speaker was Puneet Sood from Google Public DNS)
[10:14:34] <york@jabber.isoc.org> DKG at mic
[10:14:42] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Manu Bretelle at mic
[10:14:48] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Stephen Farrell at mic
[10:14:53] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Erik Kline at mic
[10:15:15] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Pieter Lexis at mic
[10:15:57] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Christian Huitema at mic
[10:16:12] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Joe Abley at mic
[10:16:47] <Vladimír Čunát> Q3... putting the ful privacy policy of the resolver into the protocol?
[10:16:49] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Ralf Weber at mic
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[10:17:04] <york@jabber.isoc.org> vladmir - do you want that relayed?
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[10:17:22] <Suzanne> Is it just me, or is this discussion mixing hop-by-hop and end-to-end semantics?
[10:17:22] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Joe abley at mic
[10:17:36] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Matthew Pounsett at mic
[10:17:44] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Wes Hardaker at mic
[10:17:51] <york@jabber.isoc.org> DKG at mic
[10:18:03] <york@jabber.isoc.org> well… he's up after Wes
[10:18:18] <Vladimír Čunát> @york: not necessary, I believe.  It seems most people bring out very simila points.
[10:18:21] weiler joins the room
[10:18:36] <nygren > there has been some discussion on this downgrade communication in HTTPS as well, which is the analog.  https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-richsalz-httpbis-https-downgrade-01  (Using it for visibility to researchers is interesting, but it is likely a deep rathole here.)
[10:18:48] <sftcd> there's an analog in mail, discussion of which was complex too - https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-uta-smtp-require-tls-07
[10:19:32] liman joins the room
[10:19:58] <sftcd> ISOC are our overlords? :-)
[10:20:18] <Roland van Rijswijk-Deij> Operation DNS Overlord :-D
[10:20:19] <Brian Haberman> @sftcd: Rhetorical question?
[10:20:24] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Dan York at mic
[10:20:47] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Petr Špaček at mic
[10:21:06] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Eliot Lear at mic
[10:21:31] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Eric Rescorla (EKR) at mic
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[10:21:44] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Brian Dickson at mic
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[10:22:30] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Sara Dickinson at mic
[10:24:01] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Stephen Farrell at mic
[10:25:07] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Paul Hoffman
[10:25:11] <york@jabber.isoc.org> at mic
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[10:25:59] <york@jabber.isoc.org> EKR at mic
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[10:26:53] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Stephen Farrell at mic
[10:27:34] <Pieter Lexis (PowerDNS)> Dan York himself at the mike
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[10:29:57] sftcd disagrees with Dan, there're pointers in the mailing list, can add one to WG tracker page too
[10:30:45] <york@jabber.isoc.org> EKR at mic
[10:30:50] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Lars Liman at mic
[10:31:50] <york@jabber.isoc.org> sftcd - yes, but publishing a "stub" I-D works will all our existing tools and is a simple and easy way to do it.
[10:31:59] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Keeps it simple and not over-complicated
[10:32:15] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Sara Dickinson now presenting
[10:32:30] <sftcd> meh, but sure, so long as people don't get fixated on debating the I-D text
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[10:32:51] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/slides-104-dprive-rfc-7626bis-00
[10:33:43] <nygren > Mike Bishop gave a tutorial for markdown+github management feeding into I-Ds.  A bunch of other WGs are using it as a way to keep text and discussion in github but snapshot periodically into draft format:  https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/slides-104-edu-sessg-git-github-and-markdown-for-internet-drafts-00
[10:34:23] <york@jabber.isoc.org> sftcd: What? People here would get fixated on text???  :-)  
[10:34:31] <york@jabber.isoc.org> sftcd: I do agree… but I think that can be mitigated by a clear statement in the abstract that says "THIS IS NOT FINAL TEXT. GO HERE <URL> TO DISCUSS THIS TEXT"
[10:35:09] <sftcd> well, except that needs to be "go <here> to read, send mail to <list> to discuss" but sure
[10:36:53] Martin Thomson joins the room
[10:36:57] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Good point
[10:37:04] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Sara now presenting on https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/slides-104-dprive-operational-bcp-00
[10:38:47] <sftcd> "at rest" on slide 4 there isn't quite right - wanna include theats due to logging in server
[10:39:12] <sftcd> mebbe it's there somewhere though
[10:39:40] <york@jabber.isoc.org> EKR at mic
[10:40:39] <Brian Haberman> @sftcd: I read the document as treating "at rest" more generally and encapsulating your point.
[10:40:47] <sftcd> grand so
[10:41:02] <sftcd> and there it is:-)
[10:41:36] <Brian Haberman> @sftcd: anything to satisfy esteemed colleagues. ;)
[10:41:50] <Vladimír Čunát> The "server" may do lots of things under the hood.  It's rarely one server.
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[10:48:27] <york@jabber.isoc.org> EKR at mic
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[10:52:28] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Stephen Farrell at mic
[10:52:56] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Jeff Hodges at mic
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[10:55:41] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Allison Mankin at mic
[10:56:08] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Rich Salz at mic
[10:56:41] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Joe Abley at mic
[10:58:09] <Roland van Rijswijk-Deij> Question for Dan: can we also achieve this with some guidance at the start of the document?
[10:58:21] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Dan York at mic
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[10:58:29] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Christian Huitema at mic
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[10:59:40] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Roland van Rijswijk-Deij: Perhaps… but I think it's two very different audiences. The first half is all for the network operators. The DPPPS stuff is more for people dealing with compliance and legal matters.
[10:59:59] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Alex Mayrhofer at mic
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[11:03:08] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Watson Ladd at mic
[11:03:44] <york@jabber.isoc.org> EKR at mic
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[11:05:30] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Vittorio Bertola presenting Recommendations for DOH Clients - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/slides-104-dprive-doh-clients-bcp-00
[11:05:31] Jonathan Reed Reed joins the room
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[11:10:30] <york@jabber.isoc.org> EKR at mic
[11:12:47] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Stephen Farrell at mic
[11:13:21] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Martin Thomson at mic
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[11:15:01] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Stéphane Bortzmeyer at mic
[11:17:04] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Sara Dickinson at mic
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[11:18:18] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Watson Ladd at mic
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[11:20:20] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Manu Bretelle presenting about "DoT For Insecure Delegations" - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/slides-104-dprive-dot-for-insecure-delegations-01
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[11:26:33] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Paul Hoffman at mic
[11:26:51] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Joe Abley at mic
[11:28:03] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Watson Ladd at mic
[11:28:54] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Peter van Dijk at mic
[11:29:49] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Wes Hardaker at mic
[11:30:56] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Ralf Weber at mic
[11:31:23] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Alex Mayrhofer at mic
[11:33:46] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Tulasi Reddy presenting https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/slides-104-dprive-bootstrap-dns-servers-01
[11:34:26] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Draft: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-dprive-bootstrap-dns-server-02
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[11:36:11] <sftcd> this is the "please own me" protocol?
[11:36:18] <york@jabber.isoc.org> DKG at mic
[11:37:10] <york@jabber.isoc.org> EKR at mic
[11:37:59] <Tony Finch> what does EST stand for again? (I can't find the expansion in the draft)
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[11:39:06] <sftcd> enrollment over secure transport (RFC7030)
[11:39:12] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Tony - I believe it is this: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8295
[11:39:16] <Éric Vyncke> Enrollment over Secure Transport
[11:39:18] <Tony Finch> thanks!
[11:39:34] <Éric Vyncke> Or at the bottom of the displayed slide ;)
[11:40:19] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Tony - I'm wrong. 8295 was an extension to 7030
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[11:40:26] <york@jabber.isoc.org> MCR at mic
[11:40:34] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Richard Barnes was at the mic earlier
[11:40:42] <Tony Finch> D'oH
[11:40:56] <Peter van Dijk> who was the person with the hat at the mic?
[11:41:09] <york@jabber.isoc.org> MCR and EKR debating at the mic … if DKG joins them it will be a battle of the acronyms
[11:41:10] <Brian Haberman> Michael Richardson
[11:41:18] <Peter van Dijk> thanks
[11:41:22] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Peter van Dijk: MCR = Michael Richardson
[11:41:46] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Watson Ladd at mic
[11:42:39] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Warren Kumari at mic
[11:43:04] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Okay… Stephen Farrell at mic BEFORE Warren
[11:43:28] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Now, Warren
[11:43:34] <Brian Haberman> @Dan: Yeah, everyone mixes up Stephen and Warren. ;)
[11:43:37] <Martin Thomson> if the device is "controlled", use that control to change the resolver...
[11:43:51] <sftcd> we're quite similar, he's just happier
[11:43:58] <york@jabber.isoc.org> :-D
[11:44:12] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Paul Wouters at mic
[11:44:13] <Suzanne> warren is just happier than most people, not just Stephen
[11:44:32] <york@jabber.isoc.org> @Brian Haberman - yeah, you guys messed me up with jumping to the back mic ;-)
[11:45:00] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Matthew Pounsett at mic
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[11:47:47] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Richard Barnes at mic
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[11:51:09] <Hugh Dixon> how many was that ?
[11:51:15] <Roland van Rijswijk-Deij> on both counts
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[11:52:32] <sftcd> i saw a few who'd read (maybe 5-6) and zero who thought it in scope but I didn't look all over the room
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[11:52:49] <Roland van Rijswijk-Deij> thanks Stephen
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