Friday, July 30, 2021< ^ >
meetecho-alexamirante has set the subject to: DNSOP at IETF 111
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

[00:00:07] <sftcd> was that code space "given" or didn't the IETF just adopt it?
[00:00:10] <Olaf Kolkman_web_216> I agree with Wes
[00:00:32] <Jim Reid_web_593> +1 with Wes & Olaf
[00:00:38] <Michael StJohns_web_102> Shades of MPLS
[00:00:44] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> well then I'm +1 with Jim :)
[00:00:58] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> Michael, also reminds me of VRRP and CARP, although one party there was not a standards organisation
[00:01:21] <Harald Alvestrand_web_686> is a complete squat. We never had a formal delegation of "our" OID space.
[00:01:31] <Vittorio Bertola_web_362> My biggest concern with ISO's reply is not that they say that these codes could be used for something else in the future; that's always possible for everything. I am more concerned by the fact that they say that these codes are only meant for use by a country or country-like entity. That rules out our intended use.
[00:01:39] <Michael StJohns_web_102>
[00:01:48] <Harald Alvestrand_web_686> thanks!
[00:02:11] <Michael StJohns_web_102> And actually, there was some agreement... DDN knew it was happening and it was approved in the various contracts
[00:02:11] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> the first useful google hit on oid is Harald's site :D
[00:02:29] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> (the hit is for, luckily)
[00:02:35] <Michael StJohns_web_102> Defense Data Network for those just joining us
[00:02:41] <Jim Reid_web_593> Vittorio, ISO has not responded. Our LIaison has given us an update. ISO isn't going to say anything officially.
[00:03:30] Benjamin Schwartz_web_280 joins the room
[00:03:37] <Vittorio Bertola_web_362> So our liaison's update is the most authoritative reply we'll ever get, and we have to stick to it.
[00:04:17] <Harald Alvestrand_web_686> +1 warren
[00:05:08] <sftcd> is there a list of already-(ab)used labels ?
[00:05:15] <Olaf Kolkman_web_216> "MUST NOT"/"SHALL NOT" if we do such a document we should plaster it with that language.
[00:05:22] <Geoff Huston_web_807> this does not have a home and DNSOP whould drop it
[00:05:26] <John Levine_web_672> @sftcd pretty much all of them
[00:05:27] <Paul Wouters_web_365> i wish people did not take it to this list. Maybe a BOF? :P
[00:05:31] <Geoff Huston_web_807> There Joe, I said it.
[00:05:36] <John Levine_web_672> corp home mail are famous ones but it doesn't stop there
[00:05:57] <Peter van Dijk_web_734>
[00:05:58] <Erik Kline_web_931> @sftcd: page 8 (actual page 9) perhaps?
[00:05:59] <Olaf Kolkman_web_216> @geoff... this doesn't have a .HOME ;-)
[00:06:26] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> +1 to stop it
[00:06:27] <Geoff Huston_web_807> .aaarrrggghhh Olaf
[00:06:39] <Jim Reid_web_593> Why should the IETF document how other orgs are mis-using "reserved" 3166 codes?
[00:06:39] <Nigel Hickson_web_838> Agree re transparency
[00:06:48] <Warren Kumari_web_769> @sftcd: Yes, some more than others -- home, corp, mail are very well know. Here are some more:
[00:06:53] Weiqiang Cheng_web_766 leaves the room
[00:06:55] <Eric Orth_web_171> I don't think we should publish anything in this subject unless it says "don't do it" or "do this instead".
[00:06:57] <Wes Hardaker_web_308> @jim in part because we started it.
[00:06:57] Weiqiang Cheng_web_239 joins the room
[00:07:18] <Michael StJohns_web_102> I had a talk with Jon once about the country codes - he drew a line in the sand about delegating a code unless it was a) in the ISO registry and b) had a nation state behind it.  That was the only way to stay out of the politics of what qualified as a country
[00:07:40] <Donald Eastlake_web_547> Seems like if the document says that ISO says they may assign one or more of these to countries in the future! That should be a good warning to people.
[00:07:57] <Paul Wouters_web_365> @Peter: draft-dnsop-harder-faster-stop-it.tlds-in-dnsop
[00:08:04] <sftcd> *those* are being abused
[00:08:07] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> -die-die-die
[00:08:12] <Jim Reid_web_593> Wes, I said at the time the ID shouldn't do that - in case those organisations changed their practice => updating the RFC.
[00:08:25] Éric Vyncke_web_254 leaves the room
[00:09:05] Weiqiang Cheng_web_239 leaves the room
[00:09:14] Weiqiang Cheng_web_261 joins the room
[00:09:16] <sftcd> sorry my last was corrupted;-) (as am I:-) .home .corp etc aren't 3166 codes, I was only wondering how many 3166 codes were being abused (and will follow the links in a minute)
[00:09:27] <Jim Reid_web_593> Donald, we shouldn't do that. Imagine if ITU or ISO wrote something saying the IETF might assign deprecated type codes or whatever.
[00:09:28] <Warren Kumari_web_769> This is a nice graph from ICANN root, and has the top 30? 50? Its is fun to watch the list change over time.
[00:09:38] <Donald Eastlake_web_547> When RFC 2606 was being developed, at one point it has some "unused" country codes in it and Jon Postel flatly vetoed that. (I am primary author of RFC 2606.)
[00:09:40] <Warren Kumari_web_769> Oh. No, I don't have a live graph....
[00:10:19] <Benjamin Schwartz_web_280> I thought expiration was resolution?
[00:10:27] Weiqiang Cheng_web_261 leaves the room
[00:10:31] Weiqiang Cheng_web_925 joins the room
[00:11:23] <Jim Reid_web_593> @sftcd, I don't recall the reserved 3166 codes showing up in the root zone traffic when I did an ICANN name collision study 8 years ago.
[00:11:31] Weiqiang Cheng_web_925 leaves the room
[00:11:37] Weiqiang Cheng_web_462 joins the room
[00:11:50] John Scudder_web_785 leaves the room
[00:11:52] <Suzanne Woolf_web_770> @sftcd, the lists of "queries to the root servers for non-delegated strings" are available from various root server datasets, Wes alluded to one and I believe there are others.
[00:12:49] Murray Kucherawy_web_475 joins the room
[00:13:36] Weiqiang Cheng_web_462 leaves the room
[00:13:40] Weiqiang Cheng_web_490 joins the room
[00:14:29] <Warren Kumari_web_769> I'm finding this a useful / helpful discussion....
[00:14:39] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> same
[00:14:55] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> we should have a serious look at all open documents every meeting - not just those that request agenda time
[00:15:08] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> also +1 on PaulW 'we also suck at killing things'
[00:15:33] <Suzanne Woolf_web_770> @Peter sometimes there are good reasons why a document gets stuck for awhile, but I think that's basically a sound idea
[00:15:40] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> yes, I agree
[00:15:42] Weiqiang Cheng_web_490 leaves the room
[00:15:46] Weiqiang Cheng_web_551 joins the room
[00:15:51] <Paul Wouters_web_365> i mean delegation-only is just waiting on WGLC. and instead we just inbox 0 it. that is not proper procedure
[00:15:57] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> I also have trouble agreeing with Ben that 'expiration = resolution' even it sounds nice on paper
[00:16:10] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> Paul, agreed, many drafts (both good and bad) have just kind of died that way
[00:16:10] <Suzanne Woolf_web_770> We did a cleanup in the datatracker and "killed" some things, this discussion is the second pass
[00:16:36] Armando Faz-Hernández_web_767 leaves the room
[00:17:09] <Joe Abley_web_727> sorry all about the echo while I was rambling on. I have no idea why meetecho hates me.
[00:17:19] <Jim Reid_web_593> @Peter If we had a serious look at all open docs, we'll need *too* many meeting slots. Maybe the co-chairs need speak to the authors and then report to the WG?
[00:17:43] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> Jim, I'd hope that problem to be self-solving by -virtue- of turning out not to scale
[00:17:44] <Andrew Campling_web_494> 2 x 2 hour slots?
[00:17:57] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> but I also agree that this shouldn't lead to us needing more meeting slots
[00:18:00] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> management is hard
[00:18:17] <Tim Wicinski_web_315> "management is hard"  oh yes
[00:18:29] <Jim Reid_web_593> Ever heard of Parkinson's law Peter?
[00:18:30] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> and i'm on the back seat, pretty easy from here!
[00:18:33] <Paul Wouters_web_365> look at how much time a jokingly .zz tld took out of "real draft discusison time"
[00:18:42] Weiqiang Cheng_web_551 leaves the room
[00:18:52] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> Jim, I did not know it was called that, but yes, definitely
[00:19:14] <Warren Kumari_web_769> I'm biased, and suddenly realized that I was lobbying, so I tred to back off...
[00:19:19] <Suzanne Woolf_web_770> @Jim I think a general status check on everything is a good idea, can be a chairs' report to the list before a meeting and then questions/comments as an agenda item
[00:19:25] <Suzanne Woolf_web_770> Like the IAB and IESG have been doing
[00:19:39] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> that makes sense, and sounds quite efficient
[00:20:13] <Jim Reid_web_593> +1 Suzanne. I hope our excellent Dear Leaders can do this at future meetings.
[00:20:46] <Murray Kucherawy_web_475> They're talking about you, Warren.
[00:21:13] <Warren Kumari_web_769> @Murray: ?
[00:21:27] <Joe Abley_web_727> "they". All of them. All the time.
[00:21:42] <Yoshiro Yoneya> This seems WG's charter update discussion, especially milestones. I see no current document on milestones.
[00:21:50] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> Brian, we have no clue what you are asking for
[00:21:57] sftcd same
[00:21:57] <John Levine_web_672> don''t understand either
[00:21:58] <Benjamin Schwartz_web_280> I'm having some difficulty understanding Brian's audio
[00:21:59] <Paul Wouters_web_365> i still dont understand the question
[00:22:05] <Benjamin Schwartz_web_280> I think it's an audio problem
[00:22:06] <Warren Kumari_web_769> Which "it", Brian?
[00:22:11] <Warren Kumari_web_769> The delgation doc?
[00:22:12] <Nigel Hickson_web_838> too unclear for show of hands
[00:22:13] <Mike Bishop_web_902> I believe the request is for a show of hands to decide whether alt-tld should move forward now.
[00:22:20] <Joe Abley_web_727> I think for some clients (possibly me included) there's a delay after clicking unmute before the audio actually starts to send
[00:22:29] <Joe Abley_web_727> I am bad at meetecho
[00:22:34] Eberhard Lisse_web_151 leaves the room
[00:22:39] <Brian Dickson_web_746> Sorry, suggestion was show of hands for support for getting alt-tld unheld
[00:23:31] <Tim Wicinski_web_315> We blame Ralph for everything!
[00:23:35] <Shane Kerr_web_126> Career outside of DNS? Weird.
[00:23:38] <Suzanne Woolf_web_770> @Brian thanks for the suggestion, I think we do want to ask the WG that question, just more useful on the list after we give people a chance to review it.
[00:23:51] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> Shane, he was nice enough to move out of DNS-country for it though
[00:23:52] James Gould_web_743 leaves the room
[00:23:56] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> ;)
[00:24:07] <sftcd> @shane: that'd be a career in .gnu maybe?
[00:24:15] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> sftcd, oh no
[00:24:52] Jim Reid_web_593 leaves the room
[00:25:25] Jim Reid_web_480 joins the room
[00:25:32] <Warren Kumari_web_769> V6OPS tries to focus on a document every N weeks. N==2? something?
[00:25:35] <Benno Overeinder_web_680> @shane, email seems to be fun!
[00:25:46] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> Warren, does it work?
[00:26:07] <Joe Abley_web_727> does v6 work? only if you don't need to fragment.
[00:26:10] Jim Reid_web_480 leaves the room
[00:26:15] Jim Reid_web_256 joins the room
[00:26:23] <Warren Kumari_web_769> Oh. Um... maybe...
[00:26:39] <Warren Kumari_web_769> Actually, yes, but it does require the WG to focus.
[00:26:43] Jasdip Singh_web_849 leaves the room
[00:27:26] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> +1 to that monthly post
[00:27:40] Wataru Ohgai_web_970 leaves the room
[00:27:45] Oliver Borchert_web_884 joins the room
[00:27:51] <George Michaelson_web_507> I want my 3 minutes
[00:28:02] <Vittorio Bertola_web_362> or 3 minutes of my middle of the night
[00:28:17] <sftcd> @george: sorry, I've used 'em already
[00:28:18] Michael StJohns_web_102 leaves the room
[00:28:20] <Marco Davids_web_243> haha, yes 02:28 here ;-)
[00:28:23] Ray Bellis_web_787 leaves the room
[00:28:24] Oliver Borchert_web_884 leaves the room
[00:28:49] <Nigel Hickson_web_838> Thank you
[00:29:22] Daphanie Nisbeth_web_222 leaves the room
[00:29:41] <Shane Kerr_web_126> Zzzzzz
[00:29:41] <sftcd> so the precursor to a bun fight is a doh fight? :-)
[00:29:42] Rebecca Guthrie_web_883 leaves the room
[00:29:42] <Chris Lemmons_web_352> Thank you!
[00:29:43] <Marco Davids_web_243> Thank you!
[00:29:44] <Nigel Hickson_web_838> 01.29 and counting....
[00:29:45] <Avri Doria_web_683> great meeting. really enjoyed it.
[00:29:47] Benjamin Schwartz_web_280 leaves the room
[00:29:47] PE_web_616 leaves the room
[00:29:50] <Joe Abley_web_727> thanks all!
[00:29:50] Yisong Liu_web_105 joins the room
[00:29:50] <David K_web_121> Thanks!
[00:29:53] Shane Kerr_web_126 leaves the room
[00:29:53] Chris Lemmons_web_352 leaves the room
[00:29:55] Jeremiah Androscavage_web_540 leaves the room
[00:29:55] Marco Davids_web_243 leaves the room
[00:29:55] Robert Wilton_web_736 leaves the room
[00:29:55] <Peter van Dijk_web_734> thank you all!
[00:29:56] Warren Kumari_web_769 leaves the room
[00:29:56] Francisco Arias_web_559 leaves the room
[00:29:56] Paul Hoffman_web_906 leaves the room
[00:29:57] Nigel Hickson_web_838 leaves the room
[00:29:57] <Olaf Kolkman_web_216> sleep well
[00:29:57] Joe Abley_web_727 leaves the room
[00:29:57] Zaid AlBanna_web_690 leaves the room
[00:29:58] Donald Eastlake_web_547 leaves the room
[00:29:58] Eric Orth_web_171 leaves the room
[00:29:58] John Levine_web_672 leaves the room
[00:29:59] Murray Kucherawy_web_475 leaves the room
[00:29:59] Wes Hardaker_web_308 leaves the room
[00:29:59] Shumon Huque_web_285 leaves the room
[00:29:59] Gustavo Lozano_web_273 leaves the room
[00:29:59] Tim April_web_224 leaves the room
[00:29:59] Geoff Huston_web_807 leaves the room
[00:29:59] කෙසර රත්නායක_web_764 leaves the room
[00:29:59] Roy Arends_web_986 leaves the room
[00:29:59] Andrew Campling_web_494 leaves the room
[00:30:00] Roman Danyliw_web_702 joins the room
[00:30:01] <Vittorio Bertola_web_362> Hope to see you in person next time :)
[00:30:01] Akira Kato_web_775 leaves the room
[00:30:01] Ulrich Wisser_web_535 leaves the room
[00:30:01] Shinta Sato_web_283 leaves the room
[00:30:01] Hugo Kobayashi_web_894 leaves the room
[00:30:02] Mark Andrews_web_422 leaves the room
[00:30:02] <Tim Wicinski_web_315> Thanks all for the feedback
[00:30:02] Richard Wilhelm_web_219 leaves the room
[00:30:02] Paul Wouters_web_365 leaves the room
[00:30:03] Anna Blasiak_web_763 leaves the room
[00:30:03] Bryan Call_web_843 leaves the room
[00:30:03] Olaf Kolkman_web_216 leaves the room
[00:30:05] Joey Salazar_web_973 leaves the room
[00:30:05] Harald Alvestrand_web_686 leaves the room
[00:30:05] Tim Wicinski_web_315 leaves the room
[00:30:05] Scott Hollenbeck_web_553 leaves the room
[00:30:06] Yoshiro Yoneya_web_841 leaves the room
[00:30:06] <John Woodworth_web_593> thanks everyone!
[00:30:06] Jeff Osborn_web_411 leaves the room
[00:30:06] Erik Kline_web_931 leaves the room
[00:30:07] Corey Bonnell_web_446 leaves the room
[00:30:07] Tommy Jensen_web_496 leaves the room
[00:30:07] Christian Elmerot_web_341 leaves the room
[00:30:09] Mike Bishop_web_902 leaves the room
[00:30:10] Korry Luke_web_749 leaves the room
[00:30:11] <Brian Dickson_web_746> Thanks!
[00:30:11] Allison Mankin_web_591 leaves the room
[00:30:12] David K_web_121 leaves the room
[00:30:12] Vittorio Bertola_web_362 leaves the room
[00:30:12] <George Michaelson_web_507> I shall now stay here for another 3 minutes to prove the point
[00:30:14] Burt Kaliski_web_697 leaves the room
[00:30:15] Jim Reid_web_256 leaves the room
[00:30:15] Pallavi Aras_web_720 leaves the room
[00:30:17] Viktor Dukhovni_web_216 leaves the room
[00:30:17] Vincent Levigneron_web_210 leaves the room
[00:30:17] Kazunori Fujiwara_web_948 leaves the room
[00:30:18] Stephen Farrell_web_805 leaves the room
[00:30:18] Eric Kinnear_web_434 leaves the room
[00:30:21] Michael Breuer_web_322 leaves the room
[00:30:21] Ching-Heng Ku_web_720 leaves the room
[00:30:22] George Michaelson_web_507 leaves the room
[00:30:25] Puneet Sood_web_882 leaves the room
[00:30:25] Suzanne Woolf_web_770 leaves the room
[00:30:26] Yisong Liu_web_105 leaves the room
[00:30:29] <sftcd> I plan to outwait ya:-)
[00:30:29] Brian Dickson_web_746 leaves the room
[00:30:30] Roman Danyliw_web_702 leaves the room
[00:30:33] Lars Eggert_web_918 leaves the room
[00:30:33] John Woodworth_web_593 leaves the room
[00:30:35] Peter van Dijk_web_734 leaves the room
[00:30:39] Yoshiro Yoneya leaves the room
[00:30:49] Ralf Weber_web_329 leaves the room
[00:30:51] <Benno Overeinder_web_680> Thanks for the useful feedback.  DNSOP WG is the best.  :-)
[00:30:52] <Avri Doria_web_683> i  alwasy stay to watch the credits to the end.
[00:30:54] Lorenzo Miniero_web_329 leaves the room
[00:30:55] Takahiro Nemoto_web_256 leaves the room
[00:31:02] Sanjay Mishra_web_884 leaves the room
[00:31:07] PuneetS leaves the room: Disconnected: BOSH client silent for over 60 seconds
[00:31:13] Meetecho leaves the room
[00:31:14] David Smith_web_851 leaves the room
[00:31:39] <sftcd> THE END
[00:32:44] Jason Weil_web_633 leaves the room
[00:32:47] Benno Overeinder_web_680 leaves the room
[00:32:59] Hugo Salgado_web_957 leaves the room
[00:33:10] Matthew Quick_web_427 leaves the room
[00:33:10] David Lawrence_web_883 leaves the room
[00:33:10] Avri Doria_web_683 leaves the room
[00:33:10] Duane Wessels_web_372 leaves the room
[00:33:10] Alessandro Amirante_web_229 leaves the room
[00:33:10] Chris Box_web_757 leaves the room
[00:33:10] Stuart Cheshire_web_675 leaves the room
[00:33:10] Erik Nygren_web_604 leaves the room
[00:33:10] Yuji Koyama_web_171 leaves the room
[00:53:53] meetecho-alexamirante leaves the room
[01:36:31] tale leaves the room
[02:38:18] tale joins the room
[02:38:22] tale leaves the room
[14:02:42] nygren leaves the room
[14:20:56] tale joins the room
[14:29:17] tale leaves the room
[14:29:25] tale joins the room
[14:41:26] tale leaves the room
[14:42:07] tale joins the room
[14:42:15] tale leaves the room
[14:42:40] tale joins the room
[14:42:48] tale leaves the room
[15:58:28] tale joins the room
[20:35:07] fightingnemo leaves the room
[21:05:05] tale leaves the room
[21:47:28] tale joins the room
Powered by ejabberd - robust, scalable and extensible XMPP server Powered by Erlang Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional Valid CSS!