- Monday, November 2, 2015

dprive@jabber.ietf.org

Monday, November 2, 2015< ^ >

dkg has set the subject to: IETF Hackathon DNS privacy and security team, hijacking the channel from DPRIVE at IETF94

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[08:10:52] <Ted.h> /subject DPRIVE
[08:10:58] <Ted.h> well, that didn't work.
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[08:11:08] Ted.h has set the subject to: DPRIVE
[08:11:20] <tjw.ietf > Thanks Ted for that bit of IT
[08:11:21] <bortzmeyer> Ted.h: done, it seems
[08:11:38] <Peter van Dijk> Meetecho: I cannot open the dprive remote participation site, it keeps saying 'Missing working group'
[08:11:40] <tjw.ietf > Jabber Scribe is Allison/Tim; Minutes is Shane
[08:12:04] Mankin, Allison joins the room
[08:12:25] I just linked from http://www.ietf.org/meeting/94/remote-participation.html
[08:12:30] <Mankin, Allison> Agenda bashing - no changes
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[08:12:35] <Mankin, Allison> Status slide
[08:12:44] to get into meetecho
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[08:12:58] <Mankin, Allison> Can people hear Warren? - his voice is very soft in the room?
[08:13:06] <Ted.h> Fairly soft
[08:13:09] <Meetecho> Peter van Dijk: let me check that
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[08:13:15] audio is fine
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[08:13:31] <Peter van Dijk> Meetecho: working now after 5 tries
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[08:13:55] <tjw.ietf > @shane - etherpad can be your friend: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/dprive/minutes
[08:13:57] <Mankin, Allison> Discussion of the need for people to read and review
[08:14:00] <Meetecho> I guess it redirected you to a page without the WG name in the query string, and so it was asking you for it
[08:14:05] <Meetecho> sorry about that
[08:14:15] <Peter van Dijk> Meetecho: yes, but entering the wg name also failed, looks like a bug maybe
[08:14:17] <Mankin, Allison> DNSoDTLS draft is up now. Presenter: Dan Wing
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[08:20:05] <bortzmeyer> The draft Shane Kerr was talking about http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-muks-dns-message-fragments/
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[08:23:16] <Andrew Sullivan> re: what Paul just said about server marshalling: if they're not gonna be able to marshal the data correctly because that's too hard, they're sure as heck not going to be able to implement this fragmentation trick
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[08:24:20] <Meetecho> just as a FYI for remote attendees, if you have any issue with remote audio or video, just mention us and we'll be automatically alerted so that we can look into it
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[08:27:21] <Mankin, Allison> DNSoTLS topic over - WG chairs do not call for any hums
[08:27:35] <Mankin, Allison> s/DNSoTLS/DNSoDTLS/
[08:27:45] <Mankin, Allison> next up DNS-over-TLS. Duane Wessels presents
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[08:31:50] <Mankin, Allison> Duane wraps Draft Status, Sara Dickinson up now to talk about Implementation Status (DNS-over-TLS)
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[08:37:14] <Mankin, Allison> Duane Wessels returns to lead Discussion section on DNS-over-TLS
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[08:37:58] <bortzmeyer> "pared down"? What does it mean?
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[08:38:08] <Andrew Sullivan> "removed extra bits"
[08:38:18] <Andrew Sullivan> But I'm not sure which bits were intended
[08:38:21] <Ted.h> pare is similar to "cut back"
[08:38:57] <Mankin, Allison> Chairs - discussion of document fragmentation
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[08:39:37] <Mankin, Allison> Speaker at mic's name is: Wolfgang Beck DTAG
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[08:41:21] <Mankin, Allison> Dan Wing and Sara Dickinson both spoke to agreement about having the separated draft
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[08:42:38] <bortzmeyer> Andrew Sullivan says that the changes are important and may deserve a new WGLC
[08:42:44] <Mankin, Allison> Duane and Sara both address Andrew Sullivan's "process wonk" question about changes during WGLC
[08:44:33] <Mankin, Allison> That was Allison Mankin at the mic for a moment about the changes during WGLC
[08:44:34] <johnh> I think proposed changes are on the order of 3-4 sentences.
[08:45:55] <Mankin, Allison> Christian Huitema at the mic now
[08:45:56] <Andrew Sullivan> Maybe the reason I feel so uncomfortable is that I don't have a clear feeling about what's ok here. I certainly like the idea of breaking this out
[08:47:14] <Mankin, Allison> Sara answered Christian. Christian is speaking again.
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[08:49:34] <Tiru Reddy> hummmmm
[08:50:02] <Mankin, Allison> Warren says he hears this as people being generally supportive of this. Hum for separating the draft into two - strong hum for, no hum against
[08:51:02] <Mankin, Allison> Next up is Witold Kręcicki's talk about stateless encryption
[08:51:11] <Peter van Dijk> i read witold's draft (at previous IETF)
[08:51:24] <johnh> pls repeat presenter's name
[08:51:34] <Mankin, Allison> Mukund (also ISC) is presenting. Question was how many read the draft - a relatively few
[08:51:40] <Peter van Dijk> johnh: Mukund Sivaraman
[08:52:21] <tjw.ietf > @peter.
[08:52:43] meetecho the presentation is pink. possibly a bad vga cable. I get this with the mac at home when there is a bad vga connecection. not urgent but it should be checked
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[08:53:09] <Meetecho> Mark Andrews: it's like that in the room as well, the AV guys in here will look into this later
[08:53:25] <Mankin, Allison> Mukund is speaking in detail but we see only the title slide on the screen
[08:53:52] <Peter van Dijk> Allison: thanks for clarifying that, i was wondering :)
[08:54:17] <Mankin, Allison> Now moving slides - we're on slide 2
[08:54:41] <Peter van Dijk> confirmed on stream
[08:54:58] <Mankin, Allison> Page 4 is up now
[08:56:04] <shane_kerr> Mukund did indeed cover the whole protocol before moving to slide #2. :P
[08:56:17] <Mankin, Allison> It was an extended abstract?
[08:56:25] <shane_kerr> It's so simple, it fits on 0 slides!
[08:56:26] <Andrew Sullivan> apparently so
[08:57:04] <johnh> the i-d (at least -00) follows a similar style, fwiw
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[08:58:48] <Mankin, Allison> Slide title is "defining encryption schemes" (sorry lost track of number)
[08:58:58] <shane_kerr> I can't believe I see a crypto slide that doesn't pimp an EC...
[08:59:13] <Andrew Sullivan> That is super impressive, to admit that you have a bikeshed slide and just skip ot
[08:59:17] <Andrew Sullivan> good job!
[08:59:24] <shane_kerr> It's not Mukund's draft. ;)
[08:59:31] <Mankin, Allison> Skipped over "Naming" and now on "Other Details"
[09:01:43] <Mankin, Allison> Still on Other details but a point not on the slide - this security protocol being new would need to be vetted
[09:03:01] <Mankin, Allison> Ray Bellis, ISC
[09:04:03] It also depend on if you know the server supports the option or not.
[09:04:49] <Mankin, Allison> Do you want this point relayed, Mark?
[09:04:51] <bortzmeyer> Mark Andrews: no, DNSSEC proves the existence or non-existence of the key (DNSENC depends on DNSSEC)
[09:05:12] <bortzmeyer> Mark Andrews: a non-validating resolver cannot run DNSENC
[09:05:43] <Witold Krecicki> If the encrypted message is encapsulated as EDNS option you can use cookies to prevent DoS
[09:07:50] <Witold Krecicki> Putting the IP in reverse tree is one of two option - another one is the method with key (or server name) /etc/resolv.conf (or any other file)
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[09:12:47] <Mankin, Allison> Turning over the jabber scribing to Tim
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[09:13:10] <tjw.ietf > Allison taking the mic
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[09:13:43] <tjw.ietf > slide 1
[09:14:29] <tjw.ietf > draft -02 is posted, looking for readers.
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[09:15:05] <tjw.ietf > Maybe the WG does not need this document?
[09:15:21] <tjw.ietf > slide 3 - Main Difference
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[09:15:39] <explorer> Re the “forward security” issue: From what I get, is a new key is somehow securely transmitted to the client. How? That’s the question someone asked. (Living in the past)
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[09:16:00] <tjw.ietf > slide 4
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[09:16:16] <tjw.ietf > slide 5
[09:16:33] <tjw.ietf > Question : shoudl this WG adopt this draft?
[09:16:51] <tjw.ietf > Question: Can it be submitted to fulfill the charter's eval deliverable?
[09:17:10] <Andrew Sullivan> Since nobody seems to have read it, can we decide whether to adopt?
[09:17:16] <tjw.ietf > no, we can not.
[09:17:20] <Andrew Sullivan> (I support adoption, but still.)
[09:17:28] <tjw.ietf > I think the question if we should even pursue w/out readers
[09:17:35] <bortzmeyer> Andrew Sullivan: I've read it. Warren's question was "who have read it SINCE THE LAST MEETING"
[09:17:44] <Andrew Sullivan> yes
[09:17:46] <tjw.ietf > Oh yes. he did
[09:18:03] <tjw.ietf > I think now that I've commented it's worthy of support of adoption?
[09:18:05] <Andrew Sullivan> but last time there were four readers, also
[09:18:25] <tjw.ietf > Paul Hoffman. Sara, Wendy, Andrew, Ted Hardie, Benno will review
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[09:19:00] <Tiru Reddy> hummmmm
[09:19:03] <tjw.ietf > Stephane also
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[09:21:36] <Mankin, Allison> Allison is back jabber scribing - there was a start on a hum about adoption, but Andrew Sullivan objected and the adoption question is delayed until there are reviews
[09:21:53] <tjw.ietf > I think I noted all the reviewers
[09:21:56] <tjw.ietf > Paul Hoffman. Sara, Wendy, Andrew, Ted Hardie, Benno, and Stephane
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[09:22:46] <Mankin, Allison> Next up is Dan Wing talking about draft-wing-dprive-profile-and-msg-flows-00
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[09:22:56] <Mankin, Allison> He is now on slide 3
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[09:23:50] <Mankin, Allison> Allison Mankin asked about the security evaluation of a heartbeat
[09:24:07] <Peter van Dijk> I have a weirdly late question - are the slides actually online somewhere?
[09:24:18] <Mankin, Allison> Christian Huitema, Microsoft, is at the mic now
[09:24:19] <Andrew Sullivan> yes, they are
[09:24:41] <tjw.ietf > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/94/materials.html
[09:24:47] <tjw.ietf > search for dprive
[09:24:59] <Peter van Dijk> ah! thanks
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[09:25:17] <Andrew Sullivan> others are faster at cutting and pasting than I. Thanks
[09:25:26] <Mankin, Allison> Eric Rescorla Mozilla is at the mic
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[09:31:05] <Mankin, Allison> Dan Wing because of Sara Dickinson's question asks Ekr if it would be a good item in the TLS WG, and Ekr says he hasn't read it yet
[09:32:03] <Mankin, Allison> Warren answers Paul Hoffman
[09:32:24] <Mankin, Allison> The referenced workshop about TLS 1.3 is TRON
[09:32:55] <Mankin, Allison> It is planned in Feb
[09:33:53] <Mankin, Allison> Four people raise there hands to Warren's question about who read the draft. Three people signed up to read it
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[09:33:56] <tjw.ietf > Ecker, Sara, Christian signed up
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[09:34:40] <Mankin, Allison> Warren is talking - he returns to the Chairs' overview deck and is on slide 8
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[09:35:06] <tjw.ietf > Ecker, Christan and allison will review DTLS draft
[09:35:09] <tjw.ietf > dkg !
[09:35:30] <tjw.ietf > Stephane add to DTLS draft
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[09:35:59] <Mankin, Allison> Warren moved to slide 9
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[09:37:32] mic: and lack of trust of recursive servers
[09:38:05] <Mankin, Allison> OK, Mark
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[09:38:38] <Mankin, Allison> DKG says bring draft-mayrhofer-edns-padding into this draft
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[09:40:35] <Mankin, Allison> Tim W is speaking at the room mic - without his chair hat?
[09:40:49] <Ted.h> That's what that usually means
[09:40:52] <Ted.h> "from the floor"
[09:41:11] <Mankin, Allison> OK
[09:41:20] <tjw.ietf > no hat, just hair
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[09:44:49] <tjw.ietf > Is Mr. mayrhofer in the room?
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[09:45:39] <tjw.ietf > But I do think we should do some performance testing
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[09:46:06] and sake
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[09:46:11] <Mankin, Allison> Discussion of whether there is beer awaiting people - answer: somewhere. Ending the meeting
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[09:46:16] <Yuji Suga> TRON Workshop Call For Papers "TLSv1.3 - Ready or Not?" https://www.internetsociety.org/events/ndss-symposium-2016/tron-workshop-call-papers Workshop date: 2016-02-21 (co-located with NDSS 2016)
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[14:58:47] wseltzer joins the room
[15:08:15] Benno Overeinder joins the room
[15:12:44] Benno Overeinder leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[15:26:12] Benno Overeinder joins the room
[15:27:20] eyeofthenico leaves the room
[15:27:23] eyeofthenico joins the room
[15:39:44] Suzanne joins the room
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[15:48:03] Benno Overeinder leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[15:57:02] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[16:02:58] eyeofthenico leaves the room
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[16:03:38] tale leaves the room
[16:04:47] Aaron Falk leaves the room
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[17:07:37] eyeofthenico joins the room
[17:34:36] eyeofthenico leaves the room
[17:35:06] eyeofthenico joins the room
[17:39:19] eyeofthenico leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[17:39:21] eyeofthenico joins the room
[18:48:33] eyeofthenico leaves the room
[18:48:37] eyeofthenico joins the room
[18:51:04] eyeofthenico leaves the room
[18:51:11] eyeofthenico joins the room
[19:08:56] eyeofthenico leaves the room
[19:11:12] eyeofthenico joins the room
[19:17:26] eyeofthenico leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[19:17:28] eyeofthenico joins the room
[19:37:38] eyeofthenico leaves the room
[19:41:05] eyeofthenico joins the room
[20:53:07] eyeofthenico leaves the room
[20:53:15] eyeofthenico joins the room
[21:19:41] eyeofthenico leaves the room
[21:36:23] Jinmei Tatuya joins the room
[21:48:08] eyeofthenico joins the room
[21:50:50] explorer leaves the room
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[22:00:41] bortzmeyer joins the room
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[22:23:55] Ted.h joins the room
[22:31:28] Aaron Falk leaves the room
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[23:00:35] bortzmeyer joins the room
[23:07:30] Ted.h leaves the room
[23:27:59] Aaron Falk leaves the room
[23:45:15] bortzmeyer leaves the room
[23:50:28] Jinmei Tatuya leaves the room