IETF
dprive@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, July 18, 2017< ^ >
bortzmeyer has set the subject to: DPRIVE at IETF97
Room Configuration
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GMT+0
[07:10:21] Francis Dupont joins the room
[07:25:14] Karl Henderson joins the room
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[07:32:52] <Karl Henderson> At this point, I have no audio or video - anyone else?
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[07:34:27] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Hello there
[07:34:34] <york@jabber.isoc.org> I'll be jabber scribing
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[07:34:40] <TedLemon> Do you need us to send mail to the NOC, Karl?
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[07:34:44] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Do we have anyone remote?
[07:35:02] <Karl Henderson> I'm remote
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[07:35:16] <york@jabber.isoc.org> @Meetecho - did you see Karl's message above?
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[07:35:18] <Karl Henderson> I had audio and video for a while
[07:35:38] york@jabber.isoc.org has set the subject to: DPRIVE at IETF99
[07:35:45] <Meetecho> Karl Henderson: did they go away after some time and never recover?
[07:35:52] <Karl Henderson> Then just cut out and I only see the Meetecho screen
[07:36:07] <Karl Henderson> Yes
[07:36:21] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Karl - so you still have no audio or video?
[07:36:29] <Karl Henderson> correct
[07:36:31] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Paul Hoffman was at the mic
[07:36:48] <Meetecho> I seem to see no streams associated to you in the server logs, have you tried rejoining?
[07:36:56] Yueqiao Xu joins the room
[07:36:56] <tale > Stephane @ mic
[07:37:10] <Karl Henderson> Will try
[07:37:19] Karl Henderson leaves the room
[07:37:21] <tale > Francis Dupont
[07:37:25] Karl Henderson joins the room
[07:37:26] <tale > (paging @dyork)
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[07:37:59] <york@jabber.isoc.org> :-) Thanks @tale
[07:38:03] bakary DIARRA joins the room
[07:38:33] <Meetecho> Karl Henderson: looks like your browser isn't gathering candidates for WebRTC connectivity
[07:38:38] <tale > Two drafts
[07:38:39] Suzanne joins the room
[07:38:44] <Meetecho> maybe an issue with the browser, e.g., stuck in between updates
[07:38:49] <Meetecho> restarting the browser may help
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[07:40:24] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Materials for today's meeting can be found at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/99/materials#dprive
[07:40:38] Kurt Andersen joins the room
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[07:40:58] <Meetecho> Karl Henderson: mh, still the same thing, are you using Chrome, and have you enabled the "Prevent WebRTC IP leakage" option?
[07:41:07] <Meetecho> (or similar name)
[07:41:13] <Karl Henderson> I'm using Chrome
[07:41:25] <Karl Henderson> I just bounced the browser
[07:41:32] <Karl Henderson> I'm now getting audio only
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[07:43:38] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Alex now presenting these slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-dprive-draft-ietf-dprive-padding-policy-00.pdf
[07:43:38] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Hmmm... I'm getting a big lag in posting
[07:43:49] Gabor Bajko joins the room
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[07:45:13] <TedLemon> Network is a bit slow here.
[07:46:20] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Indeed it is quite slow. I'll send a ticket to the NOC
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[07:47:54] <york@jabber.isoc.org> DKG at mic
[07:47:56] <Kurt Andersen> Extremely slow this morning :-(
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[07:49:46] <york@jabber.isoc.org> FYI - you can send tickets to the NOC via tickets@meeting.ietf.org
[07:49:46] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Christian Huitema at the mic
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[07:50:18] <york@jabber.isoc.org> DKG back at mic
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[07:54:15] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Christian Huitema at the mic
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[07:59:14] <york@jabber.isoc.org> DKG at mic
[07:59:24] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Shane Kerr will be next at mic
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[07:59:50] <Karl Henderson> @Meetecho - installed Firefox and now get audio and video
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[08:02:01] <Dennis Kort> @karl uBlock Origin in Chrome was preventing WebRTC to work for me (even if Meetecho was whitelisted)
[08:03:53] <york@jabber.isoc.org> DKG at mic arguing about size
[08:03:53] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Stephane Bortzmeyer at mic
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[08:06:43] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Who is willing to review the draft?  (People in the room saying they will)
[08:06:43] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Wes Hardaker at mic
[08:06:52] <york@jabber.isoc.org> DKG at mic
[08:07:40] <tale > Anyone else getting terrible wifi performance?  Any better on another ssid?
[08:07:52] <tale > (I'm on @ietf)
[08:08:00] <york@jabber.isoc.org> "in a LaTex-y form of paper"... words probably only spoken at an IETF meeting
[08:08:17] Karl Henderson joins the room
[08:08:20] <york@jabber.isoc.org> @tale - I'm on "ietf" and getting poor performance
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[08:08:57] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Next presentatoin
[08:09:15] <york@jabber.isoc.org> s/presentatoin/presentation/
[08:09:26] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Christian Huitema talking about "DNS over QUIC"
[08:09:29] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-dprive-dns-over-quic-01.pdf
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[08:10:37] <Karl Henderson> @dennis Thanks - installed Firefox then had to reboot - now all good :-/
[08:10:54] Moritz Muller joins the room
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[08:18:39] <Peter van Dijk> wifi feels better now
[08:21:02] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Does seem faster now
[08:21:11] <Peter van Dijk> not great, but usable now
[08:21:18] <york@jabber.isoc.org> And web pages are loading faster
[08:21:21] <york@jabber.isoc.org> PHB at mic
[08:22:13] Alexandra Kulikova joins the room
[08:25:51] <york@jabber.isoc.org> (?) at mic  (missed his name)
[08:26:07] <dkg> subodh iyengar
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[08:26:16] <dkg> (from facebook)
[08:26:59] <york@jabber.isoc.org> @dkg - thanks!
[08:27:14] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Ian Swett at mic
[08:28:50] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Ben Schwartz at mic
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[08:29:51] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Alex Mayrhofer at mic
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[08:30:46] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Ah, yes... just the mere mention of "DNS over HTTP" gets the mic line going... ;-)
[08:31:02] <dkg> that's why it's called "d'oh!"
[08:31:12] <Peter van Dijk> lol
[08:31:13] <dkg> or rather "D'oH!"
[08:31:15] <york@jabber.isoc.org> HA!!!
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[08:32:05] <york@jabber.isoc.org> NOW, Alex is at the mic
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[08:33:05] <york@jabber.isoc.org> (General laughter in the room when Alex points out that the slide title actually says "QUIC over DNS" instead of what was meant: "DNS over QUIC")
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[08:33:47] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Subodh Iyengar at mic
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[08:35:13] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Andrew Sullivan at mic
[08:35:17] netwerkeddude@gmail.com had been wondering about that quic-over-dns slide title.....
[08:37:21] <york@jabber.isoc.org> There's a T-shirt slogan waiting there...
[08:38:12] <Kal Feher> DNS: All ur transports R belong to us
[08:38:17] <netwerkeddude@gmail.com> lol
[08:38:43] <netwerkeddude@gmail.com> well, i thot perhaps it was referring to the actual run-any-prot-over-dns hack from way back….
[08:40:11] <sftcd> unbound from ubuntu 17.04 to ietf dprive server seems to be working with a bit of manual messing about for me - thanks!
[08:40:39] <dkg> sftcd: i'm using stubby against it and it seems to be working for me too
[08:41:14] <york@jabber.isoc.org> PHB at mic
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[08:45:19] <york@jabber.isoc.org> By the way, info about the DPRIVE experiment at IETF 99 is here: https://tickets.meeting.ietf.org/wiki/IETF99Experiments
[08:45:41] <Mark Andrews> 64 k is the limit
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[08:46:14] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Olafur Gudmundsson at mic
[08:46:33] <weiler> (philosophizing….)
[08:46:37] <Peter van Dijk> @marka indeed
[08:46:59] <Peter van Dijk> @marka although that follows from UDP, and the way we do DNS over TCP, which both say nothing about QUIC
[08:47:15] <york@jabber.isoc.org> David Lawrence at mic
[08:47:58] <Mark Andrews> TCP Query is single message with a 2 byte length
[08:48:18] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Alex Mayrhofer at mic
[08:48:29] <Mark Andrews> unless you fallback to AXFR and extract the RRset from that stream
[08:48:33] <york@jabber.isoc.org> This *is* one way to fill the 2.5 hours! ;-)
[08:48:38] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Chairs have closed the mic line
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[08:48:58] <Mark Andrews> or we add "more bit"
[08:49:04] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Stephane Bortzmeyer at mic
[08:49:17] <Peter van Dijk> @marka yes, but all of this says nothing about QUIC :)
[08:50:25] <Mark Andrews> you will still have a UDP/TCP legacy to deal with for decades yet
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[08:50:58] <Peter van Dijk> that legacy won't stop people from abusing larger limits, if they happen, in QUIC
[08:51:30] <Peter van Dijk> for levels of abuse varying from incompetence to malice
[08:51:36] <Andrew Sullivan> I want to note that this discussion impinges on https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-klensin-dns-function-considerations-03 (and conversely)
[08:51:48] <Mark Andrews> Also resolvers aren't designed with terrabyte cache sizes
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[08:52:30] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Andrew Sullivan - want to bring that to the mic?
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[08:53:20] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Alex M back up at the mic
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[08:53:40] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Terry Manderson (glorious AD) at mic
[08:55:05] <york@jabber.isoc.org> NEXT...
[08:55:12] <york@jabber.isoc.org> dkg presenting https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-dprive-draft-dkg-dprive-demux-dns-http-00.pdf
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[08:58:17] <Andrew Sullivan> The Internet died a little today.
[08:58:53] <york@jabber.isoc.org> And the line starts, of course...
[08:59:53] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Christian Huitema at mic
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[09:03:14] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Artem Gavrichenkov at mic
[09:05:05] <york@jabber.isoc.org> PHB at mic
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[09:07:26] <york@jabber.isoc.org> (And the chairs thought we'd have a short meeting.......... ;-) )
[09:07:55] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Shane Kerr at mic
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[09:09:00] <Andrew Sullivan> I think that it is a fine thing to publish an informational document to outline the More Ways that https is the new waist
[09:09:10] <Peter van Dijk> +1
[09:09:14] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Martin Thomson at mic
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[09:09:50] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Pat McManus at mic
[09:11:05] <york@jabber.isoc.org> ekr at mic
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[09:14:44] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Andrew Sullivan at mic
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[09:17:39] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Ben Schwartz at mic
[09:17:50] <york@jabber.isoc.org> (chairs have closed the mic line - after the people in it)
[09:18:26] <york@jabber.isoc.org> PHB at mic
[09:20:10] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Christian Huitema at mic
[09:20:56] <york@jabber.isoc.org> FYI, on the slow wifi issue we had at the start of the session, I got this back from the NOC:
[09:21:00] <york@jabber.isoc.org> ----
[09:21:00] <york@jabber.isoc.org> We confirmed a bunch of packet losses there.  Many devices had associated
with a few APs in Congress Hall 2/3, then radio quality had been bad due
to congestion.
We reconfigure the radio power so that the load is balanced. Now the
quality gets better.
If you still experience bad quality, please let us know.
[09:21:04] <york@jabber.isoc.org> ----
[09:22:13] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Martin Thomson at mic
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[09:24:15] <Andrew Sullivan> But the architectural flaw is not exactly in this example.  The architectural flaw is in the way the Internet exposes all manner of stuff to hostile operators who keep wrecking our toys.
[09:24:46] <Andrew Sullivan> (and I mean "operators" in the broadest sense there — not just network operators)
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[09:25:42] <Andrew Sullivan> Yet another example of an RFC stream that is needed: WCP
[09:25:49] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Quote of the day: ""This was one of the most elaborate and violent threats to the architecture I've seen."
[09:25:56] <Peter van Dijk> WCP?
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[09:26:02] <Suzanne> Or WFP
[09:26:20] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Pau Wouters at mic
[09:26:28] <Andrew Sullivan> Worst Current Practice.  Alternatively, perhaps, WTF, but I will leave the expansion for the Gentle Reader
[09:27:14] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Tim W back up at the mic as chair
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[09:28:04] <york@jabber.isoc.org> On last slide (8) of https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-dprive-chairs-slides-00.pdf
[09:28:10] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Sara Dickinson at mic
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[09:28:23] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Go to https://dnsprivacy.org/wiki/
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[09:29:58] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Shane Kerr at mic
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[09:33:27] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Sara Dickinson at mic
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[09:34:16] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Ben Schwartz at mic
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[09:35:29] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Alex Mayrhofer at mic
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[09:36:56] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Terry Manderson at mic
[09:37:49] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Shane Kerr at mic
[09:39:20] <Moritz Müller> Dan York at mic ;)
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[09:40:02] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Alex M at mic
[09:40:30] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Sara at mic
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[09:41:35] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Stephane Bortzmeyer at mic
[09:42:53] <york@jabber.isoc.org> dkg at mic
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[09:44:19] <york@jabber.isoc.org> (?) at mic
[09:44:33] <Moritz Müller> (Giovane Moura)
[09:45:31] <york@jabber.isoc.org> Thanks
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[09:45:34] <york@jabber.isoc.org> And with that, we're done...
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